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[Matterialize]

On the other hand, you could argue that their unfair treatment based solely on their appearance is a theme that reflects the greed and generally foul nature of humans. It's not that they must look alien, but that they're being shoved in the mud because they look alien. An aspect of humanity that is also addressed, more directly and with greater rancor, by the Arishok.

It's easier to make nobility treat the elves like crap if there's an obvious visual difference. Same thing with black people in American history (no offense)

[tmp7704]

Matterialize wrote...

On the other hand, you could argue that their unfair treatment based solely on their appearance is a theme that reflects the greed and generally foul nature of humans.

Yes, that's fair enough. I was replying to statement that having a race closely resemble humans would have no purpose whatsoever, which i disagree with. Whether the writers actually wanted to make use of this potential aspect to their story, or go for alternative like the one you point out, is another matter.

Modifié par tmp7704, 19 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[Matterialize]

Ah, sorry about that. I do agree with you in that regard.

[Iakus]

Dwarves, yeah look largely the same.
Elves, the change isn't so bad, except now the ears are way too big.  The term shouldn't be "knife ear" now but "rabbit ear" ("sword ear" just doesn't have the same ring)
Qunari:  I'm conflicted.  The look is indeed impressive, but it's undeniably a retcon.  And I hate retcons on general principle.

[Esbatty]

I think the redesigns were a great idea, they make the races more memorable.

The Dwarves have the more subtle of the changes, in DAO they had the overall more attractive females. But in DA2 they had incredibly expressive eyes that just spoke volumes be it a cocked eyebrow from Varric, to Bodahn's announcement he is leaving with Sandal, to Bartrand going nutso chango. Their eyes and expressions said volumes. Not a big change but it beat the smile-frown-neutral of DAO's dwarves.

The Kossith (aka the Qunari/Tal Vashoth), are just - I can't quite pin down what they remind me of from various other fantasy sources - and thus are the most huge change since I spend upwards of 30 hours with Sten whom is not only not horned but also part of some special ops/honorguard. The pale pinkish-purple mixed with mottled deep crimson make them look like slabs of pure muscle as if the Maker thought "What if I could make a bull hurl spears and fire cannons, but not because it has to but, ya know, f**k Thedas?" The Saarebas alone are just equal parts intimidating and stoic, it was bad enough having the Arishok eye you down but these guys you can't even see their eyes so you have no idea where you stood. Great work.

The Elves - while originally I was taken aback by their new look, but once I heard the voices and had that coupled with actual animated elves it all clicked. The Dalish descended from Elven Nobility and the City Elves were not nobility and got stuck adopting humanity's ways. So the jump from DAO to DA2's elves made alot of sense. The changes to their facial structures, were the biggest departure visually but they also make them stand out. Whereas a DAO elf could probably put on a hooded cloak or, eesh, get their ears cropped and pass for human. Here in DA2 there was no masking their racial identity. No matter how much money the accrued or power they could wield they'd forever be first and foremost and Elf, and anything else second.

So, I do indeed approve of the Race Redesigns in DA2.

ACK, and the Darkspawn, I like it. I wasn't a fan of the Genlock Emissarys. They were like chubby little sorcerors spawned from dwarven broodmothers, and it didn't make sense that a non-magic race would produce magic users even when filtered through the magical opposite of a genepool Brita filter.

[PickledGear]

I tend to think that everything is in Varric's mind when he explains everything. Such as Bethany's bosom at the beginning is huge but when he changes his story its made small. Perhaps everything including the darkspawn is according to Varric's mind. Especially the darkspawn, I hate their redesign in DA2. Hurlocks are just retarded looking. Perhaps remove their noses again and they could be scary but the fact hurlocks have faces make them particularly not scary.

From what I saw the genlocks look like in DA legends I'm appalled it seems like they went "Hey lets make a genlock look like a blight bear (or whatever they're called) I know genlocks were just small hurlocks but you knew where they came from a dwarf broodmother. The ogre redesign isn't changed that much but they need to go back to the ape design of the face. It would go well with what the qunari look like now. I'd hate to see what a shriek will look like, Although theres a high probability that they didn't change the shriek at all.

[Byth]

I like the new redesigns. As for the elves...well the companion elves(Fenris, Merrill) look great to the point where I almost loathe not being able to choose race, the rest is sorta hit and miss. I could see a little bit of a change in dwarves(longer bodies) and the qunari are the best looking redesign in my opinion.

[Deylar]

But ugh.

Maybe the redesign worked for the Dalish.

But for city elves.

Certainly they are going to have some more human features. Simply because of the contact with humans. And breeding across craces.

[TJSolo]

Scars Unseen wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

I disagree. There is no reason to include elves at all, if you are going to make no effort to differentiate them from humans.

Efforts have been made in various games and books.
Subtlety is lost on a lot of people.

Okay, I'll make a longer post then.  What I said was in reference to this game series, Dragon Age.  Not various games and books.  Dragon Age, where elves do not hide among humans by wearing a hoodie, but rather are openly discriminated against and segregated by humans.  

Sublety works fine when a specific work calls for it.  Dragonlance?  Tanis Half-Elven grows a beard to hide his elven ancestry.  Shannara?  Wren Elessedil hid her ancestry by wearing her hair differently.  These books called for a subtle difference in the races' appearances.  Dragon Age has the elves either thrown into an alienage, or having to fiercely protect what land they have remaining (Origins handled this aspect better than DA2, IMO).  There is no need for sublety here, because the only purpose it would serve would be to water down the race since the only other difference between them and humans in DA is culture.

Increasing the size of noses and putting a pair of baseballs in their eyesockets has nothing to with the amount of persecution the elves in this game franchise go through. The plight of the DA elves was well established in DAO since the differences were small like stature and ears it made their plight stronger. Redesigning the elves to make them even more alien serves to further distance the gamer from identifying with them.

Same goes for the Qunari.  How many people thought that Qunari was just
a different human culture at the beginning of Origins?  Sten just
doesn't look different enough to justify calling him a separate species.

1? 1,000,000? I don't care how many thought Sten was just a human from a different culture upon first meeting him. The codex pops up and clearly defines that in the DA world "Bronze skinned, white haired giants" are Qunari, thus setting the rules for when the player sees more "bronze skinned, white haired giants."


I am sick of retcons from EA Bioware and the internal inconsistency they introduce. Looking cool or pretty does not mean **** to me.

[Scars Unseen]

tmp7704 wrote...

Matterialize wrote...

On the other hand, you could argue that their unfair treatment based solely on their appearance is a theme that reflects the greed and generally foul nature of humans.

Yes, that's fair enough. I was replying to statement that having a race closely resemble humans would have no purpose whatsoever, which i disagree with. Whether the writers actually wanted to make use of this potential aspect to their story, or go for alternative like the one you point out, is another matter.

Once again, I'm not talking about how the elves could be used in some hypothetical othe story.  I'm talkng about how they were used in Dragon Age 2.  The story would not have been made any richer by making the elves look like humans with slightly different heads.  The game is made visually richer by making them something other than simply humans with slightly different looking heads, even if you don't like the particular flavor.  There is no real reason for a group that lives all of a few miles away to speak with highly different accents, either.  It still is nice to have them in the game, though.

Modifié par Scars Unseen, 19 mars 2011 - 07:15 .

[Aermas]

Making them look more human would make them more interesting because they would have more options as a suppressed race.

[DariusKalera]

Scars Unseen wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Matterialize wrote...

On the other hand, you could argue that their unfair treatment based solely on their appearance is a theme that reflects the greed and generally foul nature of humans.

Yes, that's fair enough. I was replying to statement that having a race closely resemble humans would have no purpose whatsoever, which i disagree with. Whether the writers actually wanted to make use of this potential aspect to their story, or go for alternative like the one you point out, is another matter.

Once again, I'm not talking about how the elves could be used in some hypothetical othe story.  I'm talkng about how they were used in Dragon Age 2.  The story would not have been made any richer by making the elves look like humans with slightly different heads.  The game is made visually richer by making them something other than simply humans with slightly different looking heads, even if you don't like the particular flavor.  There is no real reason for a group that lives all of a few miles away to speak with highly different accents, either.  It still is nice to have them in the game, though.

I don't know about the story beign made "richer" by makign them how they look now.  A bit sillier maybe, at least in my opinion.

After seeing the elves, I am kinda glad that they did not put in the elves as a playable race because you just know that someone would make a mod that would allow you to turn them blue.

[Scars Unseen]

Aermas wrote...

Making them look more human would make them more interesting because they would have more options as a suppressed race.

What options?  They are non-player characters, and as such, have the options the writers give them.  And the writers did not give any indication that elves were hiding in plain sight among humans (although the alienage itself allows an apostate to hide in plain sight among templars, apparently).  In fact, the only places that elves seem to run in the game are to the Dalish and the Qunari.  

Modifié par Scars Unseen, 19 mars 2011 - 07:21 .

[Deylar]

Scars Unseen wrote...
What options?  They are non-player characters, and as such, have the options the writers give them.  And the writers did not give any indication that elves were hiding in plain sight among humans (although the alienage itself allows an apostate to hide in plain sight among templars, apparently).  In fact, the only places that elves seem to run in the game are to the Dalish and the Qunari.  

Elves are suppose to look human. They are suppose to be a hybrid of human and creature.

That's what humanoid is.

Or do you not seem to understand the definition of humanoid?

It doesn't mean Na'vi.

It means looking kind of human.

Modifié par Deylar, 19 mars 2011 - 07:22 .

[Scars Unseen]

Deylar wrote...

Scars Unseen wrote...
What options?  They are non-player characters, and as such, have the options the writers give them.  And the writers did not give any indication that elves were hiding in plain sight among humans (although the alienage itself allows an apostate to hide in plain sight among templars, apparently).  In fact, the only places that elves seem to run in the game are to the Dalish and the Qunari.  

Elves are suppose to look human. They are suppose to be a hybrid of human and creature.

That's what humanoid is.

Or do you not seem to understand the definition of humanoid?

It doesn't mean Na'vi.

It means looking kind of human.

I understand the defintion of humanoid.  

hu·man·oid adj[/i] \\ˈhyü-mə-ˌnȯid, ˈyü-\\

Definition of HUMANOID:
 having human form or characteristics

Examples of HUMANOID

The movie is about humanoid aliens invading Earth.

EDIT:  Next time I'll just link to Webster.  They are apparently not copy/paste friendly.

Modifié par Scars Unseen, 19 mars 2011 - 07:28 .

[Matterialize]

They do look 'kind of human'. What's the big deal?

[Some Geth]

 I was fine with them all.

As for the new Elf look some look good some look bad.

Modifié par Some Geth, 19 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Deylar]

Scars Unseen wrote...
I understand the defintion of humanoid.  

hu·man·oid adj[/i] ˈhyü-mə-ˌnȯid, ˈyü-

Definition of HUMANOID:
 having human form or characteristics

Examples of HUMANOID

The movie is about humanoid aliens invading Earth.

EDIT:  Next time I'll just link to Webster.  They are apparently not copy/paste friendly.

Elves should have human features.

According to the fact thta most have probably bred or forced bred with humans. In most mythology they are explained as mystical humans.

They looked like 

[Sigma Tauri]

Deylar wrote...

Scars Unseen wrote...
I understand the defintion of humanoid.  

hu·man·oid adj[/i] ˈhyü-mə-ˌnȯid, ˈyü-

Definition of HUMANOID:
 having human form or characteristics

Examples of HUMANOID

The movie is about humanoid aliens invading Earth.

EDIT:  Next time I'll just link to Webster.  They are apparently not copy/paste friendly.

Elves should have human features.

According to the fact thta most have probably bred or forced bred with humans. In most mythology they are explained as mystical humans.

They looked like 

You're confusing disproportionate with humanoid.

And Oblivion's Facegen makes elves more alien than the new redesigns. Actually, alien is being nice. It's just downright nasty.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 19 mars 2011 - 07:36 .

[Matterialize]

Deylar wrote...

Elves should have human features.

They do. You can't actually be this dumb, cut it out.

[Deylar]

Matterialize wrote...
They do. You can't actually be this dumb, cut it out.

I don't equate looking like a bug with big nasty mosquito eyes as human. 

Sorry if that disappoints you.

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

I didn't really like the redesigns that much. The elves seemed to get their inspiration from the Navi'i as someone mention earlier and Nosferatu vampires with a few gray aliens (Sectoids for you Xcom Fans, if there are any besides me) out there. They didn't look good to me at all. Distracting. Merrill was ok but she was a rare one.
Horned Qunari..ok. Can live with that retcon I guess, but I find it difficult to reconcile a race that invented gunpowder in this world and chemical weapons would run around bare chested or wearing armor that looks like it was made out of lawn furniture pillaged from the local Wal-mart. Too much cognitive dissonance there.
Darkspawn..meh. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the old ones. I liked the old lumpy Ogres. Other than that, don't mind too much.

[Sigma Tauri]

Deylar wrote...

Matterialize wrote...
They do. You can't actually be this dumb, cut it out.

I don't equate looking like a bug with big nasty mosquito eyes as human. 

Sorry if that disappoints you.

You're not disappointing as astounding at your blockheadedness.

Looking like a nasty mosquito bug to you doesn't change their humanoid characteristic. This isn't a matter of debate.

[lltoon]

I'm more confused why Bioware didn't use their own concept art for the elf design. I mean they looked fine in the pics.

[Deylar]

monkeycamoran wrote...
You're not disappointing as astounding at your blockheadedness.

Looking like a nasty mosquito bug to you doesn't change their humanoid characteristic. This isn't a matter of debate.

Look, I'm old fashion.

I like sticking to mythology. And posted a few pictures of Real Elves.

Not this JRPG crap.