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[Statulos]

MJF JD wrote...

You do have to wonder if Sebastian's tantrum has any weight behind it.

He´s just the stick in the ass version of Leliana.

[LobselVith8]

He also discusses with Fenris turning over the mages in the party to the templars.

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.
Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?
Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.
Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?
Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?
Fenris: Huh... you want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

I'm so glad we avenged his parents' deaths so he could conspire to turn us over to the templars...

[Augustei]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Yes, you lost your parents and your precious family through mass murder. Sure, we understand that you're a Chantry fan boy. Still, you don't want to go back at Starkhaven after we looted the enemies for your precious family heirloom. Hey, we avenged your family and in six damn years all you do is whine that you won't go back at your country. When Anders did something to your precious Chantry, you became mad at us because I chose to let him live, then you decided to go back at your Starkhaven, saying that you will come back to seek revenge? 

NO! Sebastian, you're the biggest tool ever. You're so full of it. You've been gone for years, your country will probably reject you as a prince, because you're such a failure. And the fact that your countrymen or soldiers didn't search for you tells us pretty much how much your people care about you, miserable bowman. You may be strong and kind, it doesn't change the fact that you turned your back on me and our crew when we needed you the most. You coward!

Next time our paths cross, I will not hesitate to smash your head with my broadsword...

Friendly yours,
Hawke

---

Sorry if this post shocked some readers, I just had a long night and I still can't get over the fact Sebastian was such a wuss. Bleh... XD Still, I wonder how this will play out in the sequel.

I hope he burns Kirkwall into the ground with your Hawke in it... How dare you spare that bastard Anders!! lol

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 18 mars 2011 - 04:34 .

[Statulos]

Persephone wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Sebastian should totally just take that a terrorist blew up his adoptive home and killed his adoptive mother. What a whiner. I mean, what a cry baby.

/sarcasm

Pretty much this. Much as I loved Anders up to THAT point......I can understand Sebastian 100%. And unlike Alistair's "Wah, didn't get what I wanted! I'm leavin'!", Sebastian's threat of returning with an army really could have DIRE consequences. I wonder how that will play out in the future.

Dire? Sure, sure. Hawke defeats hordes of bandits/mercs/thugs/tevinter enslavers/demons that appear from thin air. Why should I be scared of an army?

So sure, send the dudes who do not care about his self righteous crap to my gang of beefy leveled up guys. Enjoy the carnage.

Modifié par Statulos, 18 mars 2011 - 04:32 .

[Augustei]

DM Veil wrote...

And your AI sucks too!

...sorry, I just had to. In my first play through it was always Sebastian that would get himself killed by running right next to me, never Varric.

I still bring him though, double archers is nice.

Double Archers is super OP, always good having them

[Augustei]

Statulos wrote...

Persephone wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Sebastian should totally just take that a terrorist blew up his adoptive home and killed his adoptive mother. What a whiner. I mean, what a cry baby.

/sarcasm

Pretty much this. Much as I loved Anders up to THAT point......I can understand Sebastian 100%. And unlike Alistair's "Wah, didn't get what I wanted! I'm leavin'!", Sebastian's threat of returning with an army really could have DIRE consequences. I wonder how that will play out in the future.

Dire? Sure, sure. Hawke defeats hordes of bandits/mercs/thugs/tevinter enslavers/demons that appear from thin air. Why should I be scared of an army?

So sure, send the dudes who do not care about his self righteous crap to my gang of beefy leveled up guys. Enjoy the carnage.

Well Considering Hawke is no longer in Kirkwall by the end of the game I dont see how he can defend a place he isn't in.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

He also discusses with Fenris turning over the mages in the party to the templars.

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.
Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?
Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.
Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?
Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?
Fenris: Huh... you want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

I'm so glad we avenged his parents' deaths so he could conspire to turn us over to the templars...

To be fair, Merrill deals with demons and Anders is possessed by one….

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

I hope he burns Kirkwall into the ground with your Hawke in it... How dare you spare that bastard Anders!! lol

A man tries to put an end to the slavery of his people and everyone condemns him for it.

Let me ask, XxDeonxX, what did Cassandra say when your Hawke sided with the templars and became Viscount?

[Insomniak]

I have to agree with the OP. Sebastian kinda came off as a self-righteous ****** imo. And after Maker knows how many hours of his b****ing about not wanting to take the throne, he declares that he will go back to Starkhaven, raise an army, and invade Kirkwall just because I wouldn't kill my lover Yes, Anders may be an abomination of sorts who blew up the Chantry with the Grand Cleric inside, but I think Seb's reaction was a bit extreme - as in polar opposite of that little mantre of his.

Loved his VA, however.

EDIT: Although... I think Sebastian had the right idea, unlike Fenris (who I was forced to kill). Running away to get reinforcements was actually kind of smart as opposed to challenging me head on with a handful of templars. Yes, I understand we had a disagreement about the whole mage-templar conflict, but at that moment I really wanted to just break down the fourth wall and be like " Yo, Fenris! Look at my achievements list: I killed a varterral (twice), slayed a few pride demons, defeated the Arishok in single combat... oh, and took down a high dragon. I'm the freakin' Champion of Kirkwall. Are you really going to take this on?" Look how he ended up.

Modifié par javajedi217, 18 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[Icy Magebane]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

He also discusses with Fenris turning over the mages in the party to the templars.

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.
Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?
Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.
Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?
Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?
Fenris: Huh... you want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

I'm so glad we avenged his parents' deaths so he could conspire to turn us over to the templars...

To be fair, Merrill deals with demons and Anders is possessed by one….

So what?  It was Hawke's team, and therefore the membership isn't Sebastian's business.  Honestly, I have never even heard this conversation because I had him in my party maybe three times in total.  I regret wasting 7 bucks on Sebastian. 

What kind of a loser would rather sit around in a church rather than rule a country?  It's really a shame that you never get the option to kill him.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

A man tries to put an end to the slavery of his people and everyone condemns him for it.

Let me ask, XxDeonxX, what did Cassandra say when your Hawke sided with the templars and became Viscount?

A) Comparing this to real world slavery is silly.
 
HE IS POSSESED BY A DEMON!!!

[LobselVith8]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

To be fair, Merrill deals with demons and Anders is possessed by one….

Technically, Anders is possessed by a Spirit of Justice. Although the symbiosis has changed him, it's likely the same as the Rivain seers who also converge with spirits (according to the Genitivi codex about the nation of Rivain).

Also, Merrill initially deals with one demon, and knows the risks involved. Whether she deals with others depends entirely on what you do as Hawke. As for sending the templars after Merrill? Considering she was my Hawke's LI, I'd have killed him for that. I'd have probably killed him for threatening Kirkwall if the game let me, quite frankly.

[LobselVith8]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

A man tries to put an end to the slavery of his people and everyone condemns him for it.

Let me ask, XxDeonxX, what did Cassandra say when your Hawke sided with the templars and became Viscount?

A) Comparing this to real world slavery is silly.
 
HE IS POSSESED BY A DEMON!!!

That's odd, you don't appear to be XxDeonxX...

A) Slavery is the argument Hawke can make to Fenris in direct reference to the Chantry controlled Circle. Other characters make the same reference as well. You think it's silly? Take it up with the writers of Dragon Age 2, not me.

Technically, he made a deal with a Spirit of Justice. He's bonded to a spirit, not a demon. He's irrevocably changed as a result, but even in the Fade, Justice gives no indication that he's become a demon, and hates demons.

Since this isn't a thread to debate mages over, maybe we should simply agree to disagree on the matter and let it drop?

[Larryboy_Dragon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Technically, Anders is possessed by a Spirit of Justice. Although the symbiosis has changed him, it's likely the same as the Rivain seers who also converge with spirits (according to the Genitivi codex about the nation of Rivain).

The game (and Anders himself) clearly state that Justice was perverted into a vengeance demon.
Even Anders was scared of ‘justice’ and wanted it over with.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Also, Merrill initially deals with one demon, and knows the risks involved. Whether she deals with others depends entirely on what you do as Hawke. As for sending the templars after Merrill? Considering she was my Hawke's LI, I'd have killed him for that. I'd have probably killed him for threatening Kirkwall if the game let me, quite frankly.

She’s not like Wynn, who was safe with her spirit – Merrill at any stage could lose control and become an abomination. (It’s kinda a cop-out that she is never actually at risk in the game).
In the fade she PROVES that she can not be trusted – and unlike the others that betray you, her betrayal could have major consequences.
 
She’s my LI in my current game. I’m a mage and I have turned her quests down flat.
 

[Oneiropolos]

Anders also makes a slavery argument to Fenris in regards to the Gallows. Fenris shoots him down rather well in that banter. Fenris simply says that slaves do not naturally attract demons. Which IS a point. Mages should not be treated the way they are in DA2. I'm not DEFENDING how they are treated, because it is abhorrent. But if they do not learn to control their magic, they literally become beings that KILL OTHERS without realizing it. The circle is an overly harsh way of handling it, but if you read the histories, the mages themselves first came up with the circle as a place they could be safe and learn to control their powers. It's CORRUPTED into something evil, but I don't think anyone could ever make the argument that slavery was something chosen by the slaves at first for their own benefit and it was corrupted. I mean, as a historian, I've heard arguments of cases where slavery WAS beneficial for the slaves, but they are always noted as the exception. In the case of mages, they need the training for their own safety and the safety around them. It's what it has become that's wrong. But complete and utter freedom is irresponsible too.

[LobselVith8]

Oneiropolos wrote...

 The circle is an overly harsh way of handling it, but if you read the histories, the mages themselves first came up with the circle as a place they could be safe and learn to control their powers.

This isn't accurate. Emperor Drakon I created the Circle of Magi when he established the Orlesian Empire and also instituted the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. Mages were segregated from society as a direct result of holding a peaceful protest in a cathedral, and the alternative to Divine Ambrosia II's desire to declare an Exalted March on her own cathedral was to imprison the mages.

And Fenris doesn't seem to dispute the slave comment when Hawke brings it up in direct reference to the mages at the end of the game (if he initially sided with Knight-Commander Meredith). Clearly, we're permitted to see it as slavery, and so do some of the characters.

[Sly Stilla]

I was under the impression he was mad I sold his bow, not because of the whole.. you know.. terrorist act by Anders.

[The Angry One]

You've got Sebastian all wrong, he doesn't retake Starkhaven because it never appears on his world map.
As a Cousland pining after Highever I understand all too well!

[Camenae]

How big exactly is Starkhaven? Is it more like Redcliffe and the Prince of Starkhaven more like the Arl, or is the city more like Kirkwall and Denerim in scope (and power)?

[The Angry One]

It's a city-state like Kirkwall, I'd assume it would at least be on par with it,

[PPR223]

I wish they had a slap system on here, because every companion needs one at one point, apart from Varric.

Starkhaven is the largest of the city states in the Free Marches, according to the Codex.

Modifié par PPR223, 22 mars 2011 - 09:21 .

[Kartikeya]

I completely and utterly understood where Sebastian was coming from. I had a really ugly feeling in the pit of my stomach when he made that oath to protect the Grand Cleric from whatever was coming. A 'this is going to end in tears' feeling. And I didn't know what Anders was going to do...but it was obvious something was going to happen.

Expecting Sebastian not to flip his lid if you spare Anders is like expecting Alistair not to flip his lid if you spare Loghain. Of course he does. Of course he did. NPCs don't exist in this game to be emotionless atomatons that agree with everything Hawke does. I was shocked that he didn't administer some Qunari archer style justice to Anders right there, because I was entirely expecting it.

I do, however, regret there being no option to kill Sebastian after his threat. Not because I want to kill Sebastian, or that my Hawke would want to kill Sebastian...far from it, but threatening to bring an army back to Kirkwall to destroy the entire city is, while obviously a threat made in perfectly understandable fury (he feels utterly betrayed), one that really needs the option to be answered with the murder knife. A civil war is tearing the place apart as he speaks, the Qunari swore to return, the poor city DOES NOT NEED another army marching themselves in, and Sebastian agreed with this before he let his grief get the better of him (as both he and the Grand Cleric are horrified at the idea of an Exalted March on Kirkwall.)

I don't think he'll be able to back up his threat, or necessarily want to, but vengeance makes people do funny things (hi, Anders).