19 réponses à ce sujet

[Mars Nova]

So I've decided to do with vanguard instead of sentinel on my newest insanity run.  After playing around, I discovered that if all you're doing is waiting for charge to cooldown so you can do it again, you're doing it wrong.

This is my planned build for level 30, tried it out on Kasumi's loyalty mission, and liked the results.

Incideary Ammo-6
Squad Cryo Ammo-10
Heavy Charge-10
Shockwave-6
Pull-3
Champion-10
Reave-6

Take assault rifles for advanced weapon training and roll with the vindicator, scimitar, tempest, and phalanx.

Armor: sentry inferface, capacitor chestplate, strength boost pads, kestrel arm sheathing, stimulator conduits.

Modifié par Mars Nova, 18 mars 2011 - 06:39 .

[Kronner]

Why would Charging be wrong? It's what Vanguard is all about.

[Mars Nova]

I didn't say charging was wrong, I said if that was all you're doing, it was wrong. For me, that cuts down on the enjoyability.

[Kronner]

Mars Nova wrote...

I didn't say charging was wrong, I said if that was all you're doing, it was wrong. For me, that cuts down on the enjoyability.

Perhaps, though Charge is a viable power in almost all situations. I do not see any reason (other than, hey, it looks cool) for putting points into Shockwave.

[HawXV2]

No claymore?

[Mars Nova]

Most of the time, I find that shockwave will knock an enemy right to where I can take potshots at them without exposing myself to return fire from their friends. And while charge may be viable in almost all situations for some players, I find I have to be careful in choosing when to use it, otherwise I die. I will never be one of those players that can charge into any situation and emerge unscathed.

And no, no claymore. As awesome as its killing power is, I find its one-round clip too debilitating. You miss, you're screwed. I could fire 3-4 shots with the scimitar, kill a target, and move on to the next one in the time it would take me to fire one claymore shot and reload.

[XCPTNL]

I'd say if you DON'T charge all the time and pick up the Claymore you're doing it wrong, not the other way around. I don't mean it as an insult, because you clan play however you like - but for me the Vanguard is all about Inferno-Ammo-Claymore-Charging and the occasional Reave thrown in to the mix. I don't have much fun with anything other than this.

Modifié par Korjyan, 18 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[AreleX]

Mars Nova wrote...

I didn't say charging was wrong, I said if that was all you're doing, it was wrong. For me, that cuts down on the enjoyability.

[Bozorgmehr]

Mars Nova wrote...

I didn't say charging was wrong, I said if that was all you're doing, it was wrong. For me, that cuts down on the enjoyability.

You're playing a Van-guard, not a Rear-guard.

[Sidesalad]

Korjyan wrote...

I'd say if you DON'T charge all the time and pick up the Claymore you're doing it wrong, not the other way around. I don't mean it as an insult, because you clan play however you like - but for me the Vanguard is all about Inferno-Ammo-Claymore-Charging and the occasional Reave thrown in to the mix. I don't have much fun with anything other than this.

See, I wish I could play Vanguard and charge in and just smash things up, but it often just doesn't work for me. If I really get into the thick of it I will more than likely die an embarassing death.

I do better thinking of the Vanguard as 'Biotic Soldier', hence why I take AR training over the Claymore. In this capacity I focus less on charging for survival; instead it's a useful tool that lets you gain ground and take some interesting positions using the brute force of a shotgun. Then having the option of taking out other enemies at range with the assault rifle and biotics is extremely useful to me (LOVE Pull>Slam on a Vanguard; aggressive physics powers seem to fit the class so nicely. Plus it makes me giggle every time).

[Volus Warlord]

Hmm.. I started a Vanguard Insanity playthorugh and..


Charge is bloody suicide 3/4 the time! I don't have the Claymore yet (last save was towards the end of Horizon) but if I charge on someone that doesn't have their shields/armor down, I get slaughtered.

[znorky1337]

I don't understand the point of this thread.
As stated above by numerous people, "charge is where it's at!".
You're supposed be super agressive, and I'm inclined to say you're doing it wrong.

[9thLich]

Volus Warlord wrote...
but if I charge on someone that doesn't have their shields/armor down

Those are the best targets you can get on insanity, as they don't fly away when you hit them. It allows you to shoot them point blank in the chest/head.

If you want to charge a group of enemies, it's recommended to disable squad power usage. This allows you to use their powers more effectively.

With a group of enemies you usually charge the one closest to the next cover position, kill him and either attack the next target or jump into cover. You don't have to wait for Charge, but you should use a squad power which staggers enemies (warp, flashbang, inferno grenade, concussive shot etc.), as this reduces incoming fire and allows you to kill more enemies.

You can also use enemies as cover, as shown in ScorugBlitzen's Cryoguard videos.

[Sparrow44]

I'll agree you don't always need the Claymore to play a Charge heavy (or is it Heavy Charge? =P) Vanguard, Scimitar and Eviscerator are solid choices for aggresive gameplay with either a AR or SR as a secondary weapon.

Claymore adds to the higher-risk style gameplay that's all. However if you're not gonna Charge often then ask yourself this; why are you playing a Vanguard?

[PrinceLionheart]

Korjyan wrote...

I'd say if you DON'T charge all the time and pick up the Claymore you're doing it wrong, not the other way around.

Claymore is best for the "Berserker" Vanguard, but not choosing it is hardly "doing it wrong." I like the Bersekgaurd, but I also love the Cryogaurd with the Scimitar.

[Influ]

Claymore is not necessary for Charge heavy gameplay on insanity. The Eviscerator does just fine and Scimitar for me does even better. Also remember to use armor parts to maximize your melee damage. As for if you are dieing all the time with Charge, you're just doing it wrong. First max out Heavy Charge and then passive and you're good to go. Just try to Charge enemies that you can either use as a cover and engage another immediately or get to cover as the sucker falls.

Shockwave is not very useful on harder difficulties and I strongly suggest not spending points in it at the cost of Inferno Ammo. Inferno Ammo's CC capability is a life saver in crowds as it even panics enemies with defenses sometimes.

[Saaziel]

"Charge is bloody suicide 3/4 the time!" (Quote from Volus Warlord)

Vanguard is probably the hardest class to wrap your brain around since it puts the entire cover base shooting 3rd person game play on its head. And if , like me , you played a Vanguard in ME1 , you'll have an even harder time given the drastically different play style from ME1 to ME2.

Vanguards are :

1) Counter intuitive. Your "oh ****" button puts you in "oh ****" situations. Cover base shooters rewards playing safely behind chest high wall, Charge rewards the contrary. However you're still left with aggressive charges and defensive uses of the power.

2) Progressively better. Overall the class is average at the beginning and gets better past lev 2 charge. The power needs some tweaking. Of all the powers in the game, its probably the most disorienting. Not only the funky graphics overdose but the combined proximity to enemies and location changes makes it hard to process all the information at first. Personally i haven't gotten over it and i like to spam the combat HUD to familiarize my self with the surrounding after the jump.

That said, I don't see any uses in Shock wave or Pull. I hope ME3 provides "alternative" builds to the vanguards. Specifically to charge, I'd like to see time dilation & increased shield boost from the get go, with an evolved "%Damage to weapons" bonus or "AoE + %Storm" bonus.

Perhaps the signature power of the Vanguard is too , internally , constricting to allow Charger & puller builds. Maybe adding Biotic melee weapons or Shield upgrades powers (Like ammo powers) might be better.

Modifié par Saaziel, 18 mars 2011 - 07:10 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Saaziel wrote...

"Charge is bloody suicide 3/4 the time!"

Charge is one of the most powerful abilities in ME2 but it does take a little effort to get some feel for it.

1) The moment you press the Charge button (animation starts), you're immune to damage. Enemies can't hit you while Charging. It also restores your shield with 250 points (Heavy).
2) The unfortunate target will be knocked-down (unprotected) or staggered (protected), the latter is preferable and combined with Heavy Charge's time dilation, it's easy to shoot target in the head/chest (=target killed).
3) Enemy AI does not have 'instant targeting', it'll take a second or so before enemies have digested Shep's new position on the battlefield and start shooting.
4) Your shield will survive ~second and when it pops, you're briefly immune to damage.

At this point ~4 seconds have past after you've used Charge. A new Charge is only 1-2 seconds away (depending on your passive) and enemies have not yet touched Shep's health. Inferno Ammo, Melee and squadmates are excellent for staggers to reduce damage between Charges further.

A decent player can easily Charge his/her way through ME2 and enemies have to pray the player makes mistakes (or suffers 'can't get a lock' bugs) to do more than shield scratching

[Saaziel]

^

I was quoting some one else. I'm quite contented with charge as it is.