22 réponses à ce sujet

[Pileyourbodies]

Hawke for some reason is above the law for no good reason. I don't just mean Chantry law if you're a mage but warriors and rogues commit how many hundred acts of breaking and entering? Other Bioware games have had some reasons for the characters being above the law.

I accepted this in Origins cause the Grey wardens have Diplomatic immunity to do whatever they want, thats perfectly legal way to be above the law so i'm good with that 

I accept this in Mass Effect because Spectres again have Immunity as well. 

In Kotor the Jedi have some special privileges under the republic so thats just fine. 

In dragon age 2 what makes hawke special? He kills the arishok? Had meredith and her templars gone in there they would have done the same, had Orsino gone in there...well he'd have turned into a harvester and done the same thing. Hawke has no reason to be above the law and it annoys me to no end. 

[Lithuasil]

Being above the law in minor offenses might actually be excusable, with aveline being fanatically loyal. Not being dragged of to the circle is inexcusable however. What I suspect here, is an unreasonable fear to mistreat player characters in ways that aren't direct violence (such as apostate hawke suffering abuse at the hands of templars). Which is unfortunate because few things are equally immersive - just think about how the city elf origin story was so much more memorable then the other five.

[Atomic Tangerine]

I thought it was absurd when I went to the Arishok with Aveline and she was going on about how people can't take the law into their own hands when she helps me do it all the time.
That's why I agreed with him about harboring the elves and admitted I wouldn't turn them over either. It's also part of why I wished I could have sided with Qunari. So they might be a little too hard core, but they more or less want to do the same things I do: realign Kirkwall's moral standing with their own sense of justice and right/wrong. I spent forty hours doing just that (decided who was right/wrong, who deserved to live/die), and it's okay if I do it, but not anyone else?

[Pileyourbodies]

Yeah thats my questioning to Atomic especially since there is no reason that Hawke has an reason to be able to do any of this! Minor offenses might be excusable but several times throughout you commit grand larceny, you break and enter. Assault with a deadly weapon, Murder. Its no fun to be bothered with these so in previous games you had an excuse that gets you immunity to any crime Hawke has no excuse. Even after being made Champion. Champion is just a title and means people respect you not a license to kill.

[Lithuasil]

Most people you murder, tried to murder you first to be fair - still, I think it's not even that you're not frequently called out on stuff - you just never have to suffer the consequences, and it somewhat takes the sting, when no matter how often I'm recognised as an apostate, no ones going to come and get me.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

Most people you murder, tried to murder you first to be fair - still, I think it's not even that you're not frequently called out on stuff - you just never have to suffer the consequences, and it somewhat takes the sting, when no matter how often I'm recognised as an apostate, no ones going to come and get me.

Well you go in the Chantry with Anders and kill a bunch of templars. And in my playthroughs I kill alot of templars.

[Lithuasil]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Most people you murder, tried to murder you first to be fair - still, I think it's not even that you're not frequently called out on stuff - you just never have to suffer the consequences, and it somewhat takes the sting, when no matter how often I'm recognised as an apostate, no ones going to come and get me.

Well you go in the Chantry with Anders and kill a bunch of templars. And in my playthroughs I kill alot of templars.

That's not murder, they're just templars
Seriously though, perhaps one of the best examples for what I said - you're told fighting templars in certain places is crazy, you disregard all warnings, and then everybody just rolls along with it - it's not that technically you're not bound by the law, but law enforcement seems to have gotten the wrong address, and instead arrest some other hawke.

[Pileyourbodies]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Most people you murder, tried to murder you first to be fair - still, I think it's not even that you're not frequently called out on stuff - you just never have to suffer the consequences, and it somewhat takes the sting, when no matter how often I'm recognised as an apostate, no ones going to come and get me.

Well you go in the Chantry with Anders and kill a bunch of templars. And in my playthroughs I kill alot of templars.

The templars you kill with anders are after him not you. No templars go after you.

[Foolsfolly]

You know, the Elder Scrolls game has laws and you're a hero. If you murder someone or steal something you have a fine to pay or go to jail.

Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to implement here. And we shouldn't HAVE to click on every basket and crate in a game to get our money. Why have the Bone Pit and not gain money for it? If we got money from the Bone Pit, a legitimate source of income, and there were basic easy laws to the game (and missions that have you break the law, of course, otherwise it's not fun to have laws) then the world's become more real.

As is, you slay anyone you want and everything in the game exists for you to take as you will.

::shrugs:::

It never really bothered me. It did bother me though that I was a very well known mage and no one cared. You'd think being a mage would have some sort of impact on a Mage vs Templar story.

At the very least the Arishok should never talk to me since I'm a mage.

[Noatz]

I love that you can go into the de Launcet mansion in Act 3 with Guard Captain Aveline in tow and ROB THEM BLIND.

It doesn't bother me so much, but I can understand how for some things allowed for sake of the gameplay can ruin immersion.

[AlexXIV]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Most people you murder, tried to murder you first to be fair - still, I think it's not even that you're not frequently called out on stuff - you just never have to suffer the consequences, and it somewhat takes the sting, when no matter how often I'm recognised as an apostate, no ones going to come and get me.

Well you go in the Chantry with Anders and kill a bunch of templars. And in my playthroughs I kill alot of templars.

The templars you kill with anders are after him not you. No templars go after you.

Well that's my point, they should. I don't think any bloodmage kills more templars than my Hawke, yet nothing happens to Hawke. And if I switch sides to the templars in the last minute they even kneel to my Hawke. I don't mind at all, but it is kind of funny. You know, since Bioware advertised DA2 by saying that the purpose of the narrative is that you can see the consequences of your actions directly in game. Well I guess they meant the ones where you don't have a choice.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 mars 2011 - 01:26 .

[WhiteKnyght]

A lot of Hawke's killings are self defense, the enemies are hostile first.

And a lot of his other crimes like break ins and stuff he usually just doesn't get caught for.

Also if you were a mage I doubt you'd be willing to give up every personal freedom you have. Life in the gallows means no good food, no fresh air or sunlight, and no sex. Only thing you can do is lay in bed and go to school.

[MerchantGOL]

DA has a long precedent of nobels being able to get away with allot

Hawke Come act 2 is a noble [in act 1 he was a Crimnal or damn near close]

NotTo mention he's Freinds with The Captain of the Gaurd

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 18 mars 2011 - 01:41 .

[WhiteKnyght]

MerchantGOL wrote...

DA has a long precedent of nobles being able to get away with a lot

So does real life. Anybody with the money or connections can get away with crimes.

[ExistsAlready]

Hawke's immunity spreads to everyone following. I had Anders along to yell at Meredith and she flat out stated that Anders hadn't had his door busted down by Templars in the past decade or so because he was a companion of Hawke.

Modifié par ExistsAlready, 18 mars 2011 - 01:51 .

[Raiil]

Initially, it appears that Hawke worked in areas that the law weren't particularly interested in, and thus the guards would ignore them.


By Act II, Hawke not only has money, but influence. They're in good with the mercs or the smugglers, and they've got a finger on the pulse of Kirkwall via their buddy, Varric, who knows just about everything and has a great deal of pull himself. They're familiar with the guard captain, they're sheltering an apostate who also saved countless lives amoungst the poor refugees and thus have a tie to the poor (but numerous), etc etc. Plus Hawke becomes very powerful, very quickly. Someone a sane guard is not going to want to mess with.

Relatively speaking, Hawke's crimes tend to be minor; they're rarely out assassinating anyone and a lot of their dirty work happens away from the public.

[KenKenpachi]

He has a sword, (or other weapon/power) he kills pretty much everyone in his path, and his has his own group of comrades. Thus he serves the natural law, rather than that of man, as well he can slay man.

As if real society were any different, there are islands off of the coast of Italy owned by the mob, where mafi hitmen pretty much shoot the passerby and nothing is done about it, or like numerous US senators who do what would get you or me thrown in prison. From Rape, to 2nd degree murder. Top it off the previous president of Isreal raped numerous women, nothing was done to him prison wise. Or the various reporters killed by state sanctions. Or fat cats who steal millions and at best get a few weeks in jail.

Because something is a law does not make it just, and many laws seek to protect the weak from the strong, however by being in the right place one can escape the law, or even make it to there own advantage.

If you don't know that, then you've lived one hell of a shelterd life, hell because of the reputation I have I've been in numerous fights but never once got an assualt charge. The laws only go as far as you allow them, nothing more nothing less. So why should someone like Hawke not cut a slice of the pie for him, or herself?

[Rykoth]

Keep in mind, Varric is telling the story to Cassandra.

For all we know, Hawke talked his way out of most situations, but in trying to boost the Champion's image as an unstoppable hero, he gets to massacre people left and right.

[DM Veil]

Valentia X wrote...

Initially, it appears that Hawke worked in areas that the law weren't particularly interested in, and thus the guards would ignore them.


By Act II, Hawke not only has money, but influence. They're in good with the mercs or the smugglers, and they've got a finger on the pulse of Kirkwall via their buddy, Varric, who knows just about everything and has a great deal of pull himself. They're familiar with the guard captain, they're sheltering an apostate who also saved countless lives amoungst the poor refugees and thus have a tie to the poor (but numerous), etc etc. Plus Hawke becomes very powerful, very quickly. Someone a sane guard is not going to want to mess with.

Relatively speaking, Hawke's crimes tend to be minor; they're rarely out assassinating anyone and a lot of their dirty work happens away from the public.

Exactly this. In the begining you have your reputation with the Mercs of Smugglers plus support from Varric to keep you somewhat out of trouble. Add to that Anders and all the work he has done for the common folk and you can get away with some things.

As the game progresses you only get more political power so it stands to reason you can get away with just a slap on the wrist for just about anything short of murder in plain sight.

Modifié par DM Veil, 18 mars 2011 - 02:07 .

[Freestorm Skinn]

I assumed that in the course of just the first three years, Hawke became an unofficial fixer for the high and low of Kirkwall that they can simply disavow if s/he gets killed trying to solve their problems. convenient tool that would be discarded if his/her usefulness wears out. After s/he becomes rich, the money buys a lot of silence and tolerance.

But yes, harder to justify if you're playing as a mage, though. Meredith would have had Hawke killed in a heartbeat.  

Actually. it's kind of explained at the end of Act 3, though: Meredith gets reports of Hawke from the Templars but they never met until this point.  Meredith was probably too busy with bigger problems and more dangerous blood mages and hadn't gotten round to going after Hawke, whom all the reports said had been helping people, so Meredith probably gave him/her the benefit of the doubt.

And there's the fact that a lot of people manage to hide in the nooks and crannies of Kirkwall for a long time without getting caught by the Templars or the Guard.

Modifié par Freestorm Skinn, 18 mars 2011 - 02:11 .

[Narreneth]

Lithuasil wrote...
 - just think about how the city elf origin story was so much more memorable then the other five.

Hah.  No.

[Tesslyn]

I was actually hoping there would be a choice with Meredith's betrayal at the end. Agree to serve her or something as the first enchanter of the new circle. Or even agree that mages need to be controlled and accept being made tranquil.

Unfortunatly Bioware chose to tell an after the fact story -for no good reason- that precluded ANY outcome but the one they had written for the war.