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[Frumyfrenzy]

Interesting stuff.

[Barbarossa2010]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But that does reduce the possibility of the two collaborating. So maybe the Wardens just sent whatever research notes they found to Avernus. But I still find it a bit weird that the Architect has studied untapped Warden power. All he needs is resistance to the taint really. What Avernus suggests is that the Architect was interested in untapped Warden power. Unless he wanted to empower Utha? Curious.

I was very interested in Avernus' research and way back in my rant stage, post DA:O, I had mentioned to Gaider that I personally thought his was one of the most interesting story threads I had run across in the game (well...beside Morrigan's story of course), given the implications of what his research could accomplish.  This was one of two examples I used to argue for a direct sequel, the other being a continuation of the story with our favorite swamp witch and her mother.

Regarding Avernus, I was appalled at his methods, but found it difficult to condemn him given the circumstances, not to mention being extremely intrigued with the possibilities of what his findings could yield.  I also thought that the sacrifices made in the past would have been in vain, if simple justice were to be executed on the spot; so I, like a few others above, bound him to the Keep and admonished him to conduct ethical research and report back when he had something.  I spared the Architect in Awakenings for many of the same reasons, but primarily because I didn't sense any real malice in him, that we very likely had common cause, and that he might prove a useful ally (even if temporary) in an uncertain future.

When I went back through and re-read the Codex entry from Act 1, I get the impression that Avernus had no direct collaboration with the Architect and that the Warden very likely just sent his research material to Avernus.  Of course, that is merely one player's interpretation of a short Codex entry.

"...However, the information sent about the Architect has proven invaluable to my efforts, and I am pleased to report limited success.  As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable."

I really would like to speak to Avernus again.  Chalk that up as yet another reason I want my Warden back...but I digress.  I personally don't think this is the last we will hear of the Architect (at least, the Disciples) or Avernus.

And yes, it is very possible to be allied with someone and still think them dangerous.  A desperate common cause can make for strange allies indeed.

[Foolsfolly]

Ok, I just read KnightofPhoenix's original post (KOP's great always. Thanks for posting on the site, dude).

But I have to say one thing. That statue at the end of the Deep Road art does not look like the Architect, at least to me. It looks like the statues you find in the Tevinter/Elf cave from the Dalish Origin. Tamlen looks at one and says that it's one of their gods.

At least, that's where my mind went to when I saw it. And Witch Hunt does have the reveal that the Dwarves and Elves lived together for some period of time.

[KnightofPhoenix]

jabajack wrote...

Could the research be linked with the corrupted lyrium? We know that Bartrand went mad due to the song he heard from the idol and both darkspawn and Wardens (at the end when the corruption would turn them into ghouls) hear it. Maybe it is possible that Avernus found information that could allude to the origin of the darkspawn and the taint.

Considering Morrigans warnings, Bethany/Carver/Stroud's statement of a more pressing matter than Qunari and our Warden disappearing it makes sense that the implications of the fifth blight are not over.

Since the idol turned out to be that important and we practically know nothing about it, I personally would not mind exploring it via this avenue. Would have preferred more hints in the game itself, but what can you do. 
But yea, song is a recurring theme in DA, vis a vis Old Gods, Lyrium and Andraste / Maker.

And I just remember something very interesting, and it would potentially make Morrimancers squee (I did...)

"Urthemiel was once the Tevinter god of beauty. In ancient times, he was worshiped by musicians, artists, and poets"

If these variety of "songs" are interelated, if not one and the same, I do not think it's a coincidence that the OGB was once the God associated with music. That's certainly a hobby I would be teaching to my OGB, like it or not!

Although it was always said that Dumat was the most powerful. And Urthemiel as an Archdemon kind of sucked. But I do hope he's that important.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Don't feel bad, KoP: I want to see it to! I got much the same impresion you did.

Personally, I've always felt that Avernus's ability to postpone the Calling alone was of such great value, I could never convince myself to kill him. Even if it only, say, doubled the timespan one could be a Grey Warden... just think of how much that alone would be worth! And that isn't even half of what it can do.

Indeed. As a man who can't stand waste, I would never be able to kill Avernus.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I was very interested in Avernus' research and way back in my rant stage, post DA:O, I had mentioned to Gaider that I personally thought his was one of the most interesting story threads I had run across in the game (well...beside Morrigan's story of course), given the implications of what his research could accomplish.  This was one of two examples I used to argue for a direct sequel, the other being a continuation of the story with our favorite swamp witch and her mother.

I concur with that and the rest of your post. I thought it was a very interesting subplot. Not only did it cast some questions about the Wardens as a political organization, it shed more light into Ferelden history, had a nice story about Sophia, but of course most importantly Avernus who stole the show with his Dumbo ears.

But yea what he was able to accomplish, its general unpleasantness notwithstanding, was pretty impressive and extremily valuable. And the cool thing is, Avernus is a blood mage, was near a sunder of the veil for centuries, and not only does he manage to contain the demons, he resisted possession all that time. He's awesome!  
Plus, Avernus hinted that the Wardens can be empowered to fight demons if I recall. That also has important implications for the Wardens, both during blights and after the last blight. And like we've seen in DA2, demons are becoming more active, and could become very active in the short future with the all out mage rebellion.

Foolsfolly wrote...

Ok, I just read KnightofPhoenix's original post (KOP's great always. Thanks for posting on the site, dude).

But I have to say one thing. That statue at the end of the Deep Road art does not look like the Architect, at least to me. It looks like the statues you find in the Tevinter/Elf cave from the Dalish Origin. Tamlen looks at one and says that it's one of their gods.

At least, that's where my mind went to when I saw it. And Witch Hunt does have the reveal that the Dwarves and Elves lived together for some period of time.

Thanks!

I was basing it on the long skinny arms, big hands. Long robes. Shoulder pads. And the big hat. But yea, there are also the statues in Origins, that we see in the Blood mages hideout in Denerim.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 mars 2011 - 01:22 .