how to build a DW Rogue?
Débuté par
twedz
, mars 18 2011 02:35
#1
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 02:35
twedz
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Ok so i have tried many times to play through as a DW Rogue but i allways seem to die really quickly, anyone got any usefull tips and tricks to get me going? any usefull weapons/armor, rings/amulets, skill point allocations.. any and all help will be appreciated
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#2
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:15
Saboteur-6
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Overview:
It depends on what difficulty setting your going for and who you want to roll with in your party but I just blasted through my first playthrough on normal with a party of DW Rogue Hawke, DW Isabella, Archer Varric, and Healer/Support/Controller Anders.
I based my build off of my DA:O that relied on lightning quick regular flanking/critical attacks over activated skills. So basically for DA 2 I went for high +Attack Speed items and weapons, + Crit Chance, +Crit Damage, Dex, and Cunning investment (not sure on what to advise number wise as I'm not a number cruncher so I have no idea if there's a soft-cap or diminishing returns. You obviously want Dex and Cunning high enough to wield the end game epic weapons.
My endgame Stats (nothing spectacular and often chosen without knowledge of min/maxing):
ATTRIBUTES:
-Strength 10
-Dexterity 42
-Magic 10
-Cunning 42
-Willpower 11
-Constitution 21
-Damage 172 DPS / 93
-Attack 77% / 476
-Defense 61 % / 717
-Armor 31 % / 568
GEAR:
WEAPONS (Endgame):
-Carta's Left-Hand
-Carta's Right-Hand
-Finesse
- Blade of the Many
-Shadow's Claw ( On the list because it's Spirit Damage and has a Rune Slot)
Of Note:
-Red Jenny Backbiter (It's a endgame dagger with a pecuiliar buff of +15 chance of deathblows and Messy Kills. Not sure how the game calcuates deathblow chances so didn't use it. it has 2 rune slots though.)
- The Offhand Blade
Basically again look for +Attack Speed, +Crit/Dam, +Attack as you level up, generally in that order.
ARMOR:
-Arms, Gloves, Boots of the Champion
- Helm of Enaslin (only because I couldnt find the Champion helm)
Trinkets: (didnt really want/have the cash to drop on the purple stuff but look for +Attack Speed, +Dam/Crit chance, +Def, +Equip drop quality, +Gold drop)
Runes:
Honestly didn't start using this until the end of Act 3. Focused on +Def and +Attk Speed.
ABILITIES:
Hawke:
-Mabari Hound: (Used mostly as enemy aggro diversion. The little guy can soak some decent damage when needed...just cant hold aggro or damage well. I have him up constantly.)
Dual Weapon:
-Backstab (Activated: Damage spike, all 3 upgrades)
-Unforgiving Chain (Passive Stacking +2% Crit Chance per hit up to 10)
NOTE: I choose NOT to use Explosive Strike as it eliminates my stacked +Crit from Unforgiving Chain. You move so fast it's almost impossible NOT to keep the max +20% crit chance from Unforgiving Chain up almost the whole fight.)
Scoundrel
-Blindside (Passive +Damage to enemies attacking other targets)
Specialist
-Speed (Sustained +Attack Speed)
Assassin
-Bloodlust (Passive: +Stamina upon enemy death)
-*Mark of Death (Didnt Upgrade. Activated: Single Target Damage Resist Debuff)
-Pinpoint Strikes (Upgrade. Activated +Crit Chance/+Attack Speed)
- Devious Harm (Passive. +1% Crit Damage per point of Cunning)
- Assassinate (2 Upgrade. Activated: Single Target damage spike)
Sabotage
-Miasmic Flask (Upgrade: Activated Control, Targeted AoE Stun)
*Fatiguing Fog (All 3 Upgrades)
*Confusion (Upgrade)
*Rush
*Honeslty I didnt start spending into Sabotage past Miasmic Flask until late game because my build was pretty much "done" way before that.
Hawke Overview: So basically with this setup, I single-handedly vaporize through hordes of enemies before they can even aggro to me. With insane attack speeds and emphasis on Crit/Crit dam you chew through enemies while retaining the ability to massive spike damage casters or Boss enemies as well as offer some Control. The character/team build surely isn't optimized but it was a helluva lot of fun and will get you through Normal mode no sweat.
Party Syngery: This is where your build really shines. I didn't make much of an effort to capitalize on the cross-class combo system but was GREATLY aided by Anders (or any Mage) spamming Haste whenever it's off of cooldown (+50% Attack Speed for ALL party members) and running a max Upgraded Heroic Aura (+20% Damage, +20% Crit Chance, +15% Attack, +8% Defense).
Isabella was specc'd as a Duel Wield off-tank with crowd control and Varric was my ranged AoE damager/debilitator/controller. I'll list Anders build just because the game forces him as the main Support Mage unless you assume that role as Mage Hawke.
Creation
-*Everything, max Upgraded. Seriously.
*Creation has great crowd control in Gllyph of Paralysis/Repulsion, Healing, and Activated/Sustained buffs.
Vengeance (Character Unique Specialization)
-Panacea (+50% health regen for backliners close to Anders. In my case Varric)
-Regroup (Mass Resurrect. Shame it's not in creation).
-Aid Allies (Group Heal. Again Anders gets exclusivity to this...aside from Mage Hawke).
- Vengeance (Only to unlock...)
- Swift Justice (80% Cooldown for ALL of Anders spells. Or...if I'm reading the tooltip right, +20% Cooldown reduction for all Spells)
Anyhow, hope that helps. DW Rogue is an absolute beast.
It depends on what difficulty setting your going for and who you want to roll with in your party but I just blasted through my first playthrough on normal with a party of DW Rogue Hawke, DW Isabella, Archer Varric, and Healer/Support/Controller Anders.
I based my build off of my DA:O that relied on lightning quick regular flanking/critical attacks over activated skills. So basically for DA 2 I went for high +Attack Speed items and weapons, + Crit Chance, +Crit Damage, Dex, and Cunning investment (not sure on what to advise number wise as I'm not a number cruncher so I have no idea if there's a soft-cap or diminishing returns. You obviously want Dex and Cunning high enough to wield the end game epic weapons.
My endgame Stats (nothing spectacular and often chosen without knowledge of min/maxing):
ATTRIBUTES:
-Strength 10
-Dexterity 42
-Magic 10
-Cunning 42
-Willpower 11
-Constitution 21
-Damage 172 DPS / 93
-Attack 77% / 476
-Defense 61 % / 717
-Armor 31 % / 568
GEAR:
WEAPONS (Endgame):
-Carta's Left-Hand
-Carta's Right-Hand
-Finesse
- Blade of the Many
-Shadow's Claw ( On the list because it's Spirit Damage and has a Rune Slot)
Of Note:
-Red Jenny Backbiter (It's a endgame dagger with a pecuiliar buff of +15 chance of deathblows and Messy Kills. Not sure how the game calcuates deathblow chances so didn't use it. it has 2 rune slots though.)
- The Offhand Blade
Basically again look for +Attack Speed, +Crit/Dam, +Attack as you level up, generally in that order.
ARMOR:
-Arms, Gloves, Boots of the Champion
- Helm of Enaslin (only because I couldnt find the Champion helm)
Trinkets: (didnt really want/have the cash to drop on the purple stuff but look for +Attack Speed, +Dam/Crit chance, +Def, +Equip drop quality, +Gold drop)
Runes:
Honestly didn't start using this until the end of Act 3. Focused on +Def and +Attk Speed.
ABILITIES:
Hawke:
-Mabari Hound: (Used mostly as enemy aggro diversion. The little guy can soak some decent damage when needed...just cant hold aggro or damage well. I have him up constantly.)
Dual Weapon:
-Backstab (Activated: Damage spike, all 3 upgrades)
-Unforgiving Chain (Passive Stacking +2% Crit Chance per hit up to 10)
NOTE: I choose NOT to use Explosive Strike as it eliminates my stacked +Crit from Unforgiving Chain. You move so fast it's almost impossible NOT to keep the max +20% crit chance from Unforgiving Chain up almost the whole fight.)
Scoundrel
-Blindside (Passive +Damage to enemies attacking other targets)
Specialist
-Speed (Sustained +Attack Speed)
Assassin
-Bloodlust (Passive: +Stamina upon enemy death)
-*Mark of Death (Didnt Upgrade. Activated: Single Target Damage Resist Debuff)
-Pinpoint Strikes (Upgrade. Activated +Crit Chance/+Attack Speed)
- Devious Harm (Passive. +1% Crit Damage per point of Cunning)
- Assassinate (2 Upgrade. Activated: Single Target damage spike)
Sabotage
-Miasmic Flask (Upgrade: Activated Control, Targeted AoE Stun)
*Fatiguing Fog (All 3 Upgrades)
*Confusion (Upgrade)
*Rush
*Honeslty I didnt start spending into Sabotage past Miasmic Flask until late game because my build was pretty much "done" way before that.
Hawke Overview: So basically with this setup, I single-handedly vaporize through hordes of enemies before they can even aggro to me. With insane attack speeds and emphasis on Crit/Crit dam you chew through enemies while retaining the ability to massive spike damage casters or Boss enemies as well as offer some Control. The character/team build surely isn't optimized but it was a helluva lot of fun and will get you through Normal mode no sweat.
Party Syngery: This is where your build really shines. I didn't make much of an effort to capitalize on the cross-class combo system but was GREATLY aided by Anders (or any Mage) spamming Haste whenever it's off of cooldown (+50% Attack Speed for ALL party members) and running a max Upgraded Heroic Aura (+20% Damage, +20% Crit Chance, +15% Attack, +8% Defense).
Isabella was specc'd as a Duel Wield off-tank with crowd control and Varric was my ranged AoE damager/debilitator/controller. I'll list Anders build just because the game forces him as the main Support Mage unless you assume that role as Mage Hawke.
Creation
-*Everything, max Upgraded. Seriously.
*Creation has great crowd control in Gllyph of Paralysis/Repulsion, Healing, and Activated/Sustained buffs.
Vengeance (Character Unique Specialization)
-Panacea (+50% health regen for backliners close to Anders. In my case Varric)
-Regroup (Mass Resurrect. Shame it's not in creation).
-Aid Allies (Group Heal. Again Anders gets exclusivity to this...aside from Mage Hawke).
- Vengeance (Only to unlock...)
- Swift Justice (80% Cooldown for ALL of Anders spells. Or...if I'm reading the tooltip right, +20% Cooldown reduction for all Spells)
Anyhow, hope that helps. DW Rogue is an absolute beast.
Modifié par Vech24, 18 mars 2011 - 07:29 .
#3
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 01:55
twedz
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yeah this helped loads thanks, pretty much standing toe to toe with ogres now 
gonna enjoy slicing and dicing through the rest of the game.
gonna enjoy slicing and dicing through the rest of the game.
#4
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 02:09
szsleepy
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This is a link to my Rogue in Post-Campaign. Hope it helps.
http://social.biowar...racter_id=68241
Just want to quickly add that I disagree with the above poster about Explosive Strike. Once the chain is complete (you'll notice little chain-links growing in a circle around the X beside the name of the enemy that you're attacking) Explosive Strike is an AMAZING finisher. All the other moves have 100% crit upgrades (i.e. Backstab, Twin Fangs, Assassinate, etc.) so the 20% crit buff from the chain is irrelevant except to build the damage for Explosive Strike (damage improves with more links in the chain).
Other than that, Subterfuge is great for setting up combos, but I chose Scoundrel for battlefield mobility.
Enjoy =)
One last edit... For some reason, only my weapons are updating correctly. For gear, I stacked +crit chance and +crit damage (i.e. dex/cunning bonuses) for all out damage. I had the full Champion Set at end-game. Attack speed gear is few and far between and stacking crit chance/crit damage is the rogue's bread and butter. IMHO.
http://social.biowar...racter_id=68241
Just want to quickly add that I disagree with the above poster about Explosive Strike. Once the chain is complete (you'll notice little chain-links growing in a circle around the X beside the name of the enemy that you're attacking) Explosive Strike is an AMAZING finisher. All the other moves have 100% crit upgrades (i.e. Backstab, Twin Fangs, Assassinate, etc.) so the 20% crit buff from the chain is irrelevant except to build the damage for Explosive Strike (damage improves with more links in the chain).
Other than that, Subterfuge is great for setting up combos, but I chose Scoundrel for battlefield mobility.
Enjoy =)
One last edit... For some reason, only my weapons are updating correctly. For gear, I stacked +crit chance and +crit damage (i.e. dex/cunning bonuses) for all out damage. I had the full Champion Set at end-game. Attack speed gear is few and far between and stacking crit chance/crit damage is the rogue's bread and butter. IMHO.
Modifié par szsleepy, 18 mars 2011 - 02:21 .
#5
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 03:06
twedz
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i just took 50% health off an ogre with explosive strike so i think ill keep that one
#6
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 03:35
termokanden
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It keeps doing pretty good damage throughout the game on BRITTLE enemies. Hail of Arrows on the other hand is not so great by the end of the game.
Modifié par termokanden, 18 mars 2011 - 03:36 .
#7
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 04:10
opposition01
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Why settle for taking half an Ogre's health when you can just one-shot obliterate the bastard? Along with pretty much all Boss level critters and below, with the exception of the big named elite bosses.
Rehwyn made a nice guide to a DW shadow/assassin build here:
http://social.biowar...-6483842-1.html
My preference however is for DW Duelist/Assassin. They are both uber bad ass. I agree with Vech about stacking attack speed, +crit, and +crit damage. Towards the end game you chance to crit wil be so naturally high and most of your abilities have guaranteed crits that you can give less thought to that one and focus on the two.
DO NOT overlook the cross class combos. They give 300% and 400% boosts to damage and jack your burst damage against bosses into the 10's of thousands. I found the DW Duelist/Assassin build particularly effective because it could take advantage of both Stagger and Brittle. Combine with Mark of Death from Assassin, and a mage with Hex of Torment, the multipliers just get ridiculous. Look at some of Rehwyn screenshots to see what I mean.
For levelling, and actually for end game as well, I do recommend dropping a few points into both Wilpower and Con. I took them both to 20 and I think it was a really worthwhile investment.
The extra health allowed me to survive and recover from the odd mishap or aoe you get caught in. The extra Will just meant an unending string of death at the end of my blades. The assassin tree has a nice talent for regaining stamina as all the little crunchies fall, but it doesn't help much in a prolonged fight with a big named elite boss. The extra points in Will really shined through there.
Rehwyn made a nice guide to a DW shadow/assassin build here:
http://social.biowar...-6483842-1.html
My preference however is for DW Duelist/Assassin. They are both uber bad ass. I agree with Vech about stacking attack speed, +crit, and +crit damage. Towards the end game you chance to crit wil be so naturally high and most of your abilities have guaranteed crits that you can give less thought to that one and focus on the two.
DO NOT overlook the cross class combos. They give 300% and 400% boosts to damage and jack your burst damage against bosses into the 10's of thousands. I found the DW Duelist/Assassin build particularly effective because it could take advantage of both Stagger and Brittle. Combine with Mark of Death from Assassin, and a mage with Hex of Torment, the multipliers just get ridiculous. Look at some of Rehwyn screenshots to see what I mean.
For levelling, and actually for end game as well, I do recommend dropping a few points into both Wilpower and Con. I took them both to 20 and I think it was a really worthwhile investment.
The extra health allowed me to survive and recover from the odd mishap or aoe you get caught in. The extra Will just meant an unending string of death at the end of my blades. The assassin tree has a nice talent for regaining stamina as all the little crunchies fall, but it doesn't help much in a prolonged fight with a big named elite boss. The extra points in Will really shined through there.
#8
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 04:22
szsleepy
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opposition01 wrote...
The extra Will just meant an unending string of death at the end of my blades. The assassin tree has a nice talent for regaining stamina as all the little crunchies fall, but it doesn't help much in a prolonged fight with a big named elite boss. The extra points in Will really shined through there.
Scoundrel has an awesome passive talent that gives +1% stamina regeneration for every auto attack. Works great when you're building an Unforgiving Chain. Combine that with the Assassin +5% stamina for every kill, and you'll never need to quaff a stam pot again.
#9
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:22
twedz
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building a good unforgiving chain then finnishing with an explosive strike allows me to take down pretty much anyone with ease now. best playthrough so far, ive compleated it 4 times (2X mage, 2X warrior) and i am enjoying the DW Rogue alot more than any
#10
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:39
Anyrandomname
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so the general opinion is that most dw talents rnt worth it. I usually go assasin/duelist. awesome defense and critchance. Does any1 recommend specialist for speed?? not sure if it would b worth it :/
#11
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:49
TG-Nalfen
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If you have assassin with DW you want shadow over duelist to help dump threat from those massive hits or you will get slaughtered.
duelist is ok but on nightmare and to a lesser extent hard, the defensive bonuses will not keep you alive. Inconspicuous is the only skill that give you a 100% threat dump, so you can stay alive after doing 140k dmg in 1 skill
duelist is ok but on nightmare and to a lesser extent hard, the defensive bonuses will not keep you alive. Inconspicuous is the only skill that give you a 100% threat dump, so you can stay alive after doing 140k dmg in 1 skill
#12
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 02:36
twedz
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i havn,t realy payed much attention to the assasin class, does it have any good attack moves or is it primarily stat lowering/raising?
#13
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 02:43
TG-Nalfen
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Assassins are the redeeming factor of the Rogue class, this is where most of your damage will come from.
The big ones are:
Assassinate - single highest damage ability in the game
Devious Harm - basically double the value of any points of cunning you have for critical damage
Mark of Death+Doom - lower most enemies damage resistance to 0 or less
i posted some screenshots of 140k dmg from assassinate so yeah assassins hit... HARD!
The big ones are:
Assassinate - single highest damage ability in the game
Devious Harm - basically double the value of any points of cunning you have for critical damage
Mark of Death+Doom - lower most enemies damage resistance to 0 or less
i posted some screenshots of 140k dmg from assassinate so yeah assassins hit... HARD!
#14
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 03:36
ScroguBlitzen
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TG-Nalfen wrote...
Inconspicuous is the only skill that give you a 100% threat dump...
Stealth gives you 100% threat dump.
Decoy gives you 100% threat dump (also Shadow tree).
Back to Back with Invisible Friend gives you 100% threat dump.
#15
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 05:29
opposition01
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I didn't have any real problems with an Assassin/Duelist on Hard, nor on the few battles I went back and tried on Nightmare.
With Twin Dragons, Assassinate, and Vendetta, that's three insta-kills on anything less than a big boss. Vendetta I actually loved most for the tp cross field. Those times when my rogue did catch aggro he couldn't shake, I merrily lead a few of the mobs a ways from the fight, then snapped instantly back with vendetta on one of the mobs left occupied by my tank. Wiped them up, and by the time the other mobs get back my full team is ready to smash them. I actually found it a nice way to split some of the larger waves that spawn so Aveline or Fenris didn't get overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
A large part of making a duelist/assassin work is managing the rest of your team. Stack up Aveline's aggro skills and give her a +threat weapon. Or hold your DW back a moment or two so Fenris can swing that sword around and generate threat before you launch in with the massive numbers.
One of my favorite tactics is very dependent on the teleport aspect of Vendetta. A few times when I had a large mob spawn I would open with walking bomb on a Lt. in the middle and then Vendetta. Instantly eliminates like half the group. Granted, haven't tried that on Nightmare, only Hard. If Walking Bomb applied friendly fire then this is suddenly very very bad
With Twin Dragons, Assassinate, and Vendetta, that's three insta-kills on anything less than a big boss. Vendetta I actually loved most for the tp cross field. Those times when my rogue did catch aggro he couldn't shake, I merrily lead a few of the mobs a ways from the fight, then snapped instantly back with vendetta on one of the mobs left occupied by my tank. Wiped them up, and by the time the other mobs get back my full team is ready to smash them. I actually found it a nice way to split some of the larger waves that spawn so Aveline or Fenris didn't get overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
A large part of making a duelist/assassin work is managing the rest of your team. Stack up Aveline's aggro skills and give her a +threat weapon. Or hold your DW back a moment or two so Fenris can swing that sword around and generate threat before you launch in with the massive numbers.
One of my favorite tactics is very dependent on the teleport aspect of Vendetta. A few times when I had a large mob spawn I would open with walking bomb on a Lt. in the middle and then Vendetta. Instantly eliminates like half the group. Granted, haven't tried that on Nightmare, only Hard. If Walking Bomb applied friendly fire then this is suddenly very very bad
#16
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 06:07
TG-Nalfen
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ScroguBlitzen wrote...
TG-Nalfen wrote...
Inconspicuous is the only skill that give you a 100% threat dump...
Stealth gives you 100% threat dump.
Decoy gives you 100% threat dump (also Shadow tree).
Back to Back with Invisible Friend gives you 100% threat dump.
Actually as soon as you do any damage your threat comes back when you stealth so it buys you time and threat decays over time but if you open up with a 100k dmg attack you will not shed agro this way.
