137 réponses à ce sujet

[schwegburt]

The ending offered very little closure which serves as the main gripe for most of us by the looks of things.

Endings can be ambiguous and still satisfying but this one just had about a 1 minute blurb by Varric about what happened. A bit of foreshadowing by the Seeker works, no problem there. You don't need an epilogue about what happened to every damn bit piece npc you aided (or ruined).

BUT good endings need something to help wrap up the story. Especially games where you invest +30 hours in the narrative an ending like DA 2 leaves a rather hollow tang to everything.

[Chou Monster]

But...the end isn't the end...That's the point!

[Nialos]

@Everwarden: I wonder, is it so hard to simply say "I respectfully disagree with your opinion"? Low standards have nothing to do with it - some people just have different preferences.

Modifié par Nialos, 19 mars 2011 - 03:53 .

[HTTP 404]

I thought it was really good, I actually like endings that are not spelled out to me.

[Akron1983]

Chou Monster wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Treating DA2 like its own self conclusive story is like saying Empire Strike Back isn't a good story because it left too many things unresolved.
 

Funny how games and movies have so many similarties and end up being judged so differently. Not that I don't understand all the technical reasons why...but DA2's writing is golden. Empire Strikes Back is a very fitting example, I think.

I just really hope Flemeth isn't the Emperor...she's just too awesome.

But a game is not a movie. It never will be. A game you play to get a story but more importantly you play to win. To accomplish something. DA2 gives you nothing. You dont solve anything... at all...

You cant compare it to Empire Strikes back. In that movie you acctually meet your enemy. Luke starts his training, he meets Vader, get to know that he is his father (NOOOOOOO!!!) and they escape.

Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

[Nialos]

Akron1983 wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Treating DA2 like its own self conclusive story is like saying Empire Strike Back isn't a good story because it left too many things unresolved.
 

Funny how games and movies have so many similarties and end up being judged so differently. Not that I don't understand all the technical reasons why...but DA2's writing is golden. Empire Strikes Back is a very fitting example, I think.

I just really hope Flemeth isn't the Emperor...she's just too awesome.

But a game is not a movie. It never will be. A game you play to get a story but more importantly you play to win. To accomplish something. DA2 gives you nothing. You dont solve anything... at all...

You cant compare it to Empire Strikes back. In that movie you acctually meet your enemy. Luke starts his training, he meets Vader, get to know that he is his father (NOOOOOOO!!!) and they escape.

Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

Honestly? That sounds like it'd actually be funny to watch.

[Akron1983]

Nialos wrote...

Akron1983 wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Treating DA2 like its own self conclusive story is like saying Empire Strike Back isn't a good story because it left too many things unresolved.
 

Funny how games and movies have so many similarties and end up being judged so differently. Not that I don't understand all the technical reasons why...but DA2's writing is golden. Empire Strikes Back is a very fitting example, I think.

I just really hope Flemeth isn't the Emperor...she's just too awesome.

But a game is not a movie. It never will be. A game you play to get a story but more importantly you play to win. To accomplish something. DA2 gives you nothing. You dont solve anything... at all...

You cant compare it to Empire Strikes back. In that movie you acctually meet your enemy. Luke starts his training, he meets Vader, get to know that he is his father (NOOOOOOO!!!) and they escape.

Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

Honestly? That sounds like it'd actually be funny to watch.

Funny because you know the real story but its just bad storytelling.

[Oxy Clean]

Akron that made me laugh...

[Foolsfolly]

Chou Monster wrote...

But...the end isn't the end...That's the point!

That's the point of the complaints though.

This isn't some serial story told in a comic book or a TV show. This is a 60 dollar game that you spend 40 hours on and that come out every 2-4 years.

Serial storytelling cannot exist like that. Your stories need to have endings. We want an ending not a string along for another adventure. This is BioWare, we're probably going to be along for their next adventure regardless. So finish this story and we'll promise we'll be there for the next one.

[Nialos]

@Akron: No, funny because I find stories involving characters named 'Bob' entertaining. I can never understand why.

[Chou Monster]

Akron1983 wrote...
Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

But, that's not how mine ended  (not to mention that there's a lot more actually going on in Bob's life than a better office.)

Mine ended with Bobbie realizing that despite her best efforts and all her hard work, all she had to rely on was the only real thing she ever had! Love! Her better office left a bitter taste in her mouth and she may have lost her entire family, but she regained a meaningful relationship and was willing to risk the world for it. (And much like Milton's triumphant burning of Inatech in Office Space, a crazed gentleman destroys the institution that had been chaining everyone up, in his mind.)   ...Sorta?

Bobbie may be naive and idealistic, but she made that choice and THAT's what makes it enjoyable to me. I just get into character that way

I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree! At very least, the game has depth enough to provoke some sort of discussion beyond, "My opinion is better because it is mine!" Even if it's awfully late and at the risk of sounding silly...I don't mind! I really enjoyed DA2 *and* it's ending...so, there ya go! Goodnight!

[dreman9999]

Everwarden wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
 I give them an A+ for the end.

Well, good for you. I'm sure you'll love the end of Fallout 3, Fable 1, and the Sopranos. Those endings are great too, if you have extremely low standards.

Your missing the fact that the ending was a lose/lose and it made you consider both sides of the confict in hand. Everyone had their point and everyone was wrong. And themoment Anders did what he did was the most heart shattering part of the game. If you play this game and did not think about anything in the story then everything was lost on you.

[dreman9999]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

But...the end isn't the end...That's the point!

That's the point of the complaints though.

This isn't some serial story told in a comic book or a TV show. This is a 60 dollar game that you spend 40 hours on and that come out every 2-4 years.

Serial storytelling cannot exist like that. Your stories need to have endings. We want an ending not a string along for another adventure. This is BioWare, we're probably going to be along for their next adventure regardless. So finish this story and we'll promise we'll be there for the next one.

If it took you 40 houras to play....stop playing on normal. Also, how many game now a days are 40 hours long. And I beat this game in 60 hours.

[Akron1983]

dreman9999 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

But...the end isn't the end...That's the point!

That's the point of the complaints though.

This isn't some serial story told in a comic book or a TV show. This is a 60 dollar game that you spend 40 hours on and that come out every 2-4 years.

Serial storytelling cannot exist like that. Your stories need to have endings. We want an ending not a string along for another adventure. This is BioWare, we're probably going to be along for their next adventure regardless. So finish this story and we'll promise we'll be there for the next one.

If it took you 40 houras to play....stop playing on normal. Also, how many game now a days are 40 hours long. And I beat this game in 60 hours.

His argument was about the story not the playtime. The story dont change on hard and nightmare.

[Tempest]

Quick response. Didn't we already know what the ending was? There is a huge civil war. Gray Wardens are going into the war as well. Essentially the ending is the start of DA's version of World War I. The "story" was going to explain how this all began, from which it did very well. So we played the prelude to Dragon Age: World War.

[Foolsfolly]

Would it have been better if I said 60 hours? 50? What's the time that true real gamers clock in at these days?

What's the time matter? 40 hours just seemed about right of a game time to me, it was a long game but not as long as the first.

[Baelyn]

Akron1983 wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Treating DA2 like its own self conclusive story is like saying Empire Strike Back isn't a good story because it left too many things unresolved.
 

Funny how games and movies have so many similarties and end up being judged so differently. Not that I don't understand all the technical reasons why...but DA2's writing is golden. Empire Strikes Back is a very fitting example, I think.

I just really hope Flemeth isn't the Emperor...she's just too awesome.

But a game is not a movie. It never will be. A game you play to get a story but more importantly you play to win. To accomplish something. DA2 gives you nothing. You dont solve anything... at all...

You cant compare it to Empire Strikes back. In that movie you acctually meet your enemy. Luke starts his training, he meets Vader, get to know that he is his father (NOOOOOOO!!!) and they escape.

Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. I play a game for the experience....not to "win." I'm not saying that means my opinion is right or yours wrong, but you can't speak for all gamers and say that everyone that sits down with a game plays as a means to an end. I know many people like me play a game for the emotional and mental experience they get from it. Not just to win.

As a poster said above, we already knew the ending before we played the game. We knew the world was going to be in turmoil and everything plunged into chaos. What this game set out to do, and did very well in my opinion, was to allow you to play out how that came to be. Not to fix everything. Not to win. But to experience pure chaos and feel helpless at the hands of destiny. That was its end.

What we got after the story (Varric's final conversation with Cassandra and the subsequent scene to follow) was simply a teaser. It wasn't designed to be a part of this game but to wet the appetite for people on what was to come.

[Big_Choppa]

The ending was one of the few things I enjoyed in this game. I was playing through it just to see the end. It's probably the last time too.

[Akron1983]

Baelyn wrote...

Akron1983 wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Treating DA2 like its own self conclusive story is like saying Empire Strike Back isn't a good story because it left too many things unresolved.
 

Funny how games and movies have so many similarties and end up being judged so differently. Not that I don't understand all the technical reasons why...but DA2's writing is golden. Empire Strikes Back is a very fitting example, I think.

I just really hope Flemeth isn't the Emperor...she's just too awesome.

But a game is not a movie. It never will be. A game you play to get a story but more importantly you play to win. To accomplish something. DA2 gives you nothing. You dont solve anything... at all...

You cant compare it to Empire Strikes back. In that movie you acctually meet your enemy. Luke starts his training, he meets Vader, get to know that he is his father (NOOOOOOO!!!) and they escape.

Now imagine that Empire strikes back suddenly was about Bob, the office worker on the planet Generic.
Instead of getting to know anything about the empire, the rebels, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and the rest you get to follow Bob and his struggle to get a better office. During the movie you would get small hints to that Bob might be important to the rebellion maybe but in the end all you know is that Bob got to be boss over the company. Fired his old "Evil" boss and made lots of money and after getting everything he wants he just leaves the planet for unknown reasons.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. I play a game for the experience....not to "win." I'm not saying that means my opinion is right or yours wrong, but you can't speak for all gamers and say that everyone that sits down with a game plays as a means to an end. I know many people like me play a game for the emotional and mental experience they get from it. Not just to win.

As a poster said above, we already knew the ending before we played the game. We knew the world was going to be in turmoil and everything plunged into chaos. What this game set out to do, and did very well in my opinion, was to allow you to play out how that came to be. Not to fix everything. Not to win. But to experience pure chaos and feel helpless at the hands of destiny. That was its end.

What we got after the story (Varric's final conversation with Cassandra and the subsequent scene to follow) was simply a teaser. It wasn't designed to be a part of this game but to wet the appetite for people on what was to come.

Before DA2 i would have said that no one wants to play a game where you dont at least win something.
Story is important, it motivates me to play and a game is nothing without it but in the end I want the feeling that I accomplished something. That I've at least won some small victory in the large scheme of things.

I have now changed my mind on this since some people seem to like the no-accomplishment ending in DA2.
I still think that most people want some sort of closure and that great feeling that they accomplished something though.

[M_arc]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Chou Monster wrote...

But...the end isn't the end...That's the point!

That's the point of the complaints though.

This isn't some serial story told in a comic book or a TV show. This is a 60 dollar game that you spend 40 hours on and that come out every 2-4 years.

Serial storytelling cannot exist like that. Your stories need to have endings. We want an ending not a string along for another adventure. This is BioWare, we're probably going to be along for their next adventure regardless. So finish this story and we'll promise we'll be there for the next one.

Well Berserk has been running since ~1990 with all the main antagonists still alive and no ending in sight
The scenario in which the author is dead before he can write the ending is a pretty popular stance in the community atm. 

[gnaag]

The ending was fine, I would say that 99% of us could not do any better. It was supposed to end like that. It was referenced in the hunt for the witch when morrigen says something was going to change the world. DA 2 is the story of the hero and how he was there at the change of the world, took part in it etc. Like any good story that is going to continue it has to be open.

I look forward to the continue of the story. If you hate the ending so much don't play, if you hate dlc don't buy it. If you can do better then do so and stop complaining. But as far as I'm concerned the ending was good and Bioware make the best story driven games around.

[Akron1983]

Dont complain because I cant do it better? lol
I'll remember that the next time I buy a TV or something and it doesnt work. Cant build a TV of your own that works? Too bad for you, just dont buy a TV then!

I do want to point out though that Im not trying to badmouth BioWare or its writers.
They had a tough job of living up to all the high expectations about Morrigan and her baby, Flemeth, the old gods and so on.
Instead they said F all that and told another part of the story instead. Not an easy thing to do but in my opinion it didnt turn out very well. BioWare do make the best story driven game around and I hope they will continue to do so for years to come but this was far from their best work and I should be allowed to express my opinion about this without having the skill to write the better story for them.

Modifié par Akron1983, 19 mars 2011 - 04:54 .

[Sketchy77]

I don't really have a problem with the ending, I assume they will continue it with the DLC and thats far enough. I'm more unhappy about the fact I can't do ANYTHING at the end of the game. Your stuck in the Hawke estate and your character can't even do the ending again.

Thats just weird.
Is there anything i'm missing?

[Big_Choppa]

Sketchy77 wrote...

I don't really have a problem with the ending, I assume they will continue it with the DLC and thats far enough. I'm more unhappy about the fact I can't do ANYTHING at the end of the game. Your stuck in the Hawke estate and your character can't even do the ending again.

Thats just weird.
Is there anything i'm missing?

Hawke didn't escape. He was put under house arrest.

[rma2110]

It's true that it seems like nothing you do really matters. Hawke quickly loses control of events and they play out like they play out. I just feel so ... helpless, and that is the point. I love it. If Hawke's story is continued in an expansion or DLC then count me in. I'm secretly hoping Hawke will become a seeker.

Books can end in cliff-hanger, and so can movies. They take years to come out too.