74 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghostwize]

I read somewhere around here there was a bit of a glitch with imported saves regarding conversation flags or something where your choices imported default to a generic situation that would arise had you not imported later in the game.

[randName]

smore006 wrote...
Saying this is cheapening or ignoring your DA:O decision is just wrong.

What?  Will you now tell me that my preference for a certain colour is also wrong? 

For me anything like this greartly cheapens my game experience - how can you even dare to claim that I'm wrong? You can claim that you don't have a problem with it, but the gall to claim that my own opion and feelings are incorrect? 

Or there is a big chance that too many issues like this will keep me away from any title, including DA3; not saying I'm such a continutiy fundamentalist that I won't accept it; and accepting that Leliana was alive was fine, but that she would be apart of the chantry is not, since my Wardens were always operating against the chantry, and did their best to ruin it as much as possible; and either Leliana was with me (Hardened and all, or she died as I desecrated the urn).

Modifié par randName, 18 mars 2011 - 05:55 .

[Aumata]

This kind of reminded me of a certain templar that was said to be insane, appearing right in front of me sane. I mean I had a back story of that certain templar killing my mage warden, nice to see that be retconned. Now I have to create another back story to how my mage warden died.

[marshalleck]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Anders: A wizard did it.

Or you could assume (as I'm sure this is the "reasoning" that will be behind it) that, similar to Zaeed being shot in the head and left for dead but surviving it, that your giant two-handed sword killing blow on her wasn't enough to kill her and she was simply knocked out. Now, if you visually watched her head disappearing as you executed her, you could say that the Guardian of the place was tricking you into thinking she was dead.

I'm grasping around for an answer here.

I cut off her head...

'tis just a flesh wound!

[Satyricon331]

Conduit0 wrote...
I love how people demand the impossible and then cry like a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get it. The simple reality is that there is no humanly possible way to write a consistant story while trying to accommodate every possible choice you could make in DA:O. Its flat out idiotic to even expect such a thing. The fact that any of our choices carry over puts DA2 ahead of most games where one canon ending is chosen and the rest are completely forsaken.

It would have been entirely "humanly possible" not to have such an inconsistency.  I never killed Leliana, so for my playthroughs it isn't an issue, but it was careless of Bioware not to have accounted for the issue.  I've seen several posters remark that they beheaded Leliana, and the lore prevents resurrection (unlike in BG).  They could have just omitted the cameo or have it keyed to whether Leli lived, (highlight for mild spoiler) as they did for some of the other cameos, like Zevran who doesn't show up if you killed him (barring a bug).  

[joriandrake]

I don't mind at all characters showing up again but only if it doesn't break your previous decision, characters from previous games that could have died should not be a core/important character in next games, they might do pop up and talk to you, perhaps have a quest or two related to them, or may even if you are in a war come to your aid or against you with an additional army, but these shouldn't be forced upon in implausible cases

The only way she could always be around even in saves where she is dead (or hardened) is.... that well, she is dead, that the Leliana of DA2 is not the real Leliana to begin with, and may be an impostor (unknown twin?) or a demon. In that case however this should be stated by the devs to clear up the issue.

[randName]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...
I love how people demand the impossible and then cry like a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get it. The simple reality is that there is no humanly possible way to write a consistant story while trying to accommodate every possible choice you could make in DA:O. Its flat out idiotic to even expect such a thing. The fact that any of our choices carry over puts DA2 ahead of most games where one canon ending is chosen and the rest are completely forsaken.

It would have been entirely "humanly possible" not to have such an inconsistency.  I never killed Leliana, so for my playthroughs it isn't an issue, but it was careless of Bioware not to have accounted for the issue.  I've seen several posters remark that they beheaded Leliana, and the lore prevents resurrection (unlike in BG).  They could have just omitted the cameo or have it keyed to whether Leli lived, (highlight for mild spoiler) as they did for some of the other cameos, like Zevran who doesn't show up if you killed him (barring a bug).  

Yes.

Since you can more or less gib people, you can do so with her as well; so we aren't talking about simply breathing life in someone, nor as with Anders and the spirit since you were somewhere else; here she could actually be killed in any way you could kill people in DA:O,  so shattering or worse are all enteriely posible.

[CitizenSnips]

MachDelta wrote...

Eh, maybe she was only mostly dead and then crawled over to Andraste's urn and snorted big line, which made her feel better?
Iono. *Shrug*

It'll be retconned and basically be something along this line.

GET IT?!@?!?

But for real.

[Time Victim]

"Dying is for fools. Amateurs."

[CRISIS1717]

I'm guessing Leliana could possibly be the reincarnation of Andraste.

[Rocambole4]

joriandrake wrote...

I don't mind at all characters showing up again but only if it doesn't break your previous decision, characters from previous games that could have died should not be a core/important character in next games, they might do pop up and talk to you, perhaps have a quest or two related to them, or may even if you are in a war come to your aid or against you with an additional army, but these shouldn't be forced upon in implausible cases

The only way she could always be around even in saves where she is dead (or hardened) is.... that well, she is dead, that the Leliana of DA2 is not the real Leliana to begin with, and may be an impostor (unknown twin?) or a demon. In that case however this should be stated by the devs to clear up the issue.

True answer  1 - omg we forgot they could kill her and Zevran
True answer 2 - let's pretend we didn't notice, not to many players killed her

PR answer - Demon, flesh wound, stupid warden left her alive because he NEVER notice if his slain enemies are slain or not (even tough only slain enemies but HER are lootable).

This is sad, really. This, more than all the technical flaws, killed the DA series to me. 300 hours of DA:O and 50 of DA2 and they ignore what I felt my chars did because it was TOO hard to create something with Lelianna dead? A char they FORCED me to kill, mind you?

Bla.

[Rocambole4]

Rocambole4 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I don't mind at all characters showing up again but only if it doesn't break your previous decision, characters from previous games that could have died should not be a core/important character in next games, they might do pop up and talk to you, perhaps have a quest or two related to them, or may even if you are in a war come to your aid or against you with an additional army, but these shouldn't be forced upon in implausible cases

The only way she could always be around even in saves where she is dead (or hardened) is.... that well, she is dead, that the Leliana of DA2 is not the real Leliana to begin with, and may be an impostor (unknown twin?) or a demon. In that case however this should be stated by the devs to clear up the issue.

True answer  1 - omg we forgot they could kill her and Zevran
True answer 2 - let's pretend we didn't notice, not to many players killed her

PR answer - Demon, flesh wound, stupid warden left her alive because he NEVER notice if his slain enemies are slain or not (even tough only slain enemies but HER are lootable).

This is sad, really. This, more than all the technical flaws, killed the DA series to me. 300 hours of DA:O and 50 of DA2 and they ignore what I felt my chars did because it was TOO hard to create something with Lelianna dead? A char they FORCED me to kill, mind you?

Bla.

I'm guessing Leliana could possibly be the reincarnation of Andraste.

Yeah, other PR answer. So Leliannas ARE the incarnationS of Andraste. Also, they get pretty pissed when you make the ashes wet. She tried to kill me for it.

Or maybe this is DA 2: Lelianna's clone wars.

[Conduit0]

randName wrote...

Don't be a ******, there is perfectly simple solution to this; don't use Leliana at all in DA2 or DA3, or only to such an extent that its possible to have her, and not.

I don't want zombies walking around; Anders is kind of undead, or can be, and Flemeth is more than human, so fine ~ but Leliana isn't, and she is too ingrained and is too changable in DA:O for her to be usuable in any larger extent later.

& I rather not see these people at all, than to see all that I did in a previous game be shown pointless and for naught.

Satyricon331 wrote...

It would have been entirely "humanly possible" not to have such an inconsistency.  I never killed Leliana, so for my playthroughs it isn't an issue, but it was careless of Bioware not to have accounted for the issue.  I've seen several posters remark that they beheaded Leliana, and the lore prevents resurrection (unlike in BG).  They could have just omitted the cameo or have it keyed to whether Leli lived, (highlight for mild spoiler) as they did for some of the other cameos, like Zevran who doesn't show up if you killed him (barring a bug).  

An over arcing storyline is impossible that way, If every character that can possibly die has to be written into the next game in such a way that they don't have to be there, it completely eliminates any relation from one story to the next, and if they remove the ability to kill off or atleast get rid of certain characters that are key to the story you'll just whine that you don't have the freedom to kill them. Frankly I suggest you forget about DA and stick to game series like TES where none of the games in the franchise are related if the realities of a multi-game storyline are too much for you to handle.

[smore006]

randName wrote...

smore006 wrote...
Saying this is cheapening or ignoring your DA:O decision is just wrong.

What?  Will you now tell me that my preference for a certain colour is also wrong? 

For me anything like this greartly cheapens my game experience - how can you even dare to claim that I'm wrong? You can claim that you don't have a problem with it, but the gall to claim that my own opion and feelings are incorrect? 

Or there is a big chance that too many issues like this will keep me away from any title, including DA3; not saying I'm such a continutiy fundamentalist that I won't accept it; and accepting that Leliana was alive was fine, but that she would be apart of the chantry is not, since my Wardens were always operating against the chantry, and did their best to ruin it as much as possible; and either Leliana was with me (Hardened and all, or she died as I desecrated the urn).

Let me rephrase then: 
Saying this is cheapening or ignoring your illusion of a decision is just wrong. 
There is a virtually infinite number of possible explanations; explanations Bioware might not be bothered enough to make.

"Out of character" i say it's just game, not nearly worth enough to justify the existence of this debate. They are most right when they say that we are voting with our money.

"In character" the PC's informations about the powers of Thedas are way too limited to determine the possible consequences of his/her actions.

No one cared how the Warden survived Ostagar and how did (s)he got to Flemeth's hut. It was in the plot Bioware set up.
A number of similar examples can be brought to the table.

Now most people seem to care about how Leliana survived what seemed to be her death, even though it's in plot Bioware set up. 

The Warden was clearly not important enough for his/her decisions to really shape the way the little pieces fall into the grand puzzle. We may or may not like it but that's just the way it is.

Modifié par smore006, 18 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[SultryVulcan]

joriandrake wrote...

So, how come she is around if you kill her in DA1? Did Andraste revive her or what? This pretty much overrides the DA rules about resurrection and teleportation.

Leli in DA2, what the hell are you talking about?

Modifié par SultryVulcan, 18 mars 2011 - 07:02 .

[Ghostwize]

SultryVulcan wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

So, how come she is around if you kill her in DA1? Did Andraste revive her or what? This pretty much overrides the DA rules about resurrection and teleportation.

Leli in DA2, what the hell are yoy talking about?

I don't think they ever call her Lilliana in DA2. She is refered to as Sister Nightengale.

[smore006]

Naah, she says you may call her Leliana then in response to a question confirms she is the one who used to travel with the Warden.

[Haristo]

Conduit0 wrote...

I love how people demand the impossible and then cry like a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get it. The simple reality is that there is no humanly possible way to write a consistant story while trying to accommodate every possible choice you could make in DA:O. Its flat out idiotic to even expect such a thing. The fact that any of our choices carry over puts DA2 ahead of most games where one canon ending is chosen and the rest are completely forsaken.

so why can they ACTUALLY DO IT in the Mass Effect Trilogy and not in Dragon Age ?

the Answer is pure lazyness... this is why I'll no longer import my DA:O character in DA2 and simply continue the canon story. 

[Aermas]

Khayness wrote...

She got better.

Best answer ever

[Conduit0]

Haristo wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

I love how people demand the impossible and then cry like a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get it. The simple reality is that there is no humanly possible way to write a consistant story while trying to accommodate every possible choice you could make in DA:O. Its flat out idiotic to even expect such a thing. The fact that any of our choices carry over puts DA2 ahead of most games where one canon ending is chosen and the rest are completely forsaken.

so why can they ACTUALLY DO IT in the Mass Effect Trilogy and not in Dragon Age ?

the Answer is pure lazyness... this is why I'll no longer import my DA:O character in DA2 and simply continue the canon story. 

They manage it in the ME storyline because they just didn't give you the option to kill off characters important to the main storyline, and like I said if they did that with DA people would just whine that BW took away their freedom. When people are determined to find fault and be unhappy about something there is no way to please them.

[Nogthwai]

I'm unfamiliar with Lelianas Death and didn't find anything on youtube - is it safe to assume from the DA:O cutscene that she is really dead? I mean someone explained that she gets kicked over and that's it.

[Rocambole4]

They manage it in the ME storyline because they just didn't give you the option to kill off characters important to the main storyline, and like I said if they did that with DA people would just whine that BW took away their freedom. When people are determined to find fault and be unhappy about something there is no way to please them.[/quote]

Nah it would be EASY to do. They just did a bad decision (or sinply forgot she could be killed). They are professionals, you know.

But let's think your rationale has any merit for a second. They should come clean and say "no, you CANNOT import your game". Simple as that. They didn't implement that right.

[Bryy_Miller]

There's a very strong possibility that there may be a definite answer in the third game. After all, Zevran, Nathaniel, and Alistair don't show up if they are dead.

[Rocambole4]

Nogthwai wrote...

I'm unfamiliar with Lelianas Death and didn't find anything on youtube - is it safe to assume from the DA:O cutscene that she is really dead? I mean someone explained that she gets kicked over and that's it.

It's not a cutscene. She betrays you if you destroy the ashes, you kill her yourself, then loot her.

[Valus]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6589945#6592174

Yeah, that. In a nutshell. Your choices matter, until they don't.

Whatever, it's fantasy. I think the least of our worries is bringing back a npc. If affording them the opportunity to rehash old and possible dead npcs will free up budgeting to, I dunno, make more than one cave in the next game then I am all for it.