313 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

Gatt9 wrote...

There's actually some pretty interesting data in here. Generally speaking, casually inspection indicates there's a very high correlation on some interesting points. I'm half tempted to actually do a plot.

-If a person was to list ME2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3 as an RPG their list is likely limited to the PS2 era forward and contains primarily games that are disputed to be RPGs.

-If a person was to list Fallout 1 or 2, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate, their list is likely spanning at least SNES era forward.

Casually, I'd venture that there's a strong correlation between age of gamer and depth of RPG.In short. I'd also venture that the younger you are, the more likely you are to list games that do not fit the RPG framework and fall into other gameplay catagories.

Other interesting takeaways...

-FF7 doesn't seem to be showing strong correlation, which is unexpected for me, I strongly suspected that there'd be a strong correlation between Oblivion/ME2 and FF7.

-If you listed TES 1-3, you're unlikely to list Oblivion or Fallout 3.

-Surprisingly little representation of Icewind Dale, Diablo, Might & Magic, or the Goldbox Games.

I played all goldboxes and many other SSI products, but I can't for damnation remember could I kill NPCs in goldboxes series.

And Buck Rogers was my favorit gold boxer. Buck Rogers: Countdown to doomsday.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gatt9 wrote...

There's actually some pretty interesting data in here. Generally speaking, casually inspection indicates there's a very high correlation on some interesting points. I'm half tempted to actually do a plot.

-If a person was to list ME2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3 as an RPG their list is likely limited to the PS2 era forward and contains primarily games that are disputed to be RPGs.

-If a person was to list Fallout 1 or 2, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate, their list is likely spanning at least SNES era forward.

Casually, I'd venture that there's a strong correlation between age of gamer and depth of RPG.In short. I'd also venture that the younger you are, the more likely you are to list games that do not fit the RPG framework and fall into other gameplay catagories.

I find it terribly sad that you're describing eras by console design.

It's probably a useful metric, but it depresses me.

[TMZuk]

Fallout 2.
Darklands.
Baldur's Gate 2.
Planescape - Torment.

On fifth.. Perhaps Dragon Age: Origins, or Fallout: New Vegas. Neither is old enough to see how they hold up to the test of time. At the moment, I think New Vegas have more that speaks for it, than DA:O.

DA2 Is not an RPG. For a quadzillion reasons, but any game where you can have a bloody fight with exploding people all over the place, while dock-workers and ordinary people not only go around their business as usual, utterly ignoring you, but also manages to not get hit by any of the flying swords, missiles and spells, cannot really claim to be an RPG.

In DA.O it was rather disturbing when it happened in the barfight in Lotheringen, in DA2 it happens all the time.

[Savior Indra]

In order of personal favorite

1. Dragon Age 2
2.Knights of the Old Republic
3.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
4.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
5. Mass Effect 1

Explanation:
1. I really enjoyed Dragon Age 2.  (For me) It was the perfect combination of player choice and compelling story. I also enjoyed how the story ramped up through each of the acts, I liked how it didn't focus on a standard fantasy (kill bad guy/thing that is threatening the whole world) and made the game much more personal and focused on a person that rose from obscurity to legend and the trials that plagued him/her along the way. Much more realistic story-wise to me. Combat was also much more tactical and enjoyable to me. I actually had to pause in order to save my party and i still ended up dying a bunch through the whole game. The reuse of maps annoyed me a bit, but I care more about a story in an RPG than maps, or inventory etc. Also much more realistic storywise when you don't tell your companions how they should dress.
2. Loved the duality. Enjoyed how i could choose to be evil, good or somewhere in between. Hate to be sheparded into the 'save the day' role. Sometimes its much more fun to be evil and kill everyone.
3/4. (DAO) linear story telling and horrificly done combat dropped it from #1 or 2 to 3/4 for me. I don't care about the combat as much but it definitely affects how i feel about the game. The story was extremely linear for me. (Again) Hated how you were forced to become a Grey Warden, and when all the other ones were dead you couldn't say "**** this I'm outta here, see you guys in Tevinter!" The game railroaded you into always saving the day. DA2 for me had better storytelling and a much deeper story. The focus one Hawke made it much deeper and personal for me than the railroading of DAO. (ME2) Excellent game, but again, linearity dropped it from a higher position for me.
5.Kinda the same reasons as 3/4.

[AmyBA]

Gatt9 wrote...

There's actually some pretty interesting data in here. Generally speaking, casually inspection indicates there's a very high correlation on some interesting points. I'm half tempted to actually do a plot.

-If a person was to list ME2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3 as an RPG their list is likely limited to the PS2 era forward and contains primarily games that are disputed to be RPGs.

-If a person was to list Fallout 1 or 2, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate, their list is likely spanning at least SNES era forward.

Casually, I'd venture that there's a strong correlation between age of gamer and depth of RPG.In short. I'd also venture that the younger you are, the more likely you are to list games that do not fit the RPG framework and fall into other gameplay catagories.

Other interesting takeaways...

-FF7 doesn't seem to be showing strong correlation, which is unexpected for me, I strongly suspected that there'd be a strong correlation between Oblivion/ME2 and FF7.

-If you listed TES 1-3, you're unlikely to list Oblivion or Fallout 3.

-Surprisingly little representation of Icewind Dale, Diablo, Might & Magic, or the Goldbox Games.

I listed Mass Effect and Fallout 1 as part of my list, and have played almost all the others you mentioned.

Limiting people to the PS2 or SNES gaming era and forward is a bit unfair, as you can't really judge a persons gaming preference saying they like games only from this era simply because they like games that were released during or after that era was big.

I am also an older gamer, as you seem to think people who like Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3 type games are all younger.

I also do not get why people who would like Oblivion and ME2 would automatically like FF7? They are entirely different games, the 3 of them, from each other.

I can tell you I thoroughly enjoy a wide variety of games, including those types that are "newer" and those that are "older" games like Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima, Dragonlance, Bards Tale, Wizardry and a multitude of others.

I think you are really reaching here and generalizing quite a bit, I do not think there is as much to it as you think.

Modifié par AmyBA, 19 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[Nathander Von Eric]

The first RPG I ever played was Final fantasy 3 (US) on the SNES. I fell in love with the genre and it's still my favorite today.

I've since played a ton of console RPG's and when I finally decided that a PC was meant for things other than work or running programs I started in on the PC RPG's and have been playing both newer games and searching out older games.
I've even got a hold of a couple of old PC's so that I could play some older games without having to tear my hair out to get them to work.

I'm 44.

I'm amazed that no one has mentioned (That I saw) any MUDD or Roguelike games.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 19 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[Drake Sigar]

In no particular order…

Betrayal At Krondor
Stonekeep
Fallout 2
Baldur’s Gate 2
Vampire the Masquarade: Bloodlines

[Elanareon]

1 - BG series
2 - DA:O
3 - NWN2
4 - NWN1
5 - KOTOR series

[Taltherion]

No by a long way. The reason should be well known to anybody reading the forums.

Top 5:
Baldur's Gate
Planescape Torment
Knights of the Old Republic
Morrowind
Dragon Age Origins
...
Fallout 1-3
Mass Effect 1 (even Mass Effect 2 is higher on m list than Dragon Age 2)

[bEVEsthda]

I've not finished DA2 yet. But I don't see any chance of DA2 to make it into any 5 best list of mine.

1: Morrowind (whole package)
2. Baldurs Gate (entire saga)
3: Vampire the Masquarade: Bloodlines
4: Fallout 3 (whole package)
5: Icewind Dale (entire saga)

Why IWD? might some wonder. (It is a highly linear game after all) Because: No health or magic auto-regen! Limited inventory! Story and sentiment! Sense of Journeying! Big party! Art! Music! Every player-char player created! Exciting and imaginative locations/dungeons.
 
I have yet to play Fallout Vegas. But yes, I have played Planescape Torment, for those who thought it was missing from my list. 5 is a very short list.

I'm sure DA:O would easily make it into my 10 best list.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 19 mars 2011 - 01:31 .

[Senzen Sumnor]

These are probably my favorites...
Knights of the Old Republic 1&2
Icewind Dale
Baldur's Gate 2
Neverwinter Nights 1&2

[moilami]

AmyBA wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

There's actually some pretty interesting data in here. Generally speaking, casually inspection indicates there's a very high correlation on some interesting points. I'm half tempted to actually do a plot.

-If a person was to list ME2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3 as an RPG their list is likely limited to the PS2 era forward and contains primarily games that are disputed to be RPGs.

-If a person was to list Fallout 1 or 2, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate, their list is likely spanning at least SNES era forward.

Casually, I'd venture that there's a strong correlation between age of gamer and depth of RPG.In short. I'd also venture that the younger you are, the more likely you are to list games that do not fit the RPG framework and fall into other gameplay catagories.

Other interesting takeaways...

-FF7 doesn't seem to be showing strong correlation, which is unexpected for me, I strongly suspected that there'd be a strong correlation between Oblivion/ME2 and FF7.

-If you listed TES 1-3, you're unlikely to list Oblivion or Fallout 3.

-Surprisingly little representation of Icewind Dale, Diablo, Might & Magic, or the Goldbox Games.

I listed Mass Effect and Fallout 1 as part of my list, and have played almost all the others you mentioned.

Limiting people to the PS2 or SNES gaming era and forward is a bit unfair, as you can't really judge a persons gaming preference saying they like games only from this era simply because they like games that were released during or after that era was big.

I am also an older gamer, as you seem to think people who like Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3 type games are all younger.

I also do not get why people who would like Oblivion and ME2 would automatically like FF7? They are entirely different games, the 3 of them, from each other.

I can tell you I thoroughly enjoy a wide variety of games, including those types that are "newer" and those that are "older" games like Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima, Dragonlance, Bards Tale, Wizardry and a multitude of others.

I think you are really reaching here and generalizing quite a bit, I do not think there is as much to it as you think.

But you are a minority, and that minority will become even smaller in numbers in the future.

New generations grow all the time and they are majority and most of them have no idea what an RPG is.


Edit: Was just saying that there are reasons for these "evolution" of RPG things lol.

Modifié par moilami, 19 mars 2011 - 01:39 .

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

There's actually some pretty interesting data in here. Generally speaking, casually inspection indicates there's a very high correlation on some interesting points. I'm half tempted to actually do a plot.

-If a person was to list ME2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3 as an RPG their list is likely limited to the PS2 era forward and contains primarily games that are disputed to be RPGs.

-If a person was to list Fallout 1 or 2, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate, their list is likely spanning at least SNES era forward.

Casually, I'd venture that there's a strong correlation between age of gamer and depth of RPG.In short. I'd also venture that the younger you are, the more likely you are to list games that do not fit the RPG framework and fall into other gameplay catagories.

I find this somewhat interesting since the games which are 'disputed' to be RPGs seem to be at your discretion alone. Even Morrowind, Mass Effect, and Jade Empire all met with their fair share of criticism.

[Cid Orlandeau]

I like the old Games, but to be honest with you all in my best opinion I'd have to say our definitions of "RPGs" Do change overtime such as medical science being constantly evolving. There will always be games once considered a RPG could then become an Adventure game. For me my top 5 RPGs are simple.
1. Morrowind
2. Dragon Age Origins and Awakening
3. Gothic III
4. Mass Effect 2
5. Bard's Tale

[lsdiskewl]

Savior Indra wrote...

In order of personal favorite

1. Dragon Age 2
2.Knights of the Old Republic
3.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
4.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
5. Mass Effect 1

Explanation:
1. I really enjoyed Dragon Age 2.  (For me) It was the perfect combination of player choice and compelling story. I also enjoyed how the story ramped up through each of the acts, I liked how it didn't focus on a standard fantasy (kill bad guy/thing that is threatening the whole world) and made the game much more personal and focused on a person that rose from obscurity to legend and the trials that plagued him/her along the way. Much more realistic story-wise to me. Combat was also much more tactical and enjoyable to me. I actually had to pause in order to save my party and i still ended up dying a bunch through the whole game. The reuse of maps annoyed me a bit, but I care more about a story in an RPG than maps, or inventory etc. Also much more realistic storywise when you don't tell your companions how they should dress.
2. Loved the duality. Enjoyed how i could choose to be evil, good or somewhere in between. Hate to be sheparded into the 'save the day' role. Sometimes its much more fun to be evil and kill everyone.
3/4. (DAO) linear story telling and horrificly done combat dropped it from #1 or 2 to 3/4 for me. I don't care about the combat as much but it definitely affects how i feel about the game. The story was extremely linear for me. (Again) Hated how you were forced to become a Grey Warden, and when all the other ones were dead you couldn't say "**** this I'm outta here, see you guys in Tevinter!" The game railroaded you into always saving the day. DA2 for me had better storytelling and a much deeper story. The focus one Hawke made it much deeper and personal for me than the railroading of DAO. (ME2) Excellent game, but again, linearity dropped it from a higher position for me.
5.Kinda the same reasons as 3/4.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....HAHAHAHAHA IR HAZ BUCKET

[lsdiskewl]

ME 1-2, DA1-2 are not even in the top 10.

Modifié par lsdiskewl, 20 mars 2011 - 04:01 .

[TJSolo]

This is in no particular order and are just the quickest 5 that came to mind.

Vampire - Bloodlines
Mass Effect 1
Dragon Age Origins
NeverWinter Nights 2
Lost Odyssey

[Karazax]

Savior Indra wrote...

In order of personal favorite

1. Dragon Age 2
2.Knights of the Old Republic
3.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
4.Dragon Age:Origins/Mass Effect 2
5. Mass Effect 1

Explanation:
1. I really enjoyed Dragon Age 2.  (For me) It was the perfect combination of player choice and compelling story. I also enjoyed how the story ramped up through each of the acts, I liked how it didn't focus on a standard fantasy (kill bad guy/thing that is threatening the whole world) and made the game much more personal and focused on a person that rose from obscurity to legend and the trials that plagued him/her along the way.

I have heard several people say this, but is it really true?  I mean the last two acts still end basicly the same way with kill ultimate bad guy regardless of what choices you make to lead up to those encounters.  It's just that instead of save the world you are save the city, and no matter what you do the city ends up the same at the end of the day or you die and have to reload and try again.

Savior Indra wrote...
Combat was also much more tactical and enjoyable to me. I actually had to pause in order to save my party and i still ended up dying a bunch through the whole game.

 

That is pretty contrasting to my experience.  I played on Nightmare, and yes it was hard and I died, but not because the game was tactical in nature, but because mobs appear out of no where on top of your support characters.  In fact the most tactical thing you can do is run your party away from the combat area when combat starts, so all the respawns and mobs are coming from the same direction.  But that isn't a very immersive experience.  In contrast my Mage/Mage/fighter/rogue primary party for DA:O felt much more tactical in the way I would pause and control every player's position and actions to avoid friendly fire.  This was required in DA2 on nightmare as well, but because of the random respawn points for the waves which put mobs right on top of your support characters, it was much harder to position your party tactically without  running to another room at the start of combat.

Savior Indra wrote...The reuse of maps annoyed me a bit, but I care more about a story in an RPG than maps, or inventory etc. Also much more realistic storywise when you don't tell your companions how they should dress.

Perhaps, but you still tell them what rings, belts and amulets, along with some of their weapons... The realism is further broken when I keep finding gear that says useable by Hawke only...  Part of the typical RPG experience is leveling up and developing your character, but also the loot upgrades.  I personally preferred having all the gear useable by all the characters.  Sure it may be "unrealistic" to dress them, but I always considered it to be me giving them a gift, or their split of the spoils of war.

Savior Indra wrote...
2. Loved the duality. Enjoyed how i could choose to be evil, good or somewhere in between. Hate to be sheparded into the 'save the day' role. Sometimes its much more fun to be evil and kill everyone.

But does that decision change the end result of the story in any way?  It seems to me that the 3 acts end the same way regardless of the methods used to reach them.

Savior Indra wrote...

3/4. (DAO) linear story telling and horrificly done combat dropped it from #1 or 2 to 3/4 for me. I don't care about the combat as much but it definitely affects how i feel about the game. The story was extremely linear for me. (Again) Hated how you were forced to become a Grey Warden, and when all the other ones were dead you couldn't say "**** this I'm outta here, see you guys in Tevinter!" The game railroaded you into always saving the day. DA2 for me had better storytelling and a much deeper story. The focus one Hawke made it much deeper and personal for me than the railroading of DAO. (ME2) Excellent game, but again, linearity dropped it from a higher position for me.

 

I just can't see how DA2 isn't at least as linear?  You can't say bleep this, I'm outta Kirkwall either.  You can't change the end result of any of the acts regardless of what you do.  Sure you can change some of the details leading up to them, and the way you are percieved.  But the choices that matter, aren't really choices at all.

Modifié par Karazax, 20 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[PhreedomX]

1. Baldur's Gate 2
2. Fallout
3. Fallout 2
4. Baldur's Gate
5. Dragon Age: Origins

No, DA2 is definitely not in my list.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Nope...still a fun game though.

[Benu5]

No, there are many more above it. I liked it, but it was too disapointing to be top 5

[cainx10a]

1. Dragon Age Origins
2. Fallout 3 and New Vegas ()
3. Sacred 2 and its Expansion
4. Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer
5. KOTOR 1 & 2

DA2 didn't meet my expectation. But it's a decent game nonetheless.

[Teh Chozen Wun]

1) Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines
2) Lunar: The Silver Star
3) TES: Daggerfall
4) Jade Empire
5) Dragon Age 2

I wanted to put up DA:O as 5 but I never completed the main storyline.

[Harmless Crunch]

Yup:
1)Mass effect 1
2)Mass effect 2
3)KOTOR
4)DA2
5)DA:O

[Andy379]

Mass effect 2
Oblivion
Fallout 3
Fable
DA2 > DA:O so yes