Legbiter wrote...
Mages should be kept in proper Circles & overseen by templars. To be wheeled out in case of the odd Blight/Qunari invasion.
Modifié par FullmetalHeart20, 16 janvier 2013 - 04:55 .
maybe it is less about mage vs. templar and just about who has the power and what they are doing with it and if anyone is being oppressed. in kirkwalls case the templars have power and use it to oppress mages. (but you could also look at Tevinter and see that mages have power there and use their power to enslave elves and stuff)
in kirkwall, and other places, i think the templars often back mages into a conner because they are afraid and then the mages feel like they have no other choice but to be "evil" just for the sake of survival. which then in turn feeds into their fear of mages. its not like their fears come from no where, there are always some people who are just unsympathetic people who may use whatever they have, in this case being magic, to hurt others. the problem is that not all mages are like that. it has nothing to do with the fact they are a mage, but just that specific person. and i think some templars even know that, i think Meredith even knows that but they are afraid to take chances because mages are incredibly powerful. they think that even if a mage is a good person who doesn't want to hurt people, given the right circumstances and enough pressure from demons they could loose control of themselves and end up hurting innocent people. but at the same time the environment that templars are creating for mages are actually leading to more of these kind of cases other than preventing them. i think thats what the goal of templars should actually be - to give mages a space to master their magic while watching over them with help of first enchanters. which is essentially what they may think they are doing. but the circle needs to be more like a school than a prison. but how are you suppose to keep it like that? all people are different and it is hard to get them to cooperate. there is the bigger picture that we can all see because we are shown all sides, but each character in the game has their own experiences that make them see the conflict in a different way. even still we all have different opinions. so yeah thats how i see it. overall though i'm much more in support of mages than templars, but i understand templars way of thinking and wish things didn't have to blow up (pun not intended) but instead could be diplomatically solved. but thats extremely difficult, almost impossible when you have so many different people with different points of views and characteristics.
Necro....Necrophilia?
The Mages should never stop fighting.
They have submitted for a millenia and for what? To have arbitrary and unnecessarily temporary privileges, most of which don't even allow them to step outside of their prison? Oh no.
It's time to stand up take what is rightfully theirs.
The legacy of mage freedom most be continued. Unfortunately for starting it violence was required (Anders and Fiona and Adrian). A millenia of locking up is enough, more than enough.
My personal thoughts? The world would be better off with out men like him in it.
The templars fulfill a needed and necessary function and that has been the case for nine hundred years now.
My personal thoughts? The world would be better off with out men like him in it.
The templars fulfill a needed and necessary function and that has been the case for nine hundred years now.
Hawke doesn't agree.
Also this is person that the world smiled upon her utterly painful death (in opposed to Anders dying instantly and with a smile if you decide to kill him)
Your Heathen Hawke may, but my Hawke actually had some sense, recreating the Imperium in Thedas is doing no one any favors.
And Actually? For the bit about Ander's smiling, He always looked like he was doing an expression of shock that turned into a pained grimace, about like he was constipated or something.
Your Heathen Hawke may, but my Hawke actually had some sense, recreating the Imperium in Thedas is doing no one any favors.
And Actually? For the bit about Ander's smiling, He always looked like he was doing an expression of shock that turned into a pained grimace, about like he was constipated or something.
Well you cannot express that with your Hawke as the game does not have such conversation but it has them for a pro-mage Hawke. I'd like to know your opinion on a country where mages are royalty but there is no slavery. I mean I don't see how nobility can rule while mages cannot. technically "royal blood" does not even exist and is a label while being mage actually exists.
And about the Anders expression, yes there is shock at first as he is not expecting it, (duh its a friggin backstab) but when he is on the ground its like he no longer feels any pain. I personally think in that few seconds he is back to his old self without Justice. Don't you think its strange Justice doesn't interfere at all? If he is the "abomination" some people think he is then he should have done something. It was like that last breath when you are glad to be rid of it along with all the pain life had. Overall its the most calm death in DA2.
I don't see any indicator of him being happy about dying, like i said pained grimace.
Ah the iconic "I didn't finish Anders' quests so I'm fine" playthrough. Anders will blow up the chantry whatever you try to do, deal with it. You just lost some exp and sovereigns because you didn't finish a quest cause of stupidity. Easy to tell from his robes.
I'm not gonna argue about a video game character's death face lol, the fact that it was instant is the important here.
No him pushing the detonator with out PC assistance is a choice, more symbolic then practical perhaps but a choice.
One that you do not support that madness and two you would rather forgo gain then take part in it, You know like the Sellouts who worked for the Nazi's or the USSR against their own countrymen.
No him pushing the detonator with out PC assistance is a choice, more symbolic then practical perhaps but a choice.
One that you do not support that madness and two you would rather forgo gain then take part in it, You know like the Sellouts who worked for the Nazi's or the USSR against their own countrymen.
That depends on my playthroughs. In the bad girl mage playthrough my hawke was like "YES! what a beautiful sight, pink explosion! I Love you Anders! Chantry finally destroyed!" And amusing enough the game has conversations available to pick that makes Anders pale in comparison, like Hawke can promise Anders/Justice that together they will kill all Templars or even being totally OK with destruction of Chantry (requires Anders's full friendship for dialogue to appear). A hawke with that personality would do what Anders did if not worse but Anders stole the scene that bastard. You shouldn't forget that its a video game and comparing it to a real life is kinda out of place. There is no penalty in video games and as it happens I like to be rebellious and the game lets me to be, a goddman rebellious fabulous mage girl. I couldn't ask for more to be honest.
The point is you can be Ander's countrymen so technically you are not going against anyone by supporting him and his actions throughout the game. The game contains choices to support Anders all the way.
So because potentially Hawke can agree with that lunancy it should be acceptable even to Hawke that's don't? I don't follow that Logic.
And comparing video games to reality is the basis for much of the arguments in DA.
Improved rights, the removal of the serf system and slavery, Those concepts are within both our own Medieval lore and DA it self and yet we apply the judgement of the modern day to them when in those times it would be nothing to scoff at. Point being you cannot walk a two way street on the issue allowing modern day concepts into a video game with it also not being interpreted as negatives of the same historical precedents.
So because potentially Hawke can agree with that lunancy it should be acceptable even to Hawke that's don't? I don't follow that Logic.
And comparing video games to reality is the basis for much of the arguments in DA.
Improved rights, the removal of the serf system and slavery, Those concepts are within both our own Medieval lore and DA it self and yet we apply the judgement of the modern day to them when in those times it would be nothing to scoff at. Point being you cannot walk a two way street on the issue allowing modern day concepts into a video game with it also not being interpreted as negatives of the same historical precedents.
So you try to apply the norms of a post merchantile democratic society in a pre-merchantile feudal society. Truly nowadays such an act of terrorism is abhorrent, inexcusable and not an effective carrier of change. People react to exercises of strength or violence in a different manner and a non agressive approach is much more plausible because most of our societies have democratic regimes or even before those at least in the past 3 centuries there was a diffusion of authority because of merchantile strength and the rise of the burgeois against the feudal system. Dragon Age is clearly a feudal society and not a particularly enlightened one politically. The common people have no electoral power and very minor purchasing power. The feudal lords have very limited electoral power which is under the constant censure of military and religious power centers. Ferelden is perhaps further advanced because its existence is in opposition to Orlais; their nationalism is defined in opposition to Orlesian norms and it is well likely that the Orlesians could reclaim it at any moment. Kirkwall is much different. Its viscounts are presented to have ruled under the approval of the chantry and templars. If the common people rebelled against Meredith, she would simply put them down; in fact Leliana makes it pretty clear that the Divine might well put the entire city to the torch.
In this balance, one should consider the choice made by Anders. Perhaps change could be accomplished with a moderate approach but it would not take decades, but rather centuries. Not until the economic and political structures could support rights movements would the Mages be able to tap to the concordance of the collective to force political reforms. In this time we are weighing a likely short though violent war against the current situation. Templars do not simply incarcerate mages. There are extensive instances of molestation and rape, constant psychological violence, and the right of tranquility which is not only murder of free will and some sort of slavery but also largely economical exploitation; the skills of the Tranquil in enchantment partly or perhaps fully fund the Chantry and the Templars. All I am saying is, do not compare what Anders did with examples of social reforms in the past century cause there is no analogy. Rather consider any instances of actual social reform taking place peacefully in the Dark Ages.
I said this a dozen of times already, you cannot apply modern ethics to DA and your comparisons were quite modern. For example the genocide of other nations was a mark of honor in Roman Empire. You should look at what Anders did with this mindset not your current one.
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