40 réponses à ce sujet

[Jacks-Up]

They use a flower to cure dogs that drink of Dark spawn blood why won't it work on anyone else?

[Wintermist]

Probably because it doesn't work on people. Seems like a justifyable truth to me.

[eqzitara]

People can survive dark spawn blood, they just go mad. Different species different effects some people can survive poisons that would kill a person born into a different region of the world. Dogs also have much smaller brains so maybe it just effects a part of the brain they don't have.

[Red Viking]

The Calling goes into a little more detail about this. Apparently, surviving the darkspawn taint is pretty much The Joining ritual for dogs.

[Malkut]

My impression of the darkspawn was that they were not a race, but a single intelligence. They are a functioning group-mind, and the "taint" is not a curse or poison, but the means of transmission that they send and receive thoughts over. When a person is tainted, their mind is connected to the Darkspawn overmind, which for people either kills them or drives them mad. Animals seem to either be controlled by the overmind, or killed.

I think mubari are kind of in between people (who go mad or die) and animals (who are controlled or die), and as such, the taint affects them slightly less. Thus, they can be cured, or at least survive long enough to become accustomed to it.

Modifié par Malkut, 17 novembre 2009 - 04:47 .

[eqzitara]

Darkspawn are not a single intelligence but are controlled by a single intelligence. The archivist in the second book is proof of that(as well as "aged grey wardens" see 2nd book as well). Darkspawn are heavily influenced by the the single influence being the old god, either slumbering or blighted.

[Dtelm]

And whose to say the dog is truely cured? Grey Wardens can prolong the lethal effects of the blight with whatever concoction they cook up for the joining. Perhaps the flower is one of the ingrediants? Grey Wardens still die of the blight, perhaps so would dogs if they lived long enough for the "Cure" to wear off.

[Malkut]

I don't have the books. Are they a single mind, a single mind with many personas, or a group of minds networked together?

[MachDelta]

The long answer would be difference in metabolisms. For example, there are lots of foodstuffs that are perfectly safe for humans to consume but which are, in sufficient quanity, potentially lethal for a dog to consume. Popular examples include: Chocolate, Grapes/Raisins, Onions, Garlic, Macadamia Nuts, and Hops (beer). Perhaps the flower in question is metabolized differently in dogs, or is a metabolic trigger for an immune response that would destroy the foreign bodies.



Short answer: A wizard did it.

[Red Viking]

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

[Malkut]

I'm legitimately curious about how the taint and the Darkspawn group-mind actually works.

[eqzitara]

Blight transfers thoughts throughout "tainted" beings. Dark spawns seem to rely on the thought of the whole rather then themselves besides primal urges to kill and such but they do think for themselves at least a little bit. Even during non-blight they have patrols in the deep roads and raidings.

Modifié par eqzitara, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[Saurel]

MachDelta wrote...


Short answer: A wizard did it.

Alternatively: Humans can't be cured because it would be too Flowery:bandit:

[Malkut]

I can think of a couple of ways that it might work. For instance, they could have individual minds, but they could be caught up in a mental struggle for dominance, with each mind trying to impose it's will on the others through the taint. An archdemon would unarguably have the most powerful mind of all tainted creatures, and therefore would be able to control and organize the darkspawn.



Another possibility is that pool their intelligence. They could be like a computer, which is powerful, but has a limited amount of resources to think with.



Alphas and Emissaries could achieve individual intelligence of a sort by hogging all the "bandwidth", leaving the grunts with very little to think with, putting them on the level of the higher apes. Tainting an Old God would add the immense resources of that god's mind to the pool, making them on the whole more intelligent and organized.



We know so little of them, but based on what we do know, they must be very different from us. Kinda scary to think about.

[Quaxo]

Actually, it's a mix of lyrium and darkspawn blood that's used in the ritual for Warden recruits. I don't recall anyone ever saying the dog is completely cured, only that he will recover. However, it is plausible that the flower may affect the dog in such a way and not a human.

Red Viking wrote...

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

Actually, that's completely wrong. They do eventually die from the taint. After the Joining, most Wardens live for about 30 years, give or take, during which the nightmares become worse and they begin to lose their physical and mental health to the taint*. Instead of wasting away and letting the taint overcome them, Wardens experience the Calling. During the Calling, an aging Warden ventures into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, dying in battle with a purpose instead of losing their life to the taint.**

* Alistair tells you this through one of the dialog options eventually. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.
** Alistair explains this to you through one of the dialog options eventually, and it is also hinted at by some of the dwarves in Orz. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.

[eqzitara]

Well the archivist was the only intelligent dark spawn in the second book. He even said he is something different from the rest of his brethren. I think they all networked but more or less stupid creatures. Capable only of primitive tasks. But once an old god comes into the picture they are hooked up to a super computer as you said. They are more or less still the chess pieces they always been but are now in the hands of a professional.

Quaxo: Actually he is right, your answer as far as the game goes is correct. They do go to die if they hear the calling, but what happens when they don't die? This is answered in the second book. The calling is actually the noise an old god lets off its a sign you are beginning the transformation of becomeing a dark spawn or partial dark spawn. In the second book a grey warden is prevented from dieing during the calling and this is what happens.

Modifié par eqzitara, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:58 .

[Red Viking]

Quaxo wrote...

Actually, it's a mix of lyrium and darkspawn blood that's used in the ritual for Warden recruits. I don't recall anyone ever saying the dog is completely cured, only that he will recover. However, it is plausible that the flower may affect the dog in such a way and not a human.

Red Viking wrote...

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

Actually, that's completely wrong. They do eventually die from the taint. After the Joining, most Wardens live for about 30 years, give or take, during which the nightmares become worse and they begin to lose their physical and mental health to the taint*. Instead of wasting away and letting the taint overcome them, Wardens experience the Calling. During the Calling, an aging Warden ventures into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, dying in battle with a purpose instead of losing their life to the taint.**

* Alistair tells you this through one of the dialog options eventually. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.
** Alistair explains this to you through one of the dialog options eventually, and it is also hinted at by some of the dwarves in Orz. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.

Then I guess we have conflicting information, because The Calling says thats about how long the Grey Wardens have until the taint starts to transform them.  The book specifically states that they don't die: they change.

[Chesta12345]

The dog isn't cured of the taint. It just recovers from the initial sickness.



In the second book, Kell, a ranger, actually has a pet dog who is a member of the Grey Wardens and it is said that if the dog lives long enough he will start to change just like the humans.



Since Mabari fight with their mouths, surviving any encounter with a darkspawn is the equivalent of going through the joining since they consume darkspawn blood. If they survive that encounter than they gain the grey warden darkspawn spidey sense and become immune to the sickness.

[Cursek]

Mabari aren't gauranteed survival with the herbs, just better chances.

The joining is not traditionally as simple as just drinking blood, there's usually more to it, involving magic.*

Like the joining, there are multiple possible effects to the taint, when you've hit your limit, such as death. Others can become corrupted wardens, though uncommon.

If I needed to describe the darkspawn, it would be that they are a hive of bees, and they get especially pissed off once they have a leader.

EDIT: This does not mean that more basic versions of the Joining haven't been done, of course.*

Modifié par Cursek, 17 novembre 2009 - 06:43 .

[Chesta12345]

Quaxo wrote...

Actually, it's a mix of lyrium and darkspawn blood that's used in the ritual for Warden recruits. I don't recall anyone ever saying the dog is completely cured, only that he will recover. However, it is plausible that the flower may affect the dog in such a way and not a human.

Red Viking wrote...

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

Actually, that's completely wrong. They do eventually die from the taint. After the Joining, most Wardens live for about 30 years, give or take, during which the nightmares become worse and they begin to lose their physical and mental health to the taint*. Instead of wasting away and letting the taint overcome them, Wardens experience the Calling. During the Calling, an aging Warden ventures into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, dying in battle with a purpose instead of losing their life to the taint.**

* Alistair tells you this through one of the dialog options eventually. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.
** Alistair explains this to you through one of the dialog options eventually, and it is also hinted at by some of the dwarves in Orz. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.

Alistair is not an expert on Grey Warden affairs.  He is a relatively new recruit and everything everyone tells you should be taken witha grain of salt, including the codex.  Even the codex entries are written from subjective points of view and are not authoratively omnipotent or anything.

[Red Viking]

Chesta12345 wrote...

Quaxo wrote...

Actually, it's a mix of lyrium and darkspawn blood that's used in the ritual for Warden recruits. I don't recall anyone ever saying the dog is completely cured, only that he will recover. However, it is plausible that the flower may affect the dog in such a way and not a human.

Red Viking wrote...

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

Actually, that's completely wrong. They do eventually die from the taint. After the Joining, most Wardens live for about 30 years, give or take, during which the nightmares become worse and they begin to lose their physical and mental health to the taint*. Instead of wasting away and letting the taint overcome them, Wardens experience the Calling. During the Calling, an aging Warden ventures into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, dying in battle with a purpose instead of losing their life to the taint.**

* Alistair tells you this through one of the dialog options eventually. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.
** Alistair explains this to you through one of the dialog options eventually, and it is also hinted at by some of the dwarves in Orz. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.

Alistair is not an expert on Grey Warden affairs.  He is a relatively new recruit and everything everyone tells you should be taken witha grain of salt, including the codex.  Even the codex entries are written from subjective points of view and are not authoratively omnipotent or anything.

That and the fact the taint changes Grey Wardens into hybrids seems to be a closely guarded secret.  The characters in the book were very surprised at the end result.

[Quaxo]

Chesta12345 wrote...
Alistair is not an expert on Grey Warden affairs.  He is a relatively new recruit and everything everyone tells you should be taken witha grain of salt

Geez, stop talking about him like he's an actual person or has some kind of actual personality

[Zamav]

Red Viking wrote...

Chesta12345 wrote...

Quaxo wrote...

Actually, it's a mix of lyrium and darkspawn blood that's used in the ritual for Warden recruits. I don't recall anyone ever saying the dog is completely cured, only that he will recover. However, it is plausible that the flower may affect the dog in such a way and not a human.

Red Viking wrote...

Actually, Grey Wardens don't die from the taint. They're immune in the sense that it won't kill them. What happens is that they eventually turn into a human/darkspawn hybrid. They still live and retain their free will.

Actually, that's completely wrong. They do eventually die from the taint. After the Joining, most Wardens live for about 30 years, give or take, during which the nightmares become worse and they begin to lose their physical and mental health to the taint*. Instead of wasting away and letting the taint overcome them, Wardens experience the Calling. During the Calling, an aging Warden ventures into the Deep Roads to fight darkspawn, dying in battle with a purpose instead of losing their life to the taint.**

* Alistair tells you this through one of the dialog options eventually. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.
** Alistair explains this to you through one of the dialog options eventually, and it is also hinted at by some of the dwarves in Orz. Also explained in the Wikia wiki.

Alistair is not an expert on Grey Warden affairs.  He is a relatively new recruit and everything everyone tells you should be taken witha grain of salt, including the codex.  Even the codex entries are written from subjective points of view and are not authoratively omnipotent or anything.

That and the fact the taint changes Grey Wardens into hybrids seems to be a closely guarded secret.  The characters in the book were very surprised at the end result.

This has been confirmed via Warden's Keep DLC as well, I don't think there's anything to dispute. Blood Mage in the high tower (forgot his name) was researching this for centuries, even though his notes might be subjective, it is consistent with other sources.

Alistair might not know what really happens, but he does know Wardens eventually go to Orzimmar and die fighting.

Modifié par Zamav, 17 novembre 2009 - 07:09 .

[dannythefool]

That the old grey wardens go to the deep roads is also confirmed by dwarves that wonder why you would enter the deep roads...

[Malkut]

I wonder if women Wardens will go to Orzimmar, now that you know how they breed.



Few women seem to become Wardens, most of the people who undergo the Joining die, and 9 out of 10 women who are tainted eventually perish. The odds are clearly small, but I see no reason why a female Warden might not wander into the Deep Roads, only to eventually begin the transformation into a broodmother.