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The Casual vs. Hardcore Perspective: An Analysis of Dragon Age 2/Open Letter to Bioware


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#1
ReavousX

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Disclaimer:  This will be a lengthy post!  I've attempted to make it as reader-friendly as possible, hope you all enjoy.

As more and more people begin to get their hands on Dragon Age 2, one of the meme's popping up most often is the idea that Bioware "dumbed down" (most overused phrase on DA 2 forums?) Dragon Age to appeal more to console gamers.  It's an undeniable fact that the game has been streamlined, with combat, armor, and dialog all seeing major changes.  There's two schools of thinking that have dominated the conversations regarding the topic, one one hand, we have the casual gamer who appreciates the simplicity and accessibility, on the other, the hardcore RPG gamer, who scoffs at the foolish console user, blaming them for these unwanted changes.

I've spent a great deal of time just sifting through topics, hearing the same arguments and reasoning again and again.  Typically, it ends there, but today I had a bit of an epiphany.  I consider myself  a "hardcore" gamer, and RPG's have long been my favorite genre...I'm also an inquiring mind.  My wife, she's quite the opposite.  She is the poster woman for "casual gamer".  I'm blessed to have a wife who not only plays games, but is as big of an RPG fan as I am.  So, as is usual when I'm hanging out, watching her run through her second playthrough of the game, we chat about various aspects of the game.  She was also hooked on Origins when it was released, so we could compare and contrast, as well as discuss things we prefered in each game.  We discussed plot, companions, gameplay, and much much more.  When all was said and done, I felt like we had just broken down the game as it had not been done before, and I felt that more than happy to share it here, with you all.  

Gameplay: 
Hardcore:
On all accounts, the core gameplay is very much the same as Dragon Age:  Origins, but keeps you more involved as a participant, rather than a spectator.  The lack of isometric view on PC is a real kick to the groin for some of the hardcore RPG elitists out there, times are changing...but I think there will always be a place for the overhead view.  The lack of auto-attack for console gamer's is also a negative, although a great deal of people may enjoy the active attacking, auto-attack allows for a more cinematic and strategic experience.  Both of this things would be patchworthy, in my opinion.  

The exploding bodies is a bit much.  I know it's supposed to be graphic, but I appreciate logic and physics much more than templars, thieves, and the like all blowing up when I kill them with a critical hit.  It makes sense for some magical spells, and a big two handed weapon kill, but that's about it.  
Boss fights were hit and miss, but the fights that mattered were big hits.  The "stages" of each fight were a nice addition, and forced you to plan on the fly, which I prefer over going in and running your battle plan as you heal accordingly.  This is where bringing a little action into the RPG can really shine, I hope to see Bioware expand on this in future games.  

 Casual:

I'm a huge fan of the new combat system.  The vast amounts of tedious battles in Origins became a bore as I pressed one button and watched the fight unfold, picking my skills and waiting for them to cooldown.  Now, I'm engaged in each and every battle, whether it's a main plot epic fight, or random thugs on a sidequest.  I can see where others are coming from, wanting the option to auto-attack though, but it's just not for me.  I don't see why it couldn't just be an option, and both parties will be pleased.
Really, it feels incredibly similar to Origins for me, but that's a good thing.  I appreciate the tweaks made to the gameplay, and it's improved my overall experience for sure.  Origins had me hooked for the story and characters, now with Dragon Age 2, gameplay is added to my list of things I love about the DA series.

Hawke and Conversations:


Hardcore:

The character creation was well done, and I dare say one could even make a better looking main character in this game than Origins.  What really got me was how your created character was reflected in your family.  Having a different looking mother, brother, and sister depending on what your character looked like made sure that you really felt as if you were with family...not people who look nothing like you claiming to be your immediate family, leaving you suspecting that you were adopted, or found as a child.  

Having a PC with a voice closed the gap between the player and the PC.  Highlighting how having a talking character makes the overall experience better isn't needed, the year is 2011, having a voiced main character is nearly a must.  Although I wouldn't be heartbroken to go back to my silent warden...I prefer it this way.
Ah, the conversation wheel.  Overall, it made conversations less of a burden.  I could associate the images paired with options to determine what line to pick.  This also helps avoid any accidental choices that could hurt relationships with part members or the plot line.  There's a part of me that feels that I need to be slightly more involved in the process though.  I could just as easily pick personality options in the beginning of the game and nearly do away with the entire system, save for making major choices.  If Bioware insists on going this route, I'd even go as far as suggesting that we actually resort to picking character personality and beliefs at character creation.  As the DA series heads more and more towards a cinematic experience, that may very well be the best way to go, while increasing action options, rather than conversation lines.  

Casual:


Having a voiced character was a major improvement compared to Origins.  Although I liked my Origins character, I never got quite as connected to my warden as I did Hawke.  Although this suggestion would be a pain to implement, different voices to choose from would make the voice overs even better.  Admittedly, Hawke's voice fit a wide range of personalities and looks, but multiple voices, even if it was only three or four, would add some depth to character creation.

Hurray for the conversation wheel!!!  Honestly, as deep as Origins was, there was one thing that the text could not convey - tone.  Now, we know if what you choose to say is being said sarcastically, diplomatically, etc.  This helps me chose what to say to who, and insures that I'm not about to rub my chosen love interest the wrong way.  I don't mind the pictures, or how simplistic it makes choosing an option.  I don't ALWAYS pick good.  In some situations you'll want to be aggressive, others, you may want to be funny.  Just because everything is labeled doesn't mean I'm going through the game with the right stick pushed a certain direction and constantly hitting "A" in my conversations.  

Leveling up was another big improvement, in my opinion.  It was easier for me to plan ahead on what I wanted to spend my points on, as well as get a good grasp of what all was available for me as I progressed through the game.

(The following sections have been merged, as both Casual and Hardcore generally agreed on each point.)


Companions:
The companions of DA 2 were mostly memorable, but had some of their weaker links.  Varric was the strongest of the cast, who proved to be intriguing, humorous, and well...lovable.  Isabela and Anders were also two big winners.  There was one companion who's character felt as if they never developed, and were ultimately a missed opportunity - Fenris.  

The inability to devote an extended amount of time to getting to know your companions is a major fault in DA 2.  Even if it's nothing more than a ton of character background or pointless conversations, that time devoted to learning about your companions is key.  Splitting up those moments throughout the game is good, and of course you have to pace it, but it feels incredibly restricting.  The best option for companion relationships is somewhere between Origins and DA 2, bringing the best of both worlds together may be the answer.  

The inclusion of more companion specific gifts would also be welcome, having only a handful per companion is a shame, as gifts are a great way to learn more about your companion or love interest, and earn their favor.  The more interaction, the better. 

Each companion's unique specialization tree was a great touch, and was one of the best changes seen in DA 2.  Each character had a unique role they could play, with skills that only they could use. 

Plot:


DA 2, although memorable, didn't measure up to the epic adventure that was Origins.  Not that we constantly want to compare these two games, but there were some obvious, and at times painful faults with DA 2's plot.  There's a great deal of beating around the bush throughout Act 1 and early Act 2, a great deal of time is spent running errands for NPC's who loosely tie into the main plot, if at all.  In Origins, the plot was laid out before you.  You knew who your main antagonists were from the beginning, Loghain and the Archdemon.  Whether the goal with DA 2 was to think outside of the box with the plot, or if it just played out this way, the very fact that we don't meet the two major figures of Act 3 until the end of Act 2 is obviously problematic.  

The climax of Act 1 amounted to very little throughout the rest of the game.  Sure, there's an item that has serious effects on Act 3, but we see very little of it, and amounts to nothing more than a little bit of dialogue that we're left to chew on.  For as long as Act 1 was, there was not much payoff.  Aside from laying the foundation of the plot, the key points could all be summed up in a matter of a couple of hours.  I'm surprised that the decision wasn't made to cut the fat, and supplement that missing time with tying in factors that would be relevant in the climax of Act 3.
The role the Arishok played in Act 2, and the Qunari in genral was one of the highlights of the plot.  His cryptic talks and view on Kirwall's society played beautifully into the big picture.  Seeing a bit more of him in Act 1 may have further set the tone for the entire game.  Act 2 was the premier Act, as it felt fleshed out, focused, and finished when all was said and done, the difference between Act 2 and the other two Acts is a bit shocking, as there's a large gap in quality.

Overall:


Hardcore:

Dragon Age 2 was a solid RPG experience, without a doubt.  I'm definitely left with a feeling that Bioware was testing the waters with a few aspects of the game to gauge player reaction and judge where to go with future installments.  Judging by the ending of DA 2, this may be the weaker title of the trilogy should a third game be made, simply because we're on the brink of seeing a great deal of things come together.  The game certainly felt different, and different freaks people out sometimes...that whole "change" thing has odd effects on people.  Personally, I didn't mind the changes, and welcome further alterations as well.  I do hope that at least some of the good ideas and suggestions we've seen come from fans are looked at seriously, and are implemented in the future, as there's room for improvement even on games that make millions of dollars.

Casual:


The task of topping Dragon Age: Origins was no easy feat, but in my opinion, DA 2 did just that.  I would like to see "Origins" implemented again, as the multiple backgrounds sent replayability through the roof, but I don't miss them too much.  This was a big step forward for the series, and I hope to see most of the changes stay and get refined as Bioware moves forward.  

If you managed to read through this entire piece, congratulations, you've won the internet!  Here's to hoping that someone at Bioware at least gives this a look, it was a fun little project for me and the missus.  Well, mostly me, she's too busy trying to romance Sebastian.  Damn him and that Scottish accent!

Modifié par ReavousX, 17 mars 2011 - 11:46 .


#2
akayasha

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First off, well done a lengthy but interesting review. A lot of people will probably disagree with your points, but I found most of them agreeable. Some things I didn't like, but that's just my opinion. I don't really like the way you can bond with your companions in Dragon Age II. In Origins, you could ask them about their past or talk to them anytime in camp, but in Dragon Age II sometimes they just make comments when you try to speak to them. I thought the "stages" in the combat were a little off because it wouldn't make sense for a mob of enemies to slowly come group at a time. It would be smarter to try to swarm your group because numbers is all they really have left at this point. I generally liked the game, but I just didn't like the companionship too much. For some reason the dialogue wheel made it feel like a third person experience for me. It didn't really feel like my actions, it just felt like I should chose the top because that is the right thing to do.

#3
HawXV2

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Very agreeable. The summary was perfect. I fully expect DA3 will be a combo of both Origins and DA2, making it BioWare's strongest title since BGII.

#4
GunClubGirl

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I reject the implication that I can't be a hardore RPG gamer and a console gamer. I am not a stereotype. I do agree with some of the things said though, even though I hesitated to keep reading after that I did. And I just wanted to say that I think Anders was by far the strongest character, not Varric, but I totally agree we needed more interaction with all of them. In the case of all of them huge missed opportunity.

#5
Timon44

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Very good post. I have to say I agree with just about everything you wrote.

#6
johook213

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One of the best reviews I've seen on these boards! I agree that this was a big step foward for the series. I also hope we see many more installments that refine these changes. I'd also like to add that i love the new qunari look, and I also like the new look for the elves, althought a couple of the elves did kind of look a little gross, but the new look can be refined and is without a doubt a step in the right direction. ^^

#7
AtreiyaN7

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Unique review there - thanks. I enjoyed seeing both opinions together like that. I think the companions were well done, but it would have added to the experience to be able to have casual chats and talk to them whenever you want. I disagree about the ending being weak, but maybe that's just the history nut in me. I definitely agree about the Arishok being complex and interesting, as I rather enjoyed my chats with him. You two made some interesting points.

#8
DariusKalera

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I appreciate the time that you and yours took to develop this, and it is interesting.

I do however, disagree with you on a few points. I did not, personally, find it to be an agreeable RPG experience and overall, I feel it was more of a half step back in a few areas than a step forward.

The immersion was simply broken too many times.

#9
Legbiter

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Neckbeard's post is too long.

Executive summary?

#10
ReavousX

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GunClubGirl wrote...

I reject the implication that I can't be a hardore RPG gamer and a console gamer. I am not a stereotype. I do agree with some of the things said though, even though I hesitated to keep reading after that I did. And I just wanted to say that I think Anders was by far the strongest character, not Varric, but I totally agree we needed more interaction with all of them. In the case of all of them huge missed opportunity.


Not sure what you're getting at, considering how I'm the "hardcore" voice, and played the game on Xbox 360.  I can't agree with Anders being the strongest character, having a larger role helped him, but honestly, I needed to see more internal struggle with him trying to get in touch with his actual self, rather than slipping into a Justice induced state of aggression.  Don't get me wrong, he's second place for me, by a wide margin as well, but Varric got me, hook line and sinker.

I think you may have misunderstood the entire Hardcore vs. Casual outlook.  It has absolutely NOTHING to do with what you play the game on, and everything to do with taste, how you play the game, and attention to detail. 

#11
ReavousX

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Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. I'm not your typical forum-goer...I definitely appreciate those who can agree AND disagree with my thoughts and opinions equally. There's a few things I missed (writing this in the middle of the night, then finishing it today kinda left me just wanting to get it done) like map recycling. The recycling broke the immersion for both me and my wife. Eventually, we just learned to deal with it, but the first time I noticed it, it left me feeling sour for a while.

#12
ReavousX

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Legbiter wrote...

Neckbeard's post is too long.

Executive summary?


Game good, not perfect, appeals to both the hardcore and casual RPG gamer, but has glaring faults in a few areas.  ;)

#13
Deylar

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Instead of Dumbed Down, I use the term Watered Down.

#14
WoooDoggie

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Awful post OP. Much like Bioware you tried to please both audiences and failed miserably.

#15
Sen4lifE

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Too long for me to read all.  I have to say, PC gamer's should get their tactical camera.  If for only to aid them with the way the PC works as compared to moving sticks on the controller.  On the other hand, console gamers should get their auto-attack, but no one lights threads on fire over that.. well.. not as brutally.. thus far.

#16
Sen4lifE

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WoooDoggie wrote...

Awful post OP. Much like Bioware you tried to please both audiences and failed miserably.


Do you ever have a positive post?  I've read many of your replies, are you just that much of a grouchy troll?

#17
WoooDoggie

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Sen4lifE wrote...

WoooDoggie wrote...

Awful post OP. Much like Bioware you tried to please both audiences and failed miserably.


Do you ever have a positive post?  I've read many of your replies, are you just that much of a grouchy troll?


I like your avatar.

#18
ReavousX

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WoooDoggie wrote...

Awful post OP. Much like Bioware you tried to please both audiences and failed miserably.


I <3 you too.  

#19
akayasha

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ReavousX wrote...

Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. I'm not your typical forum-goer...I definitely appreciate those who can agree AND disagree with my thoughts and opinions equally. There's a few things I missed (writing this in the middle of the night, then finishing it today kinda left me just wanting to get it done) like map recycling. The recycling broke the immersion for both me and my wife. Eventually, we just learned to deal with it, but the first time I noticed it, it left me feeling sour for a while.


Ehh. I think the map recycling wasn't really different than Origins. In Origins, there were a lot of "new" places but with reused texture and with the same patterns as the previous areas. Of course in Dragon Age: Origins there were more areas, but I think many games can have one, primary city yet still be good (Legenda of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Clock Tower). As long as the city is alive. Posted Image

#20
HawXV2

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ReavousX wrote...

WoooDoggie wrote...

Awful post OP. Much like Bioware you tried to please both audiences and failed miserably.


I <3 you too.  


Ignore doggie. He is a troll. That post was fantasic and had a lot of good points.

#21
Hiei987

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Excellent review, this forum lacks people like you.

#22
John Epler

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I appreciate the time you put into this! Well-conceived and well-considered.

I should mention - if you aren't going to read a post, then don't jump into a thread just to say 'I DIDN'T READ IT'. That's nonconstructive.

I should further mention - if you're going to get banned for trolling and then create a new alternate account to circumvent your previous ban, you should probably avoid using a similar naming scheme with your new account. Maybe change up your posting style a bit. Give us -some- credit.

#23
Lord_Saulot

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@ReavousX: Thanks for sharing your opinion and your wife's as well. Personally, I did not enjoy the changes to the combat, and I was largely neutral on the voiced protagonist, seeing both advantages and disadvantages. But I appreciate that you took the time to write your views up so nicely. I agree with you and your wife on the strength of the characters generally, though I actually thought that Fenris' personal storyline was one of the most touching.

#24
SatNTookABigDA2

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JohnEpler wrote...

I appreciate the time you put into this! Well-conceived and well-considered.

I should mention - if you aren't going to read a post, then don't jump into a thread just to say 'I DIDN'T READ IT'. That's nonconstructive.

I should further mention - if you're going to get banned for trolling and then create a new alternate account to circumvent your previous ban, you should probably avoid using a similar naming scheme with your new account. Maybe change up your posting style a bit. Give us -some- credit.


No.

#25
ReavousX

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JohnEpler wrote...

I appreciate the time you put into this! Well-conceived and well-considered.

I should mention - if you aren't going to read a post, then don't jump into a thread just to say 'I DIDN'T READ IT'. That's nonconstructive.

I should further mention - if you're going to get banned for trolling and then create a new alternate account to circumvent your previous ban, you should probably avoid using a similar naming scheme with your new account. Maybe change up your posting style a bit. Give us -some- credit.


Thanks John, I appreciate it, and would love to hear more Bioware thoughts on the various topics I touched on.  It was a pleasure writing the piece, and I'm a big fan of Bioware's work.  Knowing that a something I wrote is being seen by the eyes of those who put long hours into many games I've enjoyed is a great feeling.