301 réponses à ce sujet

[The Brigand]

bassmunkee wrote...
Still doesn't make it any more valid than anywhere else.
It's an aggregator site - it doesn't mean it's accurate and again, you can read the scores anyway you like.
And he is cherrypicking - if he was not cherrypicking he would have used more than one site. QED.

I'm sorry, I have no idea if you're actually trying to be serious here or not.

Metacritic isn't any more valid than... where, exactly? Gamespot? IGN? The New York Times? The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel? Zero Punctuation?

Reviews, review scores, and so on are by definition subjective. The point of an aggregator site like Metacritic is that it takes this subjective information and compiles it into an objective statement, that statement being "This is, on average, what professional review scores come out to". There is no leeway in that statement outside of the possibility that a professional review might be absent, and if it is then the right thing to do is include that review instead of issuing a blanket dismissal of the entire website.

The literal definition of cherrypicking is "to select with great care". Connotatively, this means only looking for information that fits your agenda instead of looking at the greater picture. By going to metacritic instead of just linking to a review that scored the game poorly, he is doing the exact opposite of that. Metacritic is the greature picture, as far as professional reviews are concerned.

So, again, are you actually serious about what you just said there, or are you arguing for the sake of it?

[ginzaen]

davethorp wrote...

You can of course use statistics to prove pretty much anything. 93% of all people know that

made me lol:wizard:

[Grovermancer]

Wivvix wrote...


Bring back fully scripted dialogue.
Bring back mature, developed, adult personalities.
Bring back diverse dungeons and not copy-pasted level design.
Bring back party itemisation.
Bring back Dragon Age.

Bring back the hard, effortful, believable combat that looked like it came from actual human beings, (instead of the spastic, ADD, anime, console hack n slash, weightless-weapons, exploding-bodies everywhere, 'God of War' nonsense that is DA2's melee combat.)

[The Brigand]

Balthamoss wrote...

I would suggest you take a look at Metacritic, you will find that the CRITIC REVIEW average is around 83, which is far from bad, yet people make it look like the Metacritic USER RATINGS, which are for some reason far lower than on any other site, are actual reviews. That's why Metacritic is usually the only site cited by haters because it's the only one that has such a low user score. ;)Are the opinions of the users on Metacritic more important than those of others ?

The TC specifically stated that he's talking about the critic reviews, a collection of 26 professional review scores from various websites.

You then called the TC out for only citing Metacritic (26 reviews) instead of a different review source (which likely would have its review taken into account by Metacritic anyways).

I then pointed out that, no, the reason TC went with Metacritic was (see above).

And now you've gone back to... complaining about user submitted reviews. Instead of the critic reviews.

You trollin', son?

EDIT: Just an fyi: http://www.metacriti...ws?num_items=30

Modifié par The Brigand, 18 mars 2011 - 11:26 .

[Rafe34]

The problem is not that DA2 is a BAD game, something along the lines of say, Bayonetta. It is a good game- were it not for the fact that it was developed by Bioware. Bioware is well-known for their long history of making great RPGs- and DA2 is quite simply NOT a great RPG. It's a good RPG. Not at all up to Bioware's standards. So yeah, a review of 8/10 is pretty damn low for a Bioware RPG.

DA2 reminds me of KOTOR2 in a lot of ways, except for a different company finishing it. It seems rushed, and 90% of the problems can be attributed to that. At least the ending, though rushed, was at least understandable, lol.

Modifié par Rafe34, 18 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[Drogo45]

As you know TC, Metacritic has been shown to be no more reliable than Marlon Brando's pet monkey; which, actually, reflects back unto your own intelligence using them as a source. Go back and play with your extensive anime collection.

[AkiKishi]

Rafe34 wrote...

The problem is not that DA2 is a BAD game, something along the lines of say, Bayonetta. It is a good game- were it not for the fact that it was developed by Bioware. Bioware is well-known for their long history of making great RPGs- and DA2 is quite simply NOT a great RPG. It's a good RPG. Not at all up to Bioware's standards. So yeah, a review of 8/10 is pretty damn low for a Bioware RPG.

DA2 reminds me of KOTOR2 in a lot of ways, except for a different company finishing it. It seems rushed, and 90% of the problems can be attributed to that. At least the ending, though rushed, was at least understandable, lol.

I think that balances out. Some people are harder on it because it's a BIoware game, other are easier on it for the same reason.

KOTOR II was cut to pieces, it never had the ending it was intended to have.

[CRISIS1717]

 Apparently the user reviews aren't valid OP the people dismissing the scores believe they were written by the Gestapo or some other secret organisation bent on discrediting a triple A game title.
=P

[Rafe34]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

The problem is not that DA2 is a BAD game, something along the lines of say, Bayonetta. It is a good game- were it not for the fact that it was developed by Bioware. Bioware is well-known for their long history of making great RPGs- and DA2 is quite simply NOT a great RPG. It's a good RPG. Not at all up to Bioware's standards. So yeah, a review of 8/10 is pretty damn low for a Bioware RPG.

DA2 reminds me of KOTOR2 in a lot of ways, except for a different company finishing it. It seems rushed, and 90% of the problems can be attributed to that. At least the ending, though rushed, was at least understandable, lol.

I think that balances out. Some people are harder on it because it's a BIoware game, other are easier on it for the same reason.

KOTOR II was cut to pieces, it never had the ending it was intended to have.

Yeah, the ending of KOTOR2- I honestly had no idea what had just happened. Fortunately, since I'm a PC user, we do have a rather nice mod that has added the original content back in, most of the time with appropriate voice acting that was already in the game. It honestly seems like if the game was delayed 3 months, it would have been a gem.

People always look at me weird when I say that KotOR2 is one of my favorite games, and I have to remember my version has most of the original content back in it.

I'm just saying, the whole game feels rushed in DA2, (combat having the same four animations, people getting in sync attacking, maps being shamelessly reused over and over), just like KotOR2 felt rushed at the end. Not as badly, just drawing an analogy.

I still think the story is pretty damn good, not the best Bioware has ever turned out, (KotOR in my opinion, with the rather large asterisk that I have never played the Baldur's Gate series, due to the damn thing not working on my PC), but still pretty good. It's not the storyline I have a problem with, except the Mage side ending, which doesn't really work for me. (WAIT, ORCINO! NOT HERE!)

Modifié par Rafe34, 18 mars 2011 - 12:06 .

[Galad22]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

 you listed the user scores from metacritic as 'evidence' that people think Dragon Age 2 is 'considerably worse' and that 'statistics do not lie'... or made it seem like that in your post. What do you want people to understand? Hmm?

At the very least, why list user scores on metacritic at all if you do not believe them to be reliable? why put them forth and make it seem like they are in agreement with what you are about to say?

Point was I am sure, that Dragon age Origins have better critic review scores along with better user review scores.
This does tells something.

[Shockwave Pulsar]

The Brigand wrote...

Balthamoss wrote...

I would suggest you take a look at Metacritic, you will find that the CRITIC REVIEW average is around 83, which is far from bad, yet people make it look like the Metacritic USER RATINGS, which are for some reason far lower than on any other site, are actual reviews. That's why Metacritic is usually the only site cited by haters because it's the only one that has such a low user score. ;)Are the opinions of the users on Metacritic more important than those of others ?

The TC specifically stated that he's talking about the critic reviews, a collection of 26 professional review scores from various websites.

You then called the TC out for only citing Metacritic (26 reviews) instead of a different review source (which likely would have its review taken into account by Metacritic anyways).

I then pointed out that, no, the reason TC went with Metacritic was (see above).

And now you've gone back to... complaining about user submitted reviews. Instead of the critic reviews.

You trollin', son?

EDIT: Just an fyi: http://www.metacriti...ws?num_items=30

Read the OP :
- "the community has spoken". I didn't know professional reviews are "the community".
- "Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent." No, only the users on Metacritic rate it far worse, why only there I have no idea. Doesn't change that he cites only that site, because claiming that "users broadly agree it's far worse" wouldn't work with any other site. Yes, that this cherry picking. 

Modifié par Balthamoss, 18 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[AkiKishi]

Rafe34 wrote...
Yeah, the ending of KOTOR2- I honestly had no idea what had just happened. Fortunately, since I'm a PC user, we do have a rather nice mod that has added the original content back in, most of the time with appropriate voice acting that was already in the game. It honestly seems like if the game was delayed 3 months, it would have been a gem.

People always look at me weird when I say that KotOR2 is one of my favorite games, and I have to remember my version has most of the original content back in it.

I'm just saying, the whole game feels rushed in DA2, (combat having the same four animations, people getting in sync attacking, maps being shamelessly reused over and over), just like KotOR2 felt rushed at the end. Not as badly, just drawing an analogy.

I still think the story is pretty damn good, not the best Bioware has ever turned out, (KotOR in my opinion, with the rather large asterisk that I have never played the Baldur's Gate series, due to the damn thing not working on my PC), but still pretty good. It's not the storyline I have a problem with, except the Mage side ending, which doesn't really work for me. (WAIT, ORCINO! NOT HERE!)

My understanding was it was cut for certification rather than lack of time. This was back when 18 rated games did not sell.

Well if what Mike Laidlaw said is true, it's more lazy than rushed.

I think the time skips ruined it, while adding nothing. I played the mage ending and it just came across as a mess.

[xSHAD0WENx]

I agree with OP

[The Brigand]

Balthamoss wrote...

Read the OP :
- "the community has spoken". I didn't know professional reviews are "the community".
- "Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent." No, only the users on Metacritic rate it far worse, why only there I have no idea. Doesn't change that he cites only that site, because claiming that "users broadly agree it's far worse" wouldn't work with any other site. Yes, that this cherry picking.

From the OP:

The community has spoken, and the results are plain for all to see.
Critics broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was worse than Dragon Age Origins to a
lesser extent. Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse
than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent.

The
inference drawn can be (is) attributed to the statistical discrepancy
between review scores for DAO and DA2. User reviews should be
interpreted as a vague guide only, bearing in mind this sample might not
accurately represent broader user reviews.

Yes, critics and professional reviewers are part of the community. And no, even he understands that the user reviews are, to be blunt, crap that should be taken with a whole salt shaker at best.

Now, are you going to actually talk about the -critic- reviews, or are we done here?

[Maedryc]

Bull****.
Statistics do lie, especially those found on the internet.
You know what doesn't lie? Sales numbers. Ultimately, you can badmouth the game all you want, but if it sold like hotcakes, statistics don't mean a thing. Similarly, if the game got stellar scores on metacritic but it didn't sell as much as expected, it would mean that Bioware made a mistake.
So, OP, I get that you don't like the game. Neither you nor I, though, know how well the game sold thus far.
If it sold well, and any future DLC/X-pac sells well, you can be damn sure that Bioware won't give a crap about metacritic.
Sorry, but that's the hard, cold truth.

Modifié par Maedryc, 18 mars 2011 - 12:37 .

[Nathander Von Eric]

Since when did critic scores in the mid to low 80's become harbingers of death? Are you kidding me?

There are developers that would celebrate like there is no tomorrow if they got a Metacritic score of 83.

The fact that this is considered a little low for Bioware is a testament to just how great their past games have been but no logical or sensible person could point to a score of 83 and say "See? 83.
Ha ha ha ha ha! It sucks!" (As some have done)

When they do it just leads one to believe that they have an agenda other than giving reasoned and thought out criticism of the game.

The Metacritic user reviews? I wouldn't trust them at all right now. I've no idea what the story is behind the asinine amount of 0 scores people voted in but its obvious that some kind of shenanigans are going down.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 18 mars 2011 - 12:54 .

[Galad22]

Balthamoss wrote...


Read the OP :
- "the community has spoken". I didn't know professional reviews are "the community".
- "Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent." No, only the users on Metacritic rate it far worse, why only there I have no idea. Doesn't change that he cites only that site, because claiming that "users broadly agree it's far worse" wouldn't work with any other site. Yes, that this cherry picking. 

Alright perhaps far worse doesn't work. But worse than origins does.

social.bioware.com/956165/polls/16696/

Even here, on bioware's own backyard.

[Shockwave Pulsar]

The Brigand wrote...

Balthamoss wrote...

Read the OP :
- "the community has spoken". I didn't know professional reviews are "the community".
- "Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent." No, only the users on Metacritic rate it far worse, why only there I have no idea. Doesn't change that he cites only that site, because claiming that "users broadly agree it's far worse" wouldn't work with any other site. Yes, that this cherry picking.

From the OP:

The community has spoken, and the results are plain for all to see.
Critics broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was worse than Dragon Age Origins to a
lesser extent. Users broadly agree Dragon Age 2 was considerably worse
than Dragon Age Origins to a great extent.

The
inference drawn can be (is) attributed to the statistical discrepancy
between review scores for DAO and DA2. User reviews should be
interpreted as a vague guide only, bearing in mind this sample might not
accurately represent broader user reviews.

Yes, critics and professional reviewers are part of the community. And no, even he understands that the user reviews are, to be blunt, crap that should be taken with a whole salt shaker at best.

Now, are you going to actually talk about the -critic- reviews, or are we done here?

I never said anything about the critic reviews. Yes they are a bit lower than those of the first game, did I say anything against that ? No.

"And no, even he understands that the user reviews are, to be blunt, crap that should be taken with a whole salt shaker at best."

Ah right, he understands these user reviews are crap, that's why he portrays them as being representative of the whole user base "users broadly agree". 

[oldmansavage]

Grovermancer wrote...

Wivvix wrote...


Bring back fully scripted dialogue.
Bring back mature, developed, adult personalities.
Bring back diverse dungeons and not copy-pasted level design.
Bring back party itemisation.
Bring back Dragon Age.

Bring back the hard, effortful, believable combat that looked like it came from actual human beings, (instead of the spastic, ADD, anime, console hack n slash, weightless-weapons, exploding-bodies everywhere, 'God of War' nonsense that is DA2's melee combat.)

I'm with you bud the only people that like this new system are little kids and tapout shirt wearing tards who think call of duty was the best game ever.

[leeboi2]

Are you stupid? Seriously, the community is comparing it to Origins, which is NOT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO! It's not a terrible game because it's not the same as Origins, jesus ****ing christ...

[The Brigand]

Balthamoss wrote...

I never said anything about the critic reviews.

"Are we done here?"

"Yes."

Thank you.

[Galad22]

leeboi2 wrote...

Are you stupid? Seriously, the community is comparing it to Origins, which is NOT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO! It's not a terrible game because it's not the same as Origins, jesus ****ing christ...

That is exactly what you are supposed to do?

And indeed it is mediocre game at best because it is worse than origins.

[Cloaking_Thane]

What's the phrase.....lies, D*** lies, and statisics

[oldmansavage]

leeboi2 wrote...

Are you stupid? Seriously, the community is comparing it to Origins, which is NOT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO! It's not a terrible game because it's not the same as Origins, jesus ****ing christ...

Most people would base the sequel off the original.  Why even have a sequal if you are to regard it as a seperate entity altogether?  They should of gave it a different name and touted it as the retarded step sister to dragon age origins.

Modifié par oldmansavage, 18 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Point is, pretty much every game has haters...every game gets bad user reviews.

But User reviews on DA2 are far worse than the usual. SOMETHING was wrong, and simply attributing it to some "4chan raid" or "trolls" and ignoring it is folly.