64 réponses à ce sujet

[JnEricsonx]

My first Hawke is a Mage, and even he sometimes isn't happy with how the Mages are responding.  For every one renegage mage who's just pee-scared and whats to go home, theres 2-3 who've gone off the deep end/psycho and using blood magic.  To paraphrase Jim Norton "their problem solving skills aren't that great, can't they just...fire off a angry email?  'I didn't appreciate that! ::send key:::"  Of course, most of the Templars seem to be cruel d-bags as well, so its a dammned if you do, dammned if you don't, huh?

[marshalleck]

I thought it was ridiculous how almost every single mage you encounter is a puppy-kicking, demon-summoning, moustache-twirling tophat-wearing "Evil" blood mage. Absolutely ridiculous. No nuance whatsoever, just David Gaider trying to drive home with a sledgehammer the idea that mages without variation are soooo dangerous! Look, they are ALL evil blood mages, every single last one of them!

Absurd.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[AkiKishi]

Act 3 with the mages is just a giant mess.

[Lord of Mu]

marshalleck wrote...

I thought it was ridiculous how almost every single mage you encounter is a baby-killing, demon-summoning blood mage. Absolutely ridiculous. No nuance whatsoever, just David Gaider trying to drive home with a sledgehammer the idea that mages are soooo dangerous! Look, they are ALL evil blood mages!

Absurd.

Over zealous templars are just as dangerous as blood mages. A wonderful circle of evil and oppression we have going.

If anything DA:2 has really presented a chicken and the egg question. Who started everything? Templars or Mages

[AkiKishi]

Once you start doing things "for the greater good" you are already on a slippery slope.

It would be like locking up the offspring of criminals out of the fear that they would become criminals.

Templars should be like a roving force that hunts and punishes evil mages. Not a like prison guards.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 18 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[Silencer81]

Well you must start that mages are screwed from the start. Their gift is generaly seen as curse, and most of the Chantry sees them dangerous.

What is most ridicolus part is that blood mage beginners think that they have uber power but once you overhelm them they crumble and beg for mercy

[Chaos_1001]

One thing to remember on this topic that " most players forget "

The "evil possesed" blood mages didnt really make a pressence until act 3. Which in game time progression, was many years after Hawke's family arrived in kirkwall. In the first year, the templars and the circle disagreed and nothing more.The second year they still disagreed but the arguments and opression escalated more. This escalation was overshadowed by a certain key event.Once the event concluded, it was business as usual between the templars and circle. With the increasing grip of the templars came the desperation of the circle. When another said event happens, it " was the straw that broke the camel's back" bust the scene into an absolute free-for-all.

[Lord of Mu]

Silencer81 wrote...

Well you must start that mages are screwed from the start. Their gift is generaly seen as curse, and most of the Chantry sees them dangerous.

What is most ridicolus part is that blood mage beginners think that they have uber power but once you overhelm them they crumble and beg for mercy

Back a mage into a corner and he'll turn to blood magic. Beat the crap out of the blood mage and he'll beg for his life. I should think they'd have a better chance for mercy if they didn't slit wrists for awesome.

[MrTijger]

marshalleck wrote...

I thought it was ridiculous how almost every single mage you encounter is a puppy-kicking, demon-summoning, moustache-twirling tophat-wearing "Evil" blood mage. Absolutely ridiculous. No nuance whatsoever, just David Gaider trying to drive home with a sledgehammer the idea that mages without variation are soooo dangerous! Look, they are ALL evil blood mages, every single last one of them!

Absurd.

Except, ofcourse, that if you read the Enigma of Kirkwall notes you find the game establishes that Kirkwall has an unusually high occurence of magic and that far more mages turn to blood magic in Kirkwall than anywhere else.
Believe what you will but, without spoiling too much, the game does justify the situation with the mages.

[Naitaka]

I want a VTBM ending where I give Meredith and Orsino the finger and walk into the sunset...one of the most satisfying ending in RPG history imho.

[Deylar]

Chaos_1001 wrote...
The "evil possesed" blood mages didnt really make a pressence until act 3.

Eh hem

Act 1- The First Sacrifice

[Alfa Kilo]

Naitaka wrote...

I want a VTBM ending where I give Meredith and Orsino the finger and walk into the sunset...one of the most satisfying ending in RPG history imho.

Exactly. The wohle situation at the end, where you choose the side is quite absurd. Even my somewhat anti-mage warrior was like (or wanted to be like, to be exact): "You know what? F*** you both, solve this mess yourselves. You are both crazy bastards and will have none of you!"

[0x30A88]

I bet a rogue -- or a group of those -- having a bit of fun with his backstab could have done as much a massacre as a blood mage could.

And Meredith blamed Hawke for the.....let's not resort to spoilers..... I wanted to kill her already when act 3 had just about started.

Sadly, it's about siding with the lesser of two evils.

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 18 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[Chaos_1001]

Deylar wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...
The "evil possesed" blood mages didnt really make a pressence until act 3.

Eh hem

Act 1- The First Sacrifice

I didnt say they were not in act 1. I said they didnt make a prominent presence until act 3. Perhaps I should have clarified what I said in the initial statement but I believe what I said originally was was more than adequete.

[Chaos_1001]

Gisle Aune wrote...

I bet a rogue -- or a group of those -- having a bit of fun with his backstab could have done as much a massacre as a blood mage could.

And Meredith blamed Hawke for the.....let's not resort to spoilers..... I wanted to kill her already when act 3 had just about started.

Sadly, it's about siding with the lesser of two evils.

Indeed, and that is directly the point of act 3 ( no spoiler). Making a stand / choice and living with the consequence of that choice. One particular choice was in effect very easy for me to make the other was not.

[LexXxich]

Except that this choice is not really a choice. Whoever you side with does not matter, everything ends up being the same. Not just in gameplay sense, but in consequences for the world of Thedas too.

[Chaos_1001]

The choice we speak of didnt effect the game on let us say a game ending make or break decision. The ending of the game / outcome ( fate as it were ) was not affected. What was affected was what stance the champion took which did effect the story quite a bit. Look at Varric's narrative at the very end for proof of that.

Modifié par Chaos_1001, 18 mars 2011 - 01:38 .

[Pyrate_d]

My thoughts are that both sides are watered down to the point that neither have a good side at all. Every mage you meet is a crazed blood mage, every templar is a fascist control freak. I think Bioware would have been better off making them both seem reasonable.

[Drowsy0106]

Grey choice i guess, but i always side with the minority regardless, the mages. Or maybe i side with the mages because the word templar is related to a religion.

Good thing there is Anders to bring reason to it all, the true champion of Kirkwall.

[Galad22]

I would have been perfectly happy to let mages and templars to nuke it out themselves. And just stay neutral. But no that is not allowed.

Exactly because neither side seems to have no good side whatsoever, which is just ridiculous.

In the end though I chose mages because I had to, at least they are properly oppressed.

[Will Moor]

I don't know why people keep saying "Every mage was this and every templar was that". I don't know how to respond to this without spoilers, so I can only say that its in fact untrue that the word "every" can apply to either mages OR templars. Its a major plot point, for pity's sake, especially with the templars.

I think in the long run I must blame the Templars, Chantry and *perhaps* even Andraste herself for the blood mage madness that we see. I think that the Templars should have indeed been instituted, but NOT the circles. The Templars should have been more like a police force than jailers, who kept vigilant watch from a distance rather than breathed down mages' necks. Almost like the Grey Wardens of Blood Mages and other evil magic users. They could have even recruited from among mages themselves and trained some arcane warrior types that fought magic with magic. And it should have then been seen as a great honor to be so recruited, and not a punishment or curse. Nothing to feel tempted to go blood mage crazy over.

If they felt that the circle was an absolute MUST, then it should have only been something used for the first formative years of a mage's life, and once he or she passed his or her harrowing, once it was proven that temptation was not a problem for the mage, they could then be released into the greater public to live their life. Also, parents, friends and families should have been given visitation rights every few months at least. Make it play out like nothing more than going away to school for a few years. Almost like Hogwarts.

[Junri]

Not every mage you encountered was a blood mage and not every templar you encountered was a crazed fanatic. I can think of plenty and I would list them if this forum allowed spoilers. I honestly think BioWare showed the goods and bads of both sides pretty well. Also, I was more inclined to side with the templars then the mages due to the personal trauma the mages have inflicted on Hawke while the templars pretty much did nothing directly to Hawke. Plus you get an additional bonus for siding with the templars after all whoever has the support of the Templars... well I don't want to spoil it ;o

[ReinaHW]

If you treat someone like they're evil, then they might just end up being so because they receive no encourgment beyond the misconception.
That's how I see the issues with the Mages and the Templers, the Templers are paranoid, seeing Blood Mages under every stone. But not every Mage is a Blood Mage, many don't even care for that kind of thing.

'Judge not least you be judged'

[Rocambole4]

My general toughts?

Nothing Hawke do matters. Why bother?

[AkiKishi]

Well you could say that finding object X was the catalyst but that's not something Hawke chooses ,or even keeps.