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So, two worst people in the game are your friends?


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#176
DrGulag

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[

In Mass Effect 2 for example...


It's a military warship and the members are bound by duty to fulfill their mission to save the galaxy. It would be pointless to have mutiny . Personal differences are meaningless in that game altough maybe a couple of instances where a companion might leave would have added something to the story. 

But I didnt have a problem in Origins that the companions might attack you at some point during the game. I just didnt like the DA2 friends at all or their personalities. 

Modifié par DrGulag, 19 mars 2011 - 06:54 .


#177
Arppis

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Hey, people have different motivators. I like it that these party members don't tell everything to the player and reveal their cards later on. Plus, I kind of play table-top RPG like this sometimes. I like to cause trouble during the adventures so there will be more potential for adventures and exciting situations.

Like in this one game my character basicaly stomed a wedding of this elven woman he had feelings for, kicked the groom to the face (he happened to be somekind of elven lord) and raced away with the tied elven lady tied to my griffon. It actualy lead to loads of adventures and fun situations (and ofcourse my character got a fist in his face from the lady elf after they landed).

So these are awesome adventure hooks and I would love to see people doing mistakes intentionaly just to make things more interesting.

:)

#178
stubert46

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Machines Are Us wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Ookay... not sure why having companions that would be in complete agreement with what you do and never cross you no matter what, would make for a better story... but you guys can keep on rambling anyway.


Exactly. I despised Anders and Isabela for what they did, but kudos for Bioware for not making it all soft.

In Mass Effect 2 for example you can spout hatred about Cerberus all day and all night but Miranda can still love you. You can show no sympathy for the Quarians, get Tali exiled, take Veetor to an Anti-Alien terrorist organisation and she is still in love with you.


Because quarians who date outside the species are shunned anyways, gotta keep them bloodlines pure. She knew she was outcast the moment Shepherd walked in and said "Hey mind helping me kill some aliens who are gonna wipe out all life in our galaxy?" Whats not to love?

#179
Knightstar2001

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Rafe34 wrote...

@Emzaniation: And what if a mage does not want to be leashed to a phylactery, so that the government knows where he is at all times? Do you force it on them?

Mages use blood magic a lot more than just when they are forced into a corner. How was Merrill forced into a corner? Grace?

You are essentially saying that because people have done something one way for a thousand years, we should hold everyone within that system guilty for its abuses, destroy the entire system, and dictate to the masses that you are going to have our way, (no chantry, and just a few temples here and there), period.

You are throwing the baby out with the bath-water. The Circle is a necessary evil to prevent an even greater one.

I don't remember Wynne's apprentice, I shall have to look him up. As for Morrigan, the templars came after them because of Flemeth. You know, the crazy demon lady who kidnaps little girls from their families and then possesses their bodies so she can live for thousands of years? Yeah, she's kinda the definition of evil- they were after her. We are given no evidence beyond Morrigan's word that they were even aware of her- and how would the templars tracking her and what she thought to be her mother down, look to a little girl? Of course it looks like they're trying to kill her, because they know what Flemeth is/was.

Keeping every mage leashed to a phylactery merely allows you to know where one who has turned into a blood mage, is. It will not give you enough time to actually stop their initial rampage, just you will be able to eventually kill them after they've killed many innocents. Big whoop.

I'm saying, that if you, in essence, launch a holy war AGAINST the chantry, you will turn the populace on you. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of tactics, and knowing how the masses think. You point out the flaws in the system, and you get people agreeing with you, and then you have enough support to fix those flaws. If you start out by saying that the Divine needs to die because of what she was contemplating doing- which I honestly can't believe you said that, especially since you get that from the same epilogue that says Morrigan may even be pregnat, when you very well could have ended Origins so that she was not, and regardless, we don't execute people for what they contemplate doing- you're going to turn many people against you that would be fine trying to fix the Chantry's flaws.

War is messy, but some are not worth winning at any cost. Especially not when you can achieve your goals far easier than saying you want "the Divine's head on a pike." It immediately brands your rebellion as extreme and limits the number of people who might wish to join you, while bringing in more people who are willing to do anything to bring down the Chantry. Sure, you might eventually bring it down, but is it worth it if you destroy Thedas in the process?


So we are using two people as examples that mages will turn to blood magic without being pushed into a corner? Didn't Grace learn blood magic while she and the others were being hunted by the templars?
Merrill is the worst example to use if trying to say or show that blood mages are evil. The magic itself is not evil, It is just that most mages who use it have evil(in the minds of templars and the chantry) intent. The fact that they stop relying on thier own blood and start spilling the blood of others also hurt it's rep. Merrill uses her own blood to perform her blood magic and has only the interest of her people in mind. She even understands the dangers of dealing with demons(or the darker spirits of the fade) and treats them with caution. I blame the death of the keeper on herself since she decided that Merrill would end up releasing the demon and getting taken over with no trust in her. She brought that fate on herself.

If we look at how the chantry works,then judging them by what they contemplate doing is reasonable and seems to be the norm. It does seem to be the stance they took on Mages. this mage might do this or might become that,so lets take them all and lock them up  while stripping them of their rights.

#180
BingoParadox

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Merrill wasn't evil, she was prideful. No matter what anyone told her, she was sure she could handle the demon without being possessed. If her master, the Keeper, couldn't handle it you could be virtually assured that she would have fallen as well. The Keeper told her, everyone in her village told her, but she wouldn't believe anyone. She kept on saying "If they'd just have faith in me. I can do it." She would have kept saying that right up until she wasn't in control of her voice any more. Which was a real shame, because I found her a much more attractive person than Isabela. Her sin was pride.

Modifié par BingoParadox, 21 mars 2011 - 04:58 .


#181
Knightstar2001

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The keeper released the demon from it's prison just to seal it into a weaker prison that she knew and intend to have fall. the keeper never tried to handle the demon,she just wanted to make it so that Merrill would be forced to kill her( and with her the demon) because she believed that the demon would be able to trick Merrill into making the mirror a portal through which it could escape the original prison. My view is that keeper never gave Merrill a chance due to her pride that she knew better and the clan just has a general fear of Blood magic.

#182
nicolom

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Feel like teaching Isabella a lesson after learning about her involvement with the Qunari plot-line? Hand her over to the Arishok if she returns with the artifact at the end of act 2. She doesn't show up? Praise yourself lucky - you'll never see the ***** again.

Outraged by Anders deed? Stick a knife in his back after choosing which side - mages or templars - to support.

I fail to see how the game forces you to be pals with either of the characters.

#183
Unichrone

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Vilegrim wrote...

Din't realise that Hawke was friends with Mereidth and the Divine....


Oh, look.  Anti-religious remarks.  How creative, and not cliche' and overrused at all.  

#184
Unichrone

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nicolom wrote...

Feel like teaching Isabella a lesson after learning about her involvement with the Qunari plot-line? Hand her over to the Arishok if she returns with the artifact at the end of act 2. She doesn't show up? Praise yourself lucky - you'll never see the ***** again.

Outraged by Anders deed? Stick a knife in his back after choosing which side - mages or templars - to support.

I fail to see how the game forces you to be pals with either of the characters.


I feel this is a very, very good point.  Kudos to BW for doing this-- yes, you find yourself in a situation where sometimes your companions make decisions that go against your entire life-philosophies.  And if that's the case, you can deal with them how you see fit.  Choice.  

#185
terdferguson123

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I am absolutely astonished by the number of people who didn't understand the point of the games storyline. No matter how much you believe in someone or something you can never truly change them. A bad situation always eventually turns into a worse one no matter how much you try to put it off. And that no matter what choice you make it effects someone or something whether it be small or great.

This games story is amazing, if anything because of the lessons it teaches about how choice and influence actually work in reality. Great job Bioware, and please don't listen to these fools who say they want a game where they can change everything into the perfect situation, we have enough of those already.

#186
Ktula

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terdferguson123 wrote...

I am absolutely astonished by the number of people who didn't understand the point of the games storyline. No matter how much you believe in someone or something you can never truly change them. A bad situation always eventually turns into a worse one no matter how much you try to put it off. And that no matter what choice you make it effects someone or something whether it be small or great.

This games story is amazing, if anything because of the lessons it teaches about how choice and influence actually work in reality. Great job Bioware, and please don't listen to these fools who say they want a game where they can change everything into the perfect situation, we have enough of those already.


Yep, hard times when stories end without the hero walking off into the untainted sunset! , something about that storyline that people really seem to struggle with.
IMO, it lines up perfectly for an expansion/da3 to continue the story because this really sets the world up for a war that is really even bigger than the blight, it will most likely spread to different lands and cover even more of the map, even tho this story takes place mostly in 1 town.

#187
Evolution33

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I liked the companions and how choice worked in this game. It was interesting to see small choices I made having impact later on. There was no this or that choice, but it felt like every choice I made changed something, but in the end none of it ultimately mattered because I was just some Ferelden refugee that happened to climb to the status of champion. The major players were Orsino and Meredeth and nothing anyone did was going to stop them from war. Even if Anders didn't blow up the Chantry they were ready to come to blows. That act is the same as the assination of the Arch-Duke or the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is the act that lets the tension boil over. Sometimes in life no matter what you do, no matter how powerful you become, and no matter how hard you try you simply can't stop what's coming.

#188
Ktula

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If you compare it to mass effect, your a soldier and you save the world from somethin pretty big, then in the second, you realise the rabbit whole goes a whole lot deeper and its even bigger than you first thought, and it keeps baiting you along.

In DA, it starts out with one aspect, that one ends, but it doesnt it isnt really finished, but they have introduced you to a world which is quite different to the first, and blights dont exactly happen every few weeks :P You start to realise that mages are seriously oppressed, be it good or a bad, i think everyone could agree Anders could have gone about it a better way, but the world is changing and we saw signs of the mages problem all throughout the story in DA:O.

Now suddenly we are thrown into a world that has evolved into a story more about different factions, rather that having a clear cut enemy, i think its a great story!

#189
LobselVith8

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BingoParadox wrote...

Merrill wasn't evil, she was prideful. No matter what anyone told her, she was sure she could handle the demon without being possessed.


This isn't accurate. Merrill knows the risks. She specifically asks Hawke to come with her to kill her if she gets possessed, and she clearly knows this is a possibility when you listen to her dialogue with Aveline. She doesn't think she'll make it, but she's willing to gamble her life if it means it benefits her people, no matter how great and likely the risk to her life.

#190
Thiefy

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LobselVith8 wrote...

BingoParadox wrote...

Merrill wasn't evil, she was prideful. No matter what anyone told her, she was sure she could handle the demon without being possessed.


This isn't accurate. Merrill knows the risks. She specifically asks Hawke to come with her to kill her if she gets possessed, and she clearly knows this is a possibility when you listen to her dialogue with Aveline. She doesn't think she'll make it, but she's willing to gamble her life if it means it benefits her people, no matter how great and likely the risk to her life.


actually that is incorrect, she doesn't know the risks. she thinks she is only risking herself but what other people have been telling her that she risks more than just herself. the outcome was exactly that - other people had to pay for her ignorance.

#191
LobselVith8

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Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

actually that is incorrect, she doesn't know the risks. she thinks she is only risking herself but what other people have been telling her that she risks more than just herself. the outcome was exactly that - other people had to pay for her ignorance.


Her ignorance? What ignorance was displayed? She knows all spirits are dangerous. She admits there's a good chance she'll get possessed, and will need to be killed. She clearly knows the risks involved, but is willing to pay the price if it means there's a small chance she'll be able to give something back to her people. She does know the risks. She's studied for years, meticiulously putting together the Eluvian and she knows what she'll face with Audacity. She's surprised the clan is still at Sundermount because they should have left years ago, so they weren't even supposed to be a factor. She knows Hawke can handle himself after knowing him for seven years, and Merrill is risking her life by dealing with Audacity. We have no idea what would happen because the Keeper intervened.

#192
dcvdg

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I personally thought that Isabella was a great character. Keep in mind her backstory.
1) She was "married" to a man who treated her like an object.
2) Later she fell in love, which ended up breaking both their hearts, and she was thereafter afraid to let down her guard and care for anyone (or let anyone care for her) after that.
3) She is the only woman on a ship, filled with disreputable men, for long periods of time
4) She is a female captain in a profession dominated by men

Of course she's going to be fairly self-centered, concerned with her own welfare foremost. She stole the relic, but didn't get to keep it. the Qunari chased her from Orlais and sank her ship. She keeps trying to find it, and eventually she tracks it down. At least in my game she runs ... but comes back. She tries to return quickly, but ends up being too late. There was no way for her to know that the Qunari, after having waited "patiently" in Kirkwall for 3 years would suddenly go crazy and start killing everyone in the town.

Honestly, the theft of the book really had nothing to do with the Qunari attack on the city. The *only* way that I see the theft being related is that the Qunari were in the city, and thus exposed to the culture of the city. The Qunari did not finally attack because of the book. The Qunari attacked because the Arishok got tired of seeing what was going on in the city and was finally fed up with it all.

Back to my point, though, is that Isabella changed because of my romance. you could see her coming out of her shell, and starting to think of other before herself. Sure, it was a slow process, and the most dramatic change happened a bit too late to be really useful, but I hardly see her as one of the "worst" people in the game. She is a fun-loving woman who has to put up a strong front in a male dominated society/profession. I wonder if the Isabella haters have not tried romancing her. You get a lot more of her side of the story, and peeks into her nature, which is surprisingly less selfish than you might think. A lot of it is her being afraid to let herself care for others.