32 réponses à ce sujet

[MachDelta]

Seriously? I always take Blindside. 20% bonus damage when your tank is doing his/her job? Yes please.
I also like to grab Back-to-Back because it lets rogues rescue mages and/or run to a warrior if need be. But mostly its a prereq for Twist the Knife... auto crits vs stunned targets = aaaaaaaaaawwww yeah.

[DA Trap Star]

For Warrior, I never use Warmonger.

[TG-Nalfen]

Warrior:
Warmonger (taunt is ok) rest is very meh
Defender tree is ok but clunky in its prereqs.
Berzerker is terrible all around

Rogue:
Specialist is badly designed past the 1st point
Sabotage outside of the aoe stun blows
Duelist is seriously lacking compared to Assassin and Shadow

Mage
No real flaw here, Entropy is a little clunky but every tree has its gems.
All specialisations have their use

[SlamminHams]

MachDelta wrote...

Seriously? I always take Blindside. 20% bonus damage when your tank is doing his/her job? Yes please.
I also like to grab Back-to-Back because it lets rogues rescue mages and/or run to a warrior if need be. But mostly its a prereq for Twist the Knife... auto crits vs stunned targets = aaaaaaaaaawwww yeah.

Blindside is simply amazing.  But, Twist the Knife is meh in DA2 (compared to Coup de Grace in DA:O) simply due to having almost 100% Crit as a Rogue from nearly the midpoint of the game onward.

For me, Warmonger is trash.  Defender would be there too if Stonewall wasn't there.

I'll probably catch a bit of hell for this, but Duelist and Berserker are bad too, simply due to their alternatives being superior (Reaver + Templar and Assassin + Shadow).

[termokanden]

It's just plain silly not taking Blindside. You're missing out on a 20% damage buff that's active most of the time. However, the rest of the Scoundrel talents are not that great.

For me, as a rogue, it would have to be Duelist. It has some nice passives, but I still think the tree is subpar.

Sabotage outside of the aoe stun blows

Nope. Fatiguing Fog is good. Easiest way to disorient.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[SlamminHams]

TG-Nalfen wrote...

Rogue:
Specialist is badly designed past the 1st point
Sabotage outside of the aoe stun blows

Specialist is a cool concept, but comparing the benefits you gain from a single point against what you get for six points in just silly.  I think the tree would definitely be worth it if they'd flip-flop the positioning of Harmony and the 3 modes, so that Harmony was the prereq to all three, effectively making it possible to get same benefit as right now for only a 4 point investment.  But it's not like Rogues need any lovin'

As for Sabotage, I'm going to dissagree.  There is only 4 methods in which to cause Disorient (which I believe is another problem, namely for DPS Mages and SnS Warriors), one of which can only come from a Hawke Rogue (Shadow).  Of the other three sources, two are from Sabotage and both are AoE applications.

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

I didn't give duelist a second glance. I'm looking to reduce threat on my rogue, not increase it. Rogues aren't exactly known for having tons of health.

[MColes]

Berzerker. And Warmonger is an amazing tree. Pommel strike is the best interupt Warriors have.

[SuicidalBaby]

scoundrel is by far the best rogue tree because of goad alone, blindside and others just solidify it. defender has to be top 3 worst, all of those talents take way too many points from you to get mediocre results.

[TeamLexana]

I like Warmonger. Bravery, taunt, pommel strike, tremor, what more could you ask for?

Least used is duelist. It's was crap in DAO and it's still crap in DA2, sorry Bioware.

Specialist tree is annoying, I really felt nickel and dimed when trying to fill out my speed specialization and having to grab other skills in that tree to unlock the rest in speed. I ended up getting fed up and force leveled up, lol. It's weird, I thought the whole point to this new system was to not force peeps into picking talents they didn't want...

[SlamminHams]

TeamLexana wrote...

Specialist tree is annoying, I really felt nickel and dimed when trying to fill out my speed specialization and having to grab other skills in that tree to unlock the rest in speed. I ended up getting fed up and force leveled up, lol. It's weird, I thought the whole point to this new system was to not force peeps into picking talents they didn't want...

The freedom in the new talent system, to me, when compared to DA:O is that you have more good options (Mage trees, sorta).  The unfortunate issue that effects the Specialist tree is that a one point investment trumps the next five points spent into the tree.

Warmonger, I feel, would be worthwhile if Bravery didn't cost so much Stamina and if Tremor did damage when upgraded.  It seems this tree, while good on it's own, just doesn't warrant the investment over 2H/SnS, Vanguard, Reaver, or Templar simply because the abilities don't add damage, only control.  Pommel Strike/Blow is the only ability I personally wouldn't change in the Warmonger tree.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 20 mars 2011 - 07:58 .

[TeamLexana]

Well with DAO, you never had to go more then 4 deep to get a skill you wanted. For DA2, it seems I am wasting alot more talents that I don't have to spare since there aren't nearly as many talent giving tomes and special quests that grant a talent when completed as there were in DAO.

I like Tremor because I tend to have alot of party members that can take advantage of "staggered" and tremor seems to be the best way to get alot of staggered enemies stacked up all over the place.

Bravery, can be situational, for me at least. I haven't done a warrior Hawke but tend to run with Fenris with his special sustain Lyrium Ghost and Might on so that's alot stamina right there. I'll only switch over and manually flip on Bravery if it seems like he's having a hard time getting and keeping aggro.

Aveline on the other hand, if I take her along instead of Fenris, she runs Bravery since I don't turn run her special sustains unless she needs them on so she has a bit of stamina to burn in that regard compared to Fenris. Works for me at least but I haven't gone above hard mode yet, lolz.

[Icinix]

Stealth remained unused....in pretty much every role playing game I have ever played...

[SlamminHams]

TeamLexana wrote...

I like Tremor because I tend to have alot of party members that can take advantage of "staggered" and tremor seems to be the best way to get alot of staggered enemies stacked up all over the place.

Bravery, can be situational, for me at least. I haven't done a warrior Hawke but tend to run with Fenris with his special sustain Lyrium Ghost and Might on so that's alot stamina right there. I'll only switch over and manually flip on Bravery if it seems like he's having a hard time getting and keeping aggro.

Aveline on the other hand, if I take her along instead of Fenris, she runs Bravery since I don't turn run her special sustains unless she needs them on so she has a bit of stamina to burn in that regard compared to Fenris. Works for me at least but I haven't gone above hard mode yet, lolz.

Like I said, the Warmonger is decent in itself, it just isn't as good as the 3-4 other trees Warriors will generally want.

Tremor can stagger multiple enemies, true, but a Warrior with Cleave + Claymore can stagger multiple enemies while dealing 100% more damage for less stamina and an equivalent amount of ability point invested.  Same thing with Sunder for 2H Warriors and Improved Shield Bash for SnS Warriors, with the added benefits of doing damage and consuming less Stamina.

Bravery is a strange beast.  It's great conceptually, it boosts threat and damage done.  But the steep cost of 30% Stamina, the fact it doesn't do anything against single enemies, and it doesn't help when you really wish it would (mobs aren't on you).  For my money, I'd much rather give the tank cheaper sustainables for threat, namely Control or Might, which'll work against every enemy and go to unlock Cleave, which essentially makes Warriors.

Abilities that do damage and set up/finish CCC are better for threat than abilities that help sustain it in my opinion.  My Mage NM playthrough will definitely use Aveline and definitely have her get Cleave along with Bash, Assault, and Scatter.

Icinix wrote...

Stealth remained unused....in pretty much every role playing game I have ever played...

If you're talking about the Stealth ability, it's probably the best thread drop for Rogues in this game.  If you're talking about Subterfuge, it's got it's perks, especially considering Rogues run out of useful talents around level 17.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 20 mars 2011 - 08:37 .

[Trapslick]

you guys dont like war monger? tremor is awesome for group staggers (resulting in an easy ccc with 2 points in chain lightning on ur healer). thats more used for sword and shield, but taunt is necisary for 2h warriors imho due to you can't hit them back when they're meleeing your party.
and bravery? 50% threat is awesome, 1 sythe and whoever you hit is yours to keep.

war monger is a great tree if you use it right.

[Haasth]

Well...

On Hawke (Mage) I never used:
- Primal
- Elemental
- Force Mage

However. I gave both of these (Primal and Elemental) to Merrill so I did use them frequently.
I also used Varric exclusively in terms of my Rogues during that playthrough and never gave him:
- Scoundrel
- Subterfuge
- Sabotage
- Dual Weapons

So those three would be my least used trees at the moment. Though I'll get most of them during my own Hawke Rogue. 

For the Warriors I used (I used Carver rather often, Fenris every now and then and Aveline every now and then) I never gave any of them:
- Vanguard

That's about it. I used them solely as tanks though. 

All in all I'd say my least used tree wuold be Dual Weapons as I won't use that myself on a Rogue and never use(d) Isabela. 

[Count Viceroy]

Force mage is redundant on nightmare. Most enemies are not bothered by most of the spells.

[elric331]

On my mage, Primal, Spirit and Entropy.
I mostly went through DA2 with Elemental, Blood Mage, Force mage, and the heal tree.

[jbblue05]

Warmonger is a bit useless, just have your rogues cast goad.Pummel strike and tremor aren't worth it because they don't cause any damage.

Its best to dish out the hurt than soak it up.

Modifié par jbblue05, 20 mars 2011 - 01:31 .

[einherjar81]

I understand all the hate for the duelist spec, particularly for those playing on nightmare (which I have yet to do) For all its shortcomings, however, Vendetta+Blood Feud remains my favorite skill for downing enemy mages quickly and cleanly. On normal/hard, my rogue Hawke can off-tank for a few hits as well. I usually roll duelist as my first spec, and assassin as my level 14. Shadow to me, beyond the first skill, is meh.

[SuicidalBaby]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Force mage is redundant on nightmare. Most enemies are not bothered by most of the spells.

100 fort is redundant? 20 second lockdown is redundant? humanoid manipulation on a global scale is redundant? go back and try again.

[kupox666]

For a mage I sank points into Elemental, Force Mage and Spirit Healer. Frankly the Force Mage is the biggest waste of *&$%ing points EVAR.