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[GuiltySource]

cglasgow wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest?

Oh, lots of reasons.

Merrill's my friend, and she's come and helped me fight my battles (i.e., has been a selectable party member) even when she had absolutely no stake in it.   I owe her the same courtesy.  I mean, is there any companion in this game who hasn't asked you to come along and help them kill people in a fight you have no personal stake in?  Even Aveline drops me a line whenever she needs a magical SWAT team.

Thats what I like about DA2 over Origions. Your compaions in DAO only follow you because of the blight. No sooner as it ended they jump ship. In DA2 I felt like they were friends. With me because they wanted to be, not because they had to be.

So when my friend asked for my help, I wanted to give it.

Modifié par GuiltySource, 21 mars 2011 - 09:32 .

[DeaHamlet]

@GuiltySource

I'm fairly certain Zevran followed you because of your good looks .

[Psycho_Kenshin]

I will say, Merill is a likeable cute character, and I enjoyed her dialogue interactions with Isabela and everybody, though Merill wasn't usually on my team. She actually had the only line of party dialogue acknowleding the Hawke/Isabela romance, so I appreciated that.

But, I will say since I romanced Isabela and the way the story played in my game, Merill's story is a bit odd and definitely not particularly satisfying. Here's what happens:

She joins us, moves to the alienage doesn't fit in and obsesses over the mirror. On the mirror quest I told the Keeper, The Keeper gets possessed we kill her. Then when we explain the Keeper was possessed, her entire clan fights us and we slaughter them all in self defense. I found that to be one of the most hilariously brutal parts of the story. Anyways, when we get back she never even talks about it, and I give her a keeper ring which she says is a nice gift. And that's the Merrill story.

Modifié par Psycho_Kenshin, 21 mars 2011 - 09:55 .

[GuiltySource]

DeaHamlet wrote...

@GuiltySource

I'm fairly certain Zevran followed you because of your good looks .

He didn't live long enough to follow me...

You can imagine my surprise when I met zombie Zevran in DA2.

[Wulfram]

There's a bug which means the reaction to the final quest happens before the quest, unfortunately.

[Killjoy Cutter]

GuiltySource wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest?

Oh, lots of reasons.

Merrill's my friend, and she's come and helped me fight my battles (i.e., has been a selectable party member) even when she had absolutely no stake in it.   I owe her the same courtesy.  I mean, is there any companion in this game who hasn't asked you to come along and help them kill people in a fight you have no personal stake in?  Even Aveline drops me a line whenever she needs a magical SWAT team.

Thats what I like about DA2 over Origions. Your compaions in DAO only follow you because of the blight. No sooner as it ended they jump ship. In DA2 I felt like they were friends. With me because they wanted to be, not because they had to be.

So when my friend asked for my help, I wanted to give it.

And then at the end, they all go their seperate ways, except one if you romanced them.

[Addai]

GuiltySource wrote...
Thats what I like about DA2 over Origions. Your compaions in DAO only follow you because of the blight. No sooner as it ended they jump ship. In DA2 I felt like they were friends. With me because they wanted to be, not because they had to be.

So when my friend asked for my help, I wanted to give it.

I don't have a problem with the part where you go with her to the keeper, though it's odd that you have to hold her hand just to see her own mentor.  It's the part where you then have to go face a creature that's killed several hunters to get this tool that may/may not work to restore a mirror you just found out about and whose significance means nothing to you.  It doesn't help that Merrill is so timid and childlike but then insists she can handle all these dangerous things she wants to undertake and drag others into.

[cglasgow]

Addai67 wrote...

I don't have a problem with the part where you go with her to the keeper, though it's odd that you have to hold her hand just to see her own mentor.

What, it wasn't made obvious enough that while Merrill can fearlessly go up against demons, she's horrible with people?   She only said it out loud.

In some ways, demons are easier; you always know that you can't trust them, and you always know that they hate you and want to rip out your soul and wear your skull for a hat.   "There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was." is a Merrill dialogue line for a reason.

But people... people are complicated. 

Modifié par cglasgow, 21 mars 2011 - 05:01 .

[DirewolfX]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

wonky? giving her a 5 gold gift is -15 rivalry no matter your responces. Thats not wonky, thats god damn retarded. I am begining to loath every conversation in this hack job of a sequel. I cant even sell the gift. what a fking waste.

The way friendship/rivalry works is that it's designed so that you try to max it in either direction.  If you are already on the rivalry side of the scale, it will tend to push you towards rivalry if you give them a gift, because that's a 'good' thing.  I was high friendship with Merill on my first playthrough, so it pushed her towards friendship.

[Addai]

cglasgow wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I don't have a problem with the part where you go with her to the keeper, though it's odd that you have to hold her hand just to see her own mentor.

What, it wasn't made obvious enough that while Merrill can fearlessly go up against demons, she's horrible with people?   She only said it out loud.

In some ways, demons are easier; you always know that you can't trust them, and you always know that they hate you and want to rip out your soul and wear your skull for a hat.   "There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was." is a Merrill dialogue line for a reason.

But people... people are complicated. 

And a shem is supposed to get through to the keeper in a way Merrill can't?

[cglasgow]

Replay the conversation; your role isn't to make diplomacy with the Keeper, its to keep Merrill from losing her nerve.

Modifié par cglasgow, 21 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[Sarah1281]

I have a question about the Keeper. I'm at the quest where you have to end up killing the possessed Keeper now. Merrill and I talked to the Keeper and she tried to talk Merrill out of pursuing the mirror. But...by this point the Keeper must already be possessed as there's now way she can beat us to the demon AND have enough time to get herself possessed in Merrill's steed. But what if the Keeper had gotten through to Merrill? What if Merrill had decided that the Keeper was right and she was going to abandon the eluvian? The Keeper still would have been possessed and need die.

[GuiltySource]

If you go down the rival path, does the keeper still die? Or does the quest line end in act 2 when you refuse to give her the tool?

[Addai]

GuiltySource wrote...

If you go down the rival path, does the keeper still die? Or does the quest line end in act 2 when you refuse to give her the tool?

I kept her toy away from her and it didn't matter, the quest continued, keeper still died, and so did everyone else.

[Clover Rider]

Addai67 wrote...

GuiltySource wrote...

If you go down the rival path, does the keeper still die? Or does the quest line end in act 2 when you refuse to give her the tool?

I kept her toy away from her and it didn't matter, the quest continued, keeper still died, and so did everyone else.

Well you know you don't have to kill the clan but you have to kill the stupid keeper=].

Modifié par Some Geth, 21 mars 2011 - 07:08 .

[Eire Icon]

Why would Hawke help Merrill? for me theres numerous reasons

Firstly Hawke is either a Mage or not. If he is a Mage this potentially powerful magical mirror is going to intrigue him, maybe it can be used to help him achieve his goals maybe it will give him a better insight into magic. Even if he is not a mage, his sister is and his family line has magic within it. Granted its not the most powerful of reasons but its a reason none the ;less

Secondly Merrill is going to do this quest anyway, with or without Hawkes help. Shes given up her tribe and lifestyle in the pursuit of this mirror. If it works out ok she's a powerful ally, if it dosent then its better to be there to ensure the mirror is destroyed

Whether Hawke buys the whole "Butter wouldn't melt" routine that Merrill has going on or not is irrelevent. There is reason for him to go, whether that be curiousity, concern, duty, greed or a thirst for power.

In my own opinion the only reason for him not to go is fear, and my Hawke dosen't do fear to be honest

[Addai]

Eire Icon wrote...
In my own opinion the only reason for him not to go is fear, and my Hawke dosen't do fear to be honest

But I think Hawke does, potentially, do self-interest and common sense.

I mean, my snarky mage says "tell me you didn't bring the killer mirror here just because it's pretty" and that's the tone I take about the quest.

However, like most of them, you do it because it's in your journal and I guess that's enough. 

[Eire Icon]

Addai67 wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...
In my own opinion the only reason for him not to go is fear, and my Hawke dosen't do fear to be honest

But I think Hawke does, potentially, do self-interest and common sense.

I mean, my snarky mage says "tell me you didn't bring the killer mirror here just because it's pretty" and that's the tone I take about the quest.

However, like most of them, you do it because it's in your journal and I guess that's enough. 

But does it not make common sense for a self serving Hawke to investigate what this whole Mirror thing is about?

It could make him or his ally more powerful, it could be worth a fortune either. Fair enough there is risk attached, but their is risk attached to everything Hawke does. If he dosen't care overly for Merrill he can take her down at the first sign of trouble justifying it as her own stupid fault for being so naive

Also Merrill is a powerful mage and companion, letting her go off on her own means leaving his side and weakening his team

[Sarah1281]

However, like most of them, you do it because it's in your journal and I guess that's enough.

I know! Carver wouldn't let me leave for the Deep Roads expedition until I had 'all of my business taken care of.' Please, Petrice can be mugged and killed in Lowtown for all I care. It would really do the rest of Kirkwall a favor, actually.

[Addai]

Eire Icon wrote...
But does it not make common sense for a self serving Hawke to investigate what this whole Mirror thing is about?

It could make him or his ally more powerful, it could be worth a fortune either. Fair enough there is risk attached, but their is risk attached to everything Hawke does. If he dosen't care overly for Merrill he can take her down at the first sign of trouble justifying it as her own stupid fault for being so naive

Also Merrill is a powerful mage and companion, letting her go off on her own means leaving his side and weakening his team

No, not to me it doesn't.  You know nothing about the mirror but what Merrill briefly tells you.  Magical artifacts are laying all over Kirkwall.  A broken elven mirror that may or may not do anything would not mean much IMO, unless somehow you knew about eluvians.

Merrill doesn't leave your group if you refuse to do her quest, so unlike Fenris, she's still available as an ally whether you help her with her obsession or not.

[Arnyhold]

That was a lot of post to catch up with.
Now I understand this better thanks for the comments, the whole motivation thingie makes more sense to me now.

Just to reply for the off topic blood magic thing: every single bloodmage in the game is eventually becomes evil no matter who they are.
Yes grey wardens do not forbid it, but it was several times mentioned that this is an end justifies the mean philosophy. The wardens are not good guys (their alignment is gray as well ). Their duty is to fight the darkspawn, beside that they can be anyones. Avernus is the only gray warden bloodmage you meet and he is pretty much evil. At least I consider murdering and torturing your own fellow wardens in exchange for power is pretty cruel even if he meant to improve their possibilites against the darkspawns.
Your PC can be a bloodmage gameplaywise, but I never really felt it real, because there was never ever any hint or had any impact on the dialogues or story that he/she actually one (too bad btw)
.
Bloodmagic is not bad, they are only hunted... Wrong... Check Tevinter. Also the whole act 3 is based on this whole mage-templar necessity dilemma. No matter what you do most of the mages start summoning demons everywhere, turn into a huge fleshgolem. The game made it a fact this is not just generalization. I play as a mage and I do believe the stronger should rule like in tevinter, but saying they are just mistreated is far from truth. :-) Being the last option to turn for bloodmagic not really justifies it either, because it is suggested/implemented that you have to learn the knowledge, either from demons, forbidden books or other maleficars. You dont just slit your wrists and cast magic.

Elves do not like bloodmagic. If I recall well everyone pretty much hated Merill apart from the keeper.

Merill is no exception. Every mage in the game thinks he/she is an exception. Just because Merill learned a lot not makes her corrupt-proof. From the posts and this summary I recognized that making her a bloodmage was a good choice after all. :-) Eventually Merill ended up destroying everything, because she thought she can controll it. Thank you guys again for sharing your thoughts!

Modifié par Arnyhold, 22 mars 2011 - 11:13 .

[nos_astra]

Addai67 wrote...
For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

I'm not sure if the quest is bugged but I refused to help Merrill, but ended up looking in the mountains for resources and when I said hello to the Dalish, the quest line continued regardless. I then told Marethari about Merrill's plans and she anded up sacrificing herself for Merrill and I managed to get that clan to back down. All in all it seemed like a bit like an accident.

[Eire Icon]

Addai67 wrote...

Merrill doesn't leave your group if you refuse to do her quest, so unlike Fenris, she's still available as an ally whether you help her with her obsession or not.

True, but you only find this out if you do it. If your truely role playing you don't have the benefit of that knowledge

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...
For those who are more skeptical of Merrill... how do you rationalize pursuing her quest? I'm about to go fight the varterral and I'm trying to figure out why my PC would be risking her life for Merrill's pretty mirror. She's a mercenary and doesn't take on big creatures out of the kindness of her heart but there's no reward in it for her.

Mine was looking to make money off of selling the thing. It's one of the Herbalist Task's, after all.

[cglasgow]

klarabella wrote...

I then told Marethari about Merrill's plans and she anded up sacrificing herself for Merrill and I managed to get that clan to back down. All in all it seemed like a bit like an accident.

Marethari still binds herself to the demon even if you give her no advance warning at all.  I had it happen even in a playthrough where I refused to give Merrill the arulin'holm in act 2 and never spoke to the Keeper again after that.

It's like she already did it before you got to the camp in act 3, even.  Weird.

Modifié par cglasgow, 22 mars 2011 - 05:53 .