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[cglasgow]

Addai67 wrote...

Look, you can't have it both ways.  I see that you're trying to scapegoat Marethari

Yes, how dare I hold Marethari responsible for her own decisions.

Marethari is dead because she chose to be. Merrill had zero input into that choice of Marethari's, and if Marethari had asked Merrill for her opinion before deciding on it, we all know what Merrill's answer would have been: 'Dear Creators, no!  If anyone's going to get their soul eaten around here, its going to be me!  Its my karmic debt, not yours!'

I'm not 'having it both ways'; I hold Merrill equally responsible for the direct consequences of her decisions.  It's just, Merrill's decisions don't actually kill anyone.  Every Merrill-related death we see is the result of someone else making a suicidally dumb decision that they didn't have to.  'But she practiced blood magic!' is a justification for a lot of things, starting with uninviting her to the clan; its not a sensible explanation for running yourself straight towards certain death while she's busy yelling at you 'Stop! Not that way!  You'll get eaten!'.

To put it more simply; Merrill goes out and sacrifices someone to power her blood magic.  She's responsible.  Merrill does a stupid experiment with blood magic and it accidentally blows up and kills her next-door neighbor.  She's responsible.   Merrill stupidly lets a demon into her body, turns into an abomination, and rampages through the alienage before you put her down.  She's responsible. 

Except that none of this happens in the game.   She tries to sacrifice nobody but herself, none of her experiments actually blow up and hurt anyone else, and she never goes abomination or frees a demon from its bindings. 

But you can't exonerate Merrill and then blame Marethari for not doing something about her.

You know, if Marethari wanted to genuinely stay responsible for Merrill's well-being, then she shouldn't have exiled her in the first place.  

Instead, she wanted it both ways; 'I'm going to dump you off on the shemlen as supposedly all their problem, but I'm still going to keep the clan around on top of a demon hot site for years, on the off chance you might possibly change your mind.'  You know what happens when you try to straddle a fence, Keeper?   You impale yourself on a fencepost!  It hurts and stings!

Woman, your first priority is to your clan's welfare as a whole, not any individual member of it.  If you choose to ignore that then that's YOUR misplaced sense of priorities that's the problem; not your First's.   Merrill is not the boss of you.  Your command decisions, and their end results, are your own problem.

And I'm sorry, but I fail to be touched by the so-called noble plight of Keeper Marethari and the apprentice she couldn't save from herself no matter how hard she tried... when the reality of the story is, Merrill would have been mugged and raped and left for dead in a Lowtown ditch ten times over if it wasn't for Hawke and Varric.  Because Marethari's first plan, when entering stage left in this game, was 'throw Merrill to the wolves'.

We were the ones teaching her how to survive in a shemlen city full of violent ****s, not Marethari.  We were the ones teaching Merrill about how not to get sucked in by crooked gamblers and con men. Hell, we were the ones (well, Varric was), actually paying off city gangs out of his own pocket, without even asking for reimbursement, as bribes to leave Merrill alone. 

The reason people keep saying Marethari was dumber than Merrill in this mess is because that's what she actually was.  However you might disagree with her goal, Merrill's actions at least all actually led towards her goal.  Marethari, on the other hand... by the Dread Wolf, woman!  If saving Merrill's life was actually your highest priority, even more than your own, then why on Thedas did you let her go within a dozen miles of Kirkwall in the first place?   Much less leave with me and my band of rough-looking strangers?

I mean, who was Hawke's character recommendation the first day you walked into the Dalish camp?  Flemeth.  That's not exactly a guarantee you're going to get a decent person.  For all Marethari knew, half a mile out of camp we were going to toss a sack over Merrill's head and drag her off to the Tevinter slavers for a quick fifty sovereigns.  She let us walk away with her anyway.  This is not the choice of someone who values Merrill's continued well-being as her absolute first priority above anything else... so what changed in Marethari's head between act 1 and act 3?   Prolonged exposure to that lovely Sundermount ambience?

The more I think about it, the more I'm with the people who have the theory that Marethari's final act against the demon was her own succumbing to pride; 'I can save Merrill from the demon because I'm just that awesome!  Here, watch me do it!'   The demon's coin to tempt Merrill with was the ancient legacy of her people.   The demon's coin to tempt Marethari with was Merrill.

But out of the two people who were tempted, only one of them was dumb enough to willingly go for the abomination route.  And it wasn't the one you don't like.

She let Merrill drag the clan off the cliff, it's true.  But it's still Merrill doing the dragging.

Nobody made Marethari do a damn thing that she didn't want to do.  Such a pity those things were dumb things.

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[Choark]

cglasgow wrote...

A whole lotta stuff that you can read above...

You know, without actually wanting to disagree with your point about Marethari's role in all this, as I don't, I kinda wanted to nik-pic something you said.

I never got the impression it was Marethari who exciled Merrill.  From everything that was said it was Merrill that exciled herself from the clan, with perhaps other members of the clan wanting her to leave and pushing Merrill to do so. By the fade, Marethari even asked Merrill if she was sure this is what she truely wanted before sending her off with Hawke.

I suppose sending her off with Hawke, someone she at least knows keeps there word to a passing Dragon Witch of the Wild when they could of tossed the amulet into the sea with no comupence, is better then sending her off alone to Kirkwall. If by only a little.

And I'm not sure if it was pride that was Marethari's failing. It was a pride demon, yes, but "Demon's/Spirit's" get classed by the emotion they want/feed-off-of before they ever interact with anyone. It was a Pride Demon before getting  Marethari, it was not shapped into a Pride Demon because of her,  Marethari's greatest failing here, as I can see, was just she loved Merrill and she didn't want Merrill to die by the demons hand/trick.  Marethari was selfish, a little (or a lot) dumb and all of a lot of other things people said, but it wasn't because of too much pride. 

[MorningBird]

MasterSamson88 wrote...

Yeah, I definetly feel the same to be honest. While a lot of this Merrill is evil talk annoys the living daylights out of me I think it shows just how much better the writing is now. Certain characters in this game really are absolutely controversial, their big personal quests twisting more than a few arms sometimes and challenging what some players percieve as canon. Merrill's isn't the only one who does this. And Merrill definetly isn't the only one shaped by her surroundings and environment.  

I feel like this is the kind of split reaction to certain characters that the writers wanted to achieve honestly. xD

Ug, I know, it all makes my head a bit dizzy.  The characterization is very well done and believable in DA2, and everytime I want to say, "I think so-and-so's story was the strongest" I end up changing my mind ten billion times before giving up and admitting that they're all equally well-done.

I didn't even particularly like Sebastian (as a character) but a large part of that is because he WAS well-written.  At some moments I felt downright depressed on the guy's behalf.  At others, I wanted to strangle him through my monitor.

DA2 had an amazing cast.

[inside98]

Imho the writers ran out of time with her. Every other companion is believable. You can relate to them and they fit into the rather dark atmosphere of Dragon Age.
But Merrill is more like some cute and naive cartoon character.
I like her story, but i think the writers had not enough time to polish the plot and boundaries of her character and I think that's the reason why it is hard to get her. Because you wouldn't meet someone with her attitude in real life.

I think the only way Bioware can fix the whole Merrill mess is to give her a really important role in Dragon Age 3. Some rare Dalish ability no one else had in ages. That would at least make Marethari's actions plausible.

Just my 2 cents

[cglasgow]

inside98 wrote...

Imho the writers ran out of time with her. Every other companion is believable. You can relate to them and they fit into the rather dark atmosphere of Dragon Age.
But Merrill is more like some cute and naive cartoon character.

I don't know, I just got the act 2 full-rival non-romance conversations with her, and I'd never imagined that cute and sweet Merrill could get that quietly angry in my face, while still maintaining her presence of mind.  There's more depth there than at first glance.

In fact, she acted more maturely about being denied the arulin'holm than I was expecting.  Especially since I picked all the 'treat her like a child' dialogue options.  I was expecting a tantrum or a rant; she just angrily but quietly told me that she'd trusted me, that I'd I let her down, that she was very tired of people assuming that she didn't already know the risks she was running, and that since we had nothing further to say to each other, would I please leave her house? 

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 08:29 .

[cglasgow]

Choark wrote...

I never got the impression it was Marethari who exciled Merrill.  From everything that was said it was Merrill that exciled herself from the clan, with perhaps other members of the clan wanting her to leave and pushing Merrill to do so. By the fade, Marethari even asked Merrill if she was sure this is what she truely wanted before sending her off with Hawke.

The impression I got was that it was 'my way or the highway' time there; 'If you want to stay here, you can, but you must abandon your quest.  If you want to keep following your quest, then do it in Kirkwall because you goddamn sure ain't doing it here.'

Which is close enough to exile that the difference is measured only in split hairs.   It's just not permanent exile, only conditional.

And when you return in act 2 for the arulin'holm quest, pretty much the first thing out of Marethari's mouth is 'You're back?  Have you changed your mind? ... no?  Well, then, you're not allowed back in.'  She still treats Merrill as having a provisional clan membership... but she doesn't actually let her back in camp.

And Marethari also admits to being the one who spread all the news around camp of what Merrill was doing and how horrible it was... you know, the rumors that freaked Pol out so much that he actually ran straight back towards horrible nasty pointy certain death just because Merrill was standing between him and safety.  That's... not exactly the Keeper rolling out the welcome mat.

I suppose sending her off with Hawke, someone she at least knows keeps there word to a passing Dragon Witch of the Wild when they could of tossed the amulet into the sea with no comupence, is better then sending her off alone to Kirkwall. If by only a little.

... no comeuppance?  Flemeth is the single scariest living thing in the entire flarging world, and that's INCLUDING the Archdemon.  People who even mildly annoy Asha'bellannar are 'found in tiny pieces hanging from the trees'.   You could be the worst chaotic evil scumbag in the world, and you'd still keep your deal with Flemeth... if you had the brains the Maker gave a walnut.

Man, even my Warden would have reconsidered fighting Flemeth, if she hadn't made it plain in the pre-battle conversation that win or lose, she wasn't going to take it personally.  Death in battle is one thing.   But actually getting a personal grudge off of someone so scary that even the Blight leaves her and her house alone?   Yeah, I'd rather do something comparatively harmless, like try to solo the Deep Roads naked with a spork.

And I'm not sure if it was pride that was Marethari's failing.

Well, the demon's name was 'Audacity' (its in the Merrill intro fiction posted by the Bioware devs online) for what that's worth.

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[Choark]

cglasgow wrote...

... no comeuppance?  Flemeth is the single scariest living thing in the entire flarging world, and that's INCLUDING the Archdemon.  People who even mildly annoy Asha'bellannar are 'found in tiny pieces hanging from the trees'.   You could be the worst chaotic evil scumbag in the world, and you'd still keep your deal with Flemeth... if you had the brains the Maker gave a walnut.

That's assumming Hawke knew that Flemeth is the single most scariest person on the planet of course. I mean all Hawke knows at the least is that she can change into a Dragon. Scary, yes, but you could still believe that you could dump the ammulet (or sell it off to a merchant) and she would never be able to find you. She names herself as Asha and Flemeth, but if you don't know who these people are then its just another name from a crazy old dragon lady.

Of course it's what Marethari thought Hawke knew about Flemeth that matters I suppose, and what motivated them to come with the ammulet. Which all depends on how you're playing Hawke. But yes, it was a risk, I'm not arguing there, but it was a small calculated risk that this person who kept there promise, for whatever reason, won't slit Merrills throat the first chance they got (as they at least went up and down the mountain with her) and get her safely to, in and around Kirkwall, rather then having her set off completely and utterly alone.

As the Keeper though maybe she could of made it so Merrill stayed with the clan and kept doing what she was doing. She certainly had the power to do so. However the tension in the clan, over the years would probably of come to a breaking point. She could of allowed Merrill to take the risk she wanted with the mirror, but with how the clan was who wasn't to say Merrill would of been in danger from them and there attempting to stop her?  But then Marethari was very much against the deal/mirror as well - its not like she had a passive view of that - I don't know, the only way I can think of putting it is - would you expect a heavy Christian family to allow there devil worshipping 19 year old son to live in there house when he refuses to stop? And she could of allowed her to take the risk with the deal with the demon, but in doing so, allowing Merrill to certainly die.

cglasgow wrote...

And Marethari also admits to being the one who spread all the news around camp of what Merrill was doing and how horrible it was... you know, the rumors that freaked Pol out so much that he actually ran straight back towards horrible nasty pointy certain death just because Merrill was standing between him and safety.  That's... not exactly the Keeper rolling out the welcome mat.

I had actually forgotten about that.  I wasn't sure she had told them that Merrill was continuing the work that they all already had decided was wrong, and then the clan escilated the problem among themselves. You know, stuff like "She's still working on that!?" - "And she's uses blood magic now!" -  "Blood magic but thats..!" - "She's betrayed us!" and it just continues on between them until it grows into outright fear/hostility. Or if Marethari told them that they should be very afraid because of the Demon.

I suppose it was likely she at least told them to be very wary as a demon was there, as she didnt want any other of her clan to fall prey to the demons trap. So its likely that from that the clan believes Merrill is completely under the demons power and so... yeah.

I personally wonder when Marethari made the deal with the demon.  I completely believe it was before act 3 started, which is why the clan is still there after another 3 years, meaning she knew Merrill would never give up on her quest, which is likely as they knew each other well, and knew she would have to die for her and waited for Merrills final return.  But I always wondered if Marethari did it at as early as Act 1, or possibilly even before hand, when she first realised the Demons plot. *Shrugs* Not that the when changes anything I suppose.

In the end, for me, Merrill done what she did because she believed in it, and I can understand why, and I personally agree with a lot she said all through out the story. Marethari done what she did and I can see why and even sympathsise with her. Maker knows I would want to take a bullet/demon for any child I loved. And I can even sympathsise with the clan - here there Keeper is breaking tradition for a girl who they all pretty much feel has betrayed them, breaking the most simpliest of tabboo and doing a deal with a demon, which in the end cost them the keeper who was meant to be leading them - and for what? A Mirror that they all mistrust? A piece of history that was sealed away even before they lost everything?

So yeah, I'm with the "everyone plays a part in all this" camp. 

Modifié par Choark, 20 mars 2011 - 09:55 .

[cglasgow]

Choark wrote...

That's asumming Hawke knew that Flemeth is the single most scariest person on the planet of course.

No, that's assuming that Marethari would go off the logic 'nobody remotely on the same continent as sane willingly screws with Asha'bellanar'... which, y'know, she would, without even thinking about it, because the Dalish know what a horror she is.

Besides, it kinda beggars probability that Hawke grew up in Lothering, which is right next door to the Chasind, and never once heard the stories about the infamous Witch of the Wilds.  The only reason she needed Aveline to point it out to her is because knowing someone's name and knowing what they look like are two different things.

And we're off on a tangent.

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[Addai]

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

Then don't do it? It's not required to move forward in the game.

I did it because my character was in love with her.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Yeah. Merrill and my blood mage were two peas in a pod--Hawke wanted the mirror to work as much as Merrill did, so it was top priority. If you're some mercenary, you'd probably look for profit and, finding none, say "forget this."

[Addai]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

Then don't do it? It's not required to move forward in the game.

I did it because my character was in love with her.

Yes, thank you, I could have figured that out on my own.  As I said, I was looking for input from others who are skeptical of her pursuit of the "pretty mirror."

[mesmerizedish]

Addai67 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Then don't do it? It's not required to move forward in the game.

I did it because my character was in love with her.

Yes, thank you, I could have figured that out on my own.  As I said, I was looking for input from others who are skeptical of her pursuit of the "pretty mirror."

Addai67 wrote...

I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror.

It seems like you were having a bit of trouble figuring it out on your own, actually. I was just answering you. There's no need to be rude.

[Addai]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

It seems like you were having a bit of trouble figuring it out on your own, actually. I was just answering you. There's no need to be rude.

And there's no need to be patronizing.

I'd like to know if there's a middle way between "risk my life so Merrill can fix the killer mirror" and "Merrill must be stopped."  I don't think they give you enough about the mirror for a disinterested Hawke to involve herself that deeply.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 mars 2011 - 07:37 .

[nodice]

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

I'm digging my own grave here, but...

I think this is a reasonable question. It's odd Hawke just has to stay on her side and watch her obsessing about the eluvian. Is Merrill even a good friend? What does she ever do for Hawke? Why does Hawke continue aiding her when it seems to be leading into a disaster? Even the romance is a bit weird, Merrill doesn't really seem to care. At the end, if you side with the mages, sure, she supports Hawke - because she's a mage.

I don't understand the motivation to help her at all.

[Addai]

If the loot were better, you could justify it Isabela style: "If we kill them, we can take their stuff." But man, you get like 30 silvers or a weapon no one can equip from these big boss battles.

[GuiltySource]

You get Marethari's staff...

[Addai]

GuiltySource wrote...

You get Marethari's staff...

I mean earlier, fighting the varterral.  We got a bow no one can use.

Anyway, replaying that part does make me realize that it's also frustration with story gaps and not just being appalled at Merrill that plagues me.  It is the eluvian that everyone is worried about- Marethari says they fear the corruption will come back.  But it's never explained how Merrill got the eluvian in the first place.  As people in this thread have pointed out, it's unrealistic to think that Merrill tossed it in the back of an aravel without anyone noticing.  When you first talk to her about it, she mentions only that she picked up a shard.  If indeed the clan kept the eluvian but didn't want anyone to mess with it, that makes no sense.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 mars 2011 - 09:09 .

[draken-heart]

Addai67 wrote...

GuiltySource wrote...

You get Marethari's staff...

I mean earlier, fighting the varterral.  We got a bow no one can use.

Anyway, replaying that part does make me realize that it's also frustration with story gaps and not just being appalled at Merrill that plagues me.  It is the eluvian that everyone is worried about- Marethari says they fear the corruption will come back.  But it's never explained how Merrill got the eluvian in the first place.  As people in this thread have pointed out, it's unrealistic to think that Merrill tossed it in the back of an aravel without anyone noticing.  When you first talk to her about it, she mentions only that she picked up a shard.  If indeed the clan kept the eluvian but didn't want anyone to mess with it, that makes no sense.

i think merrill kept a shard and reconstructed the mirror from it.
i agree that merrill story plot is a bit unrealistic though

[cglasgow]

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest?

Oh, lots of reasons.

Merrill's my friend, and she's come and helped me fight my battles (i.e., has been a selectable party member) even when she had absolutely no stake in it.   I owe her the same courtesy.  I mean, is there any companion in this game who hasn't asked you to come along and help them kill people in a fight you have no personal stake in?  Even Aveline drops me a line whenever she needs a magical SWAT team.

Edit: Just remembered the answer to my question.  The only companion who doesn't invite you to a murderthon that's not really any of your affair is Bethany or Carver.  At least their invitational murder spree is actually Amell family business.

And even in the playthroughs where Merill's not my friend, she's a close friend of my best friend(s); regardless of PC choice, Varric and Aveline and Isabela all still like Merrill a lot and try to look out for her.  You can always pretend that they nagged you into it, and Christ knows you owe Varric and Aveline some favors.

On the more skeptical side, you could be involved in her whole eluvian thing because you want to be there on the spot to stop her in case things start getting out of control and there's a magical catastrophe about to erupt... that's actually a lot of what the non-romance-rivalry-path with Merrill is about!

And if you're a total mercenary evil bastard, you can always role-play 'Sure, elf girl, I'll gladly help you restore one of the rarest and most precious magical artifacts in the world... and then as soon as you're done taking all the risks for me, I'll bash you over the head and take your mirror and sell it to the Tevinter magelords for a million sovereigns!  I wonder if they'll throw in an extra hundred if I also sell them you!'   This is a stretch, yes.  

And lastly, there's Snarky!Hawke's comment: 'I'll do it, but only because you asked me in that 'You kicked my puppy!' voice.'  

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[LordAsael]

You can also take the simple morbid curiosity approach to justifying assisting Merril. What if she is correct? What exactly is this artifact capable of doing? What happened to her clan members that were taken? Has Merril managed to outwit a demon?

[MorningBird]

It depends on the kind of Hawke you've choosen to play, I suppose. If you're playing a more controlling Hawke who wants to act in what they think is the best interest of everyone, then refusing Merrill's request to restore the eluvian when she asks you for help is completely justified.

If you're playing a Hawke who may not agree with Merrill, but believes restoring the mirror is her sacrifice to make, then helping her is also completely justified.

If you're playing a character whose blindly in love with Merrill, once again, doing whatever she asks can also be completely justified (though you could just as easily play out a 'rival' romance where Hawke thinks he/she is 'doing what is best' for the one they love.)

Personally, my first Hawke (a rogue) didn't know anything about Dalish culture or the mirror, except that it needed to be purified (which didn't sound like such a terrible thing) that Merrill was communicating with a demon to fix it (which did sound like a bad thing) and that the Dalish moved around. A lot. So when Merrill said she needed to go have a 'heart to heart' with the demon, my rogue hesitated, but eventually decided that if Merrill wanted to put her life on the line for a broken mirror, then the least he could do was be present in the event that she DID lose control. Can't have abominable-Merrill desecrating the countryside, after all.

That being said, he'd known Merrill for 7 years by that point, and she'd proven herself a capable mage (to him.) My rogue was also hoping that if push came to shove, Merrill would be able to fight off the demon.

Regardless, he brought Anders and Fenris along for the ride in the event that a worse-case scenario did occur. Anders to help determine whether or not Merrill was possessed, and Fenris because he would not hesitate to cut Merrill down where Hawke might.

My rogue did not expect the Dalish to still be at Sundermount, or for Marethari to get herself involved, so he ended up being quite tactless when the rest of the Dalish clan showed up for questioning. End result being the massacre of the entire clan.

My warrior Hawke was similar in that he was also pretty ignorant on the Dalish, and since Merrill was his only real link to the culture, he took her word on most things. After all, my warrior didn't exactly sit around the campfire having meaningful conversations with Marethari about the 'evil mirror'. I imagine he only saw the Dalish a handful of times during the 7-8 years he was in Kirkwall.

That being said, while he knew about Tamlen's death (and that the mirror was somehow involved) his knowledge of what happened to Tamlen was really never expanded upon, so he was left to draw his own conclusions.

What he thought was that the Dalish were simply unable to 'move on' from Tamlen's loss, and that they were, quite frankly, acting irrational when it came to the mirror. He figured that there must always be some form of danger involved in reclaiming lost Dalish artifacts (be they giant spiders, or the artifacts themselves.) My warrior just assumed that Merrill's clan had been spared any unfortunate accidents on their relic hunting until Tamlen, and that they needed 'more time' to come around to Merrill's way of thinking.

He accepted Merrill's word when it came to the importance of restoring the mirror for the Dalish people.

What happened afterwords was pretty much the same as what happened for my rogue: he took Fenris and Anders with him (for already explained reasons) dropped his jaw when Marethari got involved, but fortunately had more foresight than my rogue when it came to handling the Dalish in the aftermath, so everyone got to walk away.

In conclusion: It REALLY just depends on the character you're playing.

- Is your Hawke scholarly, and do they know ALL there is to know about the Dalish before even meeting them?
- How 'chummy ' do you perceive your Hawke being with Marethari as opposed to Merrill?
- Do they think the risks of restoring the mirror are worth the reward?
- Do they actually think that the mirror is an 'evil all-life destroying mirror' or that the Dalish are overreacting because Tamlen's was the first young life lost to their clan in a long time, and that they're missing out on seeing a piece of their lost history restored?
- Does your Hawke believe that Merrill should be in control of her own life, even if her decisions lead to her sacrificing it for her people?
- Does your Hawke believe that Merrill is completely in the wrong and refuse to help her for her own good?


Really, no matter how your Hawke decides to approach the situation, I don't think anyone has to justify why their particular Hawke decided to help Merrill.

As far as the eluvian goes, I think the Dalish people believed that broken it posed no threat, so they took it with them. Sure, it didn't work any more, but this way they could keep that 'old relic from their past' without worrying about it spreading the corruption to their entire clan.

As I've mentioned before, I don't think anyone saw it as 'an evil mirror' until the demon showed an interest in restoring it.

As for Merrill only having a shard of the mirror, I don't think it's a matter of the clan only taking the shard with them from Ferelden so much as Merrill only trying to purify one piece of the mirror before (eventually) deciding to restore the entire thing.

Though, my memory of that conversation in general is a little foggy, so I could be wrong.

Modifié par MorningBird, 20 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[Helen0rz]

Heidenreich wrote...

Merrill is young. She's like a 16 year old who's convinced herself that sleeping with her boyfriend is EXACTLY the best thing to do, despite mom and dad's insistence that she's not actually in love with the boy who got arrested 6 times for theft and drug sales. In fact, the more mom and dad tell her no, the MORE RIGHT she believes she is.

If you help her, she convinces herself she's right. I mean, Hawke isn't telling her no! Silly Keeper thinking she knows more! If you don't help her, she puts you in the "Keeper knows nothing, I know everything" box. One more 'adult' telling her she's wrong when she KNOWS its right, damnit!

This, is Merrills thought process.

As for the gifts, she's sad. Giving her stuff that reminds her of home, especially if you're more insistent that she could just give this silly quest up and GO HOME, makes her more irritated and annoyed, then grateful. You CAN get friendship points from gifts, but it depends on how you talk to her about it.

nicely put.

if you have her at complete rivalry there's cutscene (i got this in Act 2) where she's crying and she admit she've been wrong all along, that Hawke and the Keeper were right from the beginning

[Addai]

Will Merrill ever leave the party if you just refuse to help her one way or another?

[Helen0rz]

Addai67 wrote...

Will Merrill ever leave the party if you just refuse to help her one way or another?

according to the guide, the only time she might leave is during The Last Straw