52 réponses à ce sujet

[AustinKain]

Was this added to the rules after the affects of Awakening. As i remeber somewhere in other canon that Wardens were allowed to hold land and the such.

My real question though is what the hell was with ORIGINS/AWAKENING.

Honestly that part made me laugh so hard and still does even on other playthroughs.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Apparently this is something they added. Probably because I put a jester on the throne.

[Pileyourbodies]

Wardens weren't supposed to get involved in politics they're supposed to fight the blight. This rule came about because of the Warden keep issue where a warden tried to become king. Wardens lose all titles and connections when they become wardens officially this is stated in Origins.

The reason The warden gets involved in politics is because he needs allies to stop the blight to get these allies to support him he'll have to remove loghain. Wardens can do whatever they want to do to rid the world of a blight.

Also is his wording Arn't allowed or arn't supposed to? Exact wording here is important.

Modifié par Pileyourbodies, 18 mars 2011 - 03:26 .

[Gabey5]

the wardens never did get involved. Ferelden was a special case as the wardens were kicked out and recently returned. The wardens fight the blight alongside the current armies, those armies were in disarray, wardens do what it takes to defeat the blight,but it usually doesn't take getting involved in politics. They are to hold some land and fight the darkspawn

[Tesslyn]

But the Awakening thing was Warden owning the land as a test case? It was actually mentioned that how well the Warden Commander did would affect wether Wardens held land over lesser nobles in other places..

The Wardens not getting involved in Politics is mentioned by Duncan in alot of Origins.. I think.

[MadCat221]

"Don't get politically involved" gets thrown out the window by the Wardens in the Anderfels, from what I remember. The kings are so ineffectual that the people there look to the Wardens instead.

[abusing]

Traditionally, Wardens were bound to stay neutral in all political matters. This precedent was violated in Ferelden with the Soldier's Peak incident. It was explained in the Warden's Keep DLC, if I remember the Warden-Commander rebelled from the Ferelden king or something along those lines. The Wardens were then expelled from Ferelden.

They were allowed back into the kingdom eventually, and taking down Loghain in Origins was an absolute necessity to defeat the blight, but once the Warden became the effective Arl of Amaranthine, a completely new precedent was set for the entire order of the Grey Wardens.

I would expect simply that this new precedent in Ferelden simply hadn't caught on in the rest of Thedas yet.

[TJPags]

Tesslyn wrote...

But the Awakening thing was Warden owning the land as a test case? It was actually mentioned that how well the Warden Commander did would affect wether Wardens held land over lesser nobles in other places..

The Wardens not getting involved in Politics is mentioned by Duncan in alot of Origins.. I think.

Yes, correct.

Granting the Wardens Amaranthine is a big "thank you" to the Hero of Ferelden, and a test case.

Really, makes no sense to have granted it to an Orlesian Warden - for so many reasons - but then, I've given up on certain alternatives making sense in the DA universe.

[TheBlackBaron]

Generally speaking they try not to, as it affects their ability to effectively recruit new members and respond to Darkspawn threats as they appear. If they make enemies that can throw up blocks to that, things can get very messy.

Ferelden is a special case, as you've got the late king's only remaining blood heir in the Wardens, not to mention the fact that there's only two of them in the country leading to them needing to gather political allies in order to defeat the Blight.

The only other place this gets broken is in the Anderfels, which again comes about more due to necessity and the lack of a centralized political power in the area.

[Pileyourbodies]

TJPags wrote...

Tesslyn wrote...

But the Awakening thing was Warden owning the land as a test case? It was actually mentioned that how well the Warden Commander did would affect wether Wardens held land over lesser nobles in other places..

The Wardens not getting involved in Politics is mentioned by Duncan in alot of Origins.. I think.

Yes, correct.

Granting the Wardens Amaranthine is a big "thank you" to the Hero of Ferelden, and a test case.

Really, makes no sense to have granted it to an Orlesian Warden - for so many reasons - but then, I've given up on certain alternatives making sense in the DA universe.

It makes more sense to give it to an Orlesian warden lets see how many fereldan wardens there are
Either the hero of fereldan and Alistair. The hero can die and Alistair can be made king or replaced by Loghain.
If the hero lives it makes sense for him to get the city but Alistair would never ever appoint loghain someplace and after the whole civil war none of the nobles would be happy with Loghain being there. But the wardens still deserve a reward so since it was an orlesian warden who came at the 11th hour to help out some Orlais gets a reward!

[MadCat221]

mrsph wrote...

When they got involved with the politics of Feralden they got kicked out.

That didn't work out well when the archdemon picked Feralden for the blight.

They got involved because of the vendetta of one woman who was forced into the group anyway, for political reasons.

[AustinKain]

Umm EVERYONE is forgetting that our WARDEN got involved in Orzaamaar politics. I mean hell the warden picks the new king, after helping one side or the other(or both for the xp).

[TJPags]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Tesslyn wrote...

But the Awakening thing was Warden owning the land as a test case? It was actually mentioned that how well the Warden Commander did would affect wether Wardens held land over lesser nobles in other places..

The Wardens not getting involved in Politics is mentioned by Duncan in alot of Origins.. I think.

Yes, correct.

Granting the Wardens Amaranthine is a big "thank you" to the Hero of Ferelden, and a test case.

Really, makes no sense to have granted it to an Orlesian Warden - for so many reasons - but then, I've given up on certain alternatives making sense in the DA universe.

It makes more sense to give it to an Orlesian warden lets see how many fereldan wardens there are
Either the hero of fereldan and Alistair. The hero can die and Alistair can be made king or replaced by Loghain.
If the hero lives it makes sense for him to get the city but Alistair would never ever appoint loghain someplace and after the whole civil war none of the nobles would be happy with Loghain being there. But the wardens still deserve a reward so since it was an orlesian warden who came at the 11th hour to help out some Orlais gets a reward!

Except - a Warden can be Prince Consort and still get the Arling, so why can't Alistair get both?

And since we are expected to believe that people in Ferelden are still so traumatized by the Orlesian occupation (hence Loghain's preoccupation with Orlais during the Blight) why on EARTH would they agree to make an Orlesian a noble in Ferelden again?

[In Exile]

The moral principle is to not get involved. Whether or not the Wardens actually do it is a differnet case.

[Pileyourbodies]

Austin...We already explained the warden situation. Wardens can get involved with whatever they need to get inolved in to beat a blight.

Alistair is busy running the kingdom to be a Bann or an Arl.
Also alistair mentions fereldan is having some trouble with Orlais so giving their order of wardens a city might be seen as a way to appease them.

[Darth Obvious]

The quintessential Grey Warden decided who sat on the throne in DA:O. If that's not getting involved in politics, then I don't know what is.

[MadCat221]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

Austin...We already explained the warden situation. Wardens can get involved with whatever they need to get inolved in to beat a blight.

Alistair is busy running the kingdom to be a Bann or an Arl.
Also alistair mentions fereldan is having some trouble with Orlais so giving their order of wardens a city might be seen as a way to appease them.

I doubt that appeasing Orlais would go over well with his own people.  The wounds of the occupation are still a little tender.

Besides, many hints point to Orlais being the setting for the next game, so odds are the player char in DA3 will be giving Orlais plenty of other headaches to worry about.

Modifié par MadCat221, 18 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[Dark Specie]

MadCat221 wrote...

"Don't get politically involved" gets thrown out the window by the Wardens in the Anderfels, from what I remember. The kings are so ineffectual that the people there look to the Wardens instead.

Well, it's a bit of a borderline case, as I understand it. The Wardens have a lot of influence there, by the sound of it, but offically, they're not ruling... Yet. It may change in the future though depending on a variety of factors though. But the thign is, althorugh the "never get involved politically" is supposed to be the norm, it doesn't always quite work that way, as our Warden and possibly Alistair  are prime examples of.

[specter7237]

Lol Alistair is a Grey Warden King! Call that not getting involved in politics. Personally if my warden had been there, he would've likely slaughtered every Qunari in the city.

[Raiil]

Alistair's codex entry as king has him leaving the Wardens to become King, so he's effectively an ex-Warden. I suppose there's Anders leaving, and then Alistair leaving. I doubt they blocked Alistair's acenscion to the throne on the grounds that having a Warden-friendly King is always good.


Of course, in my personal DA-verse, by the time my Amell left Amaranthine, she's so anti-Warden that it makes Loghain look like a true believer pre-Landsmeet. I imagine Alistair's right behind her.

[Nyaore]

AustinKain wrote...

Umm EVERYONE is forgetting that our WARDEN got involved in Orzaamaar politics. I mean hell the warden picks the new king, after helping one side or the other(or both for the xp).

To gain help against a Blight no less. They also had the opportunity to put one of their own and/or themselves on the throne, amongst many other things.
From what I can tell the former rules about not getting involved in politics tend to matter little when a blight is ravaging the lands and every bit of help is necessary in order to combat it. The Archdemon would have long since destroyed the countryside if the Wardens had waited for the political schism in Orzammar to end on it's own terms, and since they needed the assistence of the Dwarves it was deemed necessary to overstep their bounds. Besides as others have pointed out, it's much more of an ideal than a hard lined law for the Wardens to avoid inserting themselves in politics - as the Warden order is practically in control of the Anderfels.

[unclee]

They couldn't get involved in political matters because the almighty plot demanded it. That whole encounter was there just so that you can see your sibling as a warden (if you saved them in the deep roads). They just used that as an excuse to keep Carver/Bethany from joining back up with you.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Taleroth]

Did you not play Warden's Keep?

There are exceptions. When the Wardens are the political entity (Awakening) and when it's required to fight a Blight (Origins).

But when neither is going on, they're to stay out. This was one of the first things mentioned in Warden's Keep.

[erilben]

What's the problem with this? This is nothing new. Duncan says Wardens must be neutral when you try to get him to help fight in the city elf origin. This comes up with Warden's Keep DLC. There were Wardens that weren't happy with Sophia because Wardens should be neutral.

Do y'all think it's impossible for people to break rules?

Modifié par erilben, 18 mars 2011 - 04:43 .