74 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

randName wrote...


Don't be a ******, there is perfectly simple solution to this; don't use Leliana at all in DA2 or DA3, or only to such an extent that its possible to have her, and not.

I don't want zombies walking around; Anders is kind of undead, or can be, and Flemeth is more than human, so fine ~ but Leliana isn't, and she is too ingrained and is too changable in DA:O for her to be usuable in any larger extent later.

& I rather not see these people at all, than to see all that I did in a previous game be shown pointless and for naught.

Agreed. Leliana is one of my personal favorite characters from DA:O, but I don't like that they've retroactively given her character shields. Much rather they'd just followed what they wrote about her in the epilogues, ie. that she either stays with the Warden, or heads back to Orlais, or whatever.

[Cody211282]

Because Bioware thinks your way of playing their game is wrong.

[Crabhand]

I'm willing to bet it was some kind of medieval Lazarus Project by the Chantry.

[randName]

Conduit0 wrote...
An over arcing storyline is impossible that way, If every character that can possibly die has to be written into the next game in such a way that they don't have to be there, it completely eliminates any relation from one story to the next, and if they remove the ability to kill off or atleast get rid of certain characters that are key to the story you'll just whine that you don't have the freedom to kill them. Frankly I suggest you forget about DA and stick to game series like TES where none of the games in the franchise are related if the realities of a multi-game storyline are too much for you to handle.

You truly are special & you put a lot of words in my mouth that I have never said.

I only want that those decisions they allow us should stand, or never to be mentioned again (With DLCs and extras I don't really care, since I see these to be more outside the Canon); I don't mind that you can't kill everyone, in fact I prefer it that you can't change everything because that would make continuity too hard to manage.

& I prefer it that DA3 and ME3 would be like DA2 and ME2 over a game that breaks all your choices in the past; placed just outside the boundary of the previous games through time or place, while close enough to share a few overlapping stories; like the death of Ashley or Kaidan, or seeing Nathan or Zevran again depending on your actions.

So outside buggy imports the only big flaw continuty wise in DA2 is Leliana, now you are telling me I play the wrong types of games?  How hard would it have been for them not to have her in this game at all? How much did this glimpse really give us? Nothing. DA2 would have been just as good for most, and better for those that did kill her, if there had been some else instead.

&
I wouldn't have minded if Leliana was always rigorously close to the chantry, and she couldn't be killed, or if they had made someone extremely alike to the religious and alive Leliana in all but name and hair, with the same voice and all; and for those that did change her, or kill her; they would have used this copy cat character that would sprout the same dialogue save a few lines; with both being called by their title over their name (Nighting Gale apparently).

So I still hope that it was all a bug, and that Leliana will either not be in DA3, or she can be in it, or if BW really want her to be in it that that they make an replacement character to fulfill the same function, and use mostly the same dialogue and voice ~ and that Leliana is given a new name that can work on both (the later seems to already be inplace).

Modifié par randName, 18 mars 2011 - 08:21 .

[MisterJB]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Agreed. Leliana is one of my personal favorite characters from DA:O, but I don't like that they've retroactively given her character shields. Much rather they'd just followed what they wrote about her in the epilogues, ie. that she either stays with the Warden, or heads back to Orlais, or whatever.

Well, Val Royeaux is the capital of the Chantry and it is in Orlais. So, it does no need to be epilogue breaking.

[Lenimph]

JanisaryJames wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

Eh, maybe she was only mostly dead and then crawled over to Andraste's urn and snorted big line, which made her feel better?
Iono. *Shrug*

I lawl'd.

I admit I also tehe'd 

CRISIS1717 wrote...

I'm guessing Leliana could possibly be the reincarnation of Andraste.

This wouldn't surprise me actually.

Modifié par Lenimph, 18 mars 2011 - 08:25 .

[randName]

MisterJB wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Agreed. Leliana is one of my personal favorite characters from DA:O, but I don't like that they've retroactively given her character shields. Much rather they'd just followed what they wrote about her in the epilogues, ie. that she either stays with the Warden, or heads back to Orlais, or whatever.

Well, Val Royeaux is the capital of the Chantry and it is in Orlais. So, it does no need to be epilogue breaking.

That part doesn't ~ some endings would easily fit into this; esp. a Leliana that leaves for Val Royeaux at the end of DA:O, hardened or not.

The problem is that within the story around Leliana you the player can change her character from kind and religious, to her old bard/assassin character; and more so that she can die in DA:O (by your hand in gory pieces).

[randName]

Lenimph wrote...

JanisaryJames wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

Eh, maybe she was only mostly dead and then crawled over to Andraste's urn and snorted big line, which made her feel better?
Iono. *Shrug*

I lawl'd.

I admit I also tehe'd 

Maybe she is a reaver now ~ given that you descrate it with dragon blood first ~

[Jangocat]

Conduit0 wrote...

Haristo wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

I love how people demand the impossible and then cry like a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get it. The simple reality is that there is no humanly possible way to write a consistant story while trying to accommodate every possible choice you could make in DA:O. Its flat out idiotic to even expect such a thing. The fact that any of our choices carry over puts DA2 ahead of most games where one canon ending is chosen and the rest are completely forsaken.

so why can they ACTUALLY DO IT in the Mass Effect Trilogy and not in Dragon Age ?

the Answer is pure lazyness... this is why I'll no longer import my DA:O character in DA2 and simply continue the canon story. 

They manage it in the ME storyline because they just didn't give you the option to kill off characters important to the main storyline, and like I said if they did that with DA people would just whine that BW took away their freedom. When people are determined to find fault and be unhappy about something there is no way to please them.

Not true. In ME Ashley or Kaidan are killed because of your decisions and you kill Wrex of you can't talk him into seeing things your way. Those are pretty important characters. ME2 imported your decisions perfectly. If you killed Wrex another Krogan is in his place in ME2. I saw no zombies in ME2.

You see, there are flags for these events in a save file, it's not hard to import them over. ME2 even started the story like they were checking your memory and asked you the outcome of certain events just to be sure. Either the devs made a minor error here or they didn't want to have to record and program multiple scenes. It's not a huge deal but continuity is totally manageable.

[randName]

Jangocat wrote...
Not true. In ME Ashley or Kaidan are killed because of your decisions and you kill Wrex of you can't talk him into seeing things your way. Those are pretty important characters. ME2 imported your decisions perfectly. If you killed Wrex another Krogan is in his place in ME2. I saw no zombies in ME2.

You see, there are flags for these events in a save file, it's not hard to import them over. ME2 even started the story like they were checking your memory and asked you the outcome of certain events just to be sure. Either the devs made a minor error here or they didn't want to have to record and program multiple scenes. It's not a huge deal but continuity is totally manageable.

This.

I don't get why they suddenly decided to be so lazy in the DA universe.

[aknightofni]

Maker saved her, done and done. Problem, import story continuity?

Or the snorting Andraste thing. That was pretty funny.

[AkiKishi]

randName wrote...

Jangocat wrote...
Not true. In ME Ashley or Kaidan are killed because of your decisions and you kill Wrex of you can't talk him into seeing things your way. Those are pretty important characters. ME2 imported your decisions perfectly. If you killed Wrex another Krogan is in his place in ME2. I saw no zombies in ME2.

You see, there are flags for these events in a save file, it's not hard to import them over. ME2 even started the story like they were checking your memory and asked you the outcome of certain events just to be sure. Either the devs made a minor error here or they didn't want to have to record and program multiple scenes. It's not a huge deal but continuity is totally manageable.

This.

I don't get why they suddenly decided to be so lazy in the DA universe.

Because ME was planned out. They used the same cave and house in DA2 remember? Little details like people being dead or not were probably not high on the agenda.

[Nogthwai]

Rocambole4 wrote...

Nogthwai wrote...

I'm unfamiliar with Lelianas Death and didn't find anything on youtube - is it safe to assume from the DA:O cutscene that she is really dead? I mean someone explained that she gets kicked over and that's it.

It's not a cutscene. She betrays you if you destroy the ashes, you kill her yourself, then loot her.

Oh well, I'm quite undecided then; I don't know how serious I take the combat screen I general because of the way "deaths" are handled in the Game - you basically can't die and people just stand up again all the time. I decapitated Loghain in Game and then it took me to the sequence where he is talking again; but that can probably happen just because the game doesn't check for finishers on bosses that appear in cutscenes.

Still, it's quite possible you just knocked her unconscious - which is basically happens all the time as long as she is in your party . Why should she basically simply becomes mortal once she leaves your party?

Or Leliana ist just posessed...   

Modifié par Nogthwai, 18 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[randName]

BobSmith101 wrote...

randName wrote...

Jangocat wrote...
Not true. In ME Ashley or Kaidan are killed because of your decisions and you kill Wrex of you can't talk him into seeing things your way. Those are pretty important characters. ME2 imported your decisions perfectly. If you killed Wrex another Krogan is in his place in ME2. I saw no zombies in ME2.

You see, there are flags for these events in a save file, it's not hard to import them over. ME2 even started the story like they were checking your memory and asked you the outcome of certain events just to be sure. Either the devs made a minor error here or they didn't want to have to record and program multiple scenes. It's not a huge deal but continuity is totally manageable.

This.

I don't get why they suddenly decided to be so lazy in the DA universe.

Because ME was planned out. They used the same cave and house in DA2 remember? Little details like people being dead or not were probably not high on the agenda.

I should probably just give up on DA totally and just keep to ME; and its not even as DA2 had a good story, and even they they need to **** up up like this? Strange, and very disheartening.

[Conduit0]

Jangocat wrote...

Not true. In ME Ashley or Kaidan are killed because of your decisions and you kill Wrex of you can't talk him into seeing things your way. Those are pretty important characters. ME2 imported your decisions perfectly. If you killed Wrex another Krogan is in his place in ME2. I saw no zombies in ME2.

You see, there are flags for these events in a save file, it's not hard to import them over. ME2 even started the story like they were checking your memory and asked you the outcome of certain events just to be sure. Either the devs made a minor error here or they didn't want to have to record and program multiple scenes. It's not a huge deal but continuity is totally manageable.

All that means is that those characters were not critical to the story and therefore could die without adversely effecting the story of the next game. The simple fact that three other DA:O/A characters appear or don't depending on whether they are alive or dead in your import tells me that Bioware intentionally chose to say, "Leliana lived" likely because she plays a pivotal role in a future installment.

But now that I think about it, as much whining is going on over Leliana, I can't wait to see the ragegasm eruption thats going to happen when Morrigan's god child ends up the primary figure of a future DA game. I can see the posts now.

 BLAAAAARRRGGGGGHHHHH, THIS CHARACTER AND STORY CAN'T EXIST BECAUSE MY WARDEN DIDN'T EXCEPT THE DEAL!!!!!!!!11111rageoneoneone1111!!!!!!

[Satyricon331]

Conduit0 wrote...
An over arcing storyline is impossible that way, If every character that can possibly die has to be written into the next game in such a way that they don't have to be there, it completely eliminates any relation from one story to the next, and if they remove the ability to kill off or atleast get rid of certain characters that are key to the story you'll just whine that you don't have the freedom to kill them. Frankly I suggest you forget about DA and stick to game series like TES where none of the games in the franchise are related if the realities of a multi-game storyline are too much for you to handle.

Apparently, the realities of multi-game storylines are too much for you to handle, and I don't appreciate your immature tone.  It's completely illogical for you to assert that overarching storylines necessarily depend on being event-independent; it's almost self-refuting as they no longer have a storyline to present to many people.  But I think that's as far as I'm willing to discuss the matter with you.  Perhaps if someone else who has your opinion but has a constructive approach to the issue is willing to chime in, I might change my mind.  In the meantime, your irrationality is apparent to everyone here. 

[Riloux]

She's a bard. They know things.

[Deylar]

Satyricon331 wrote...
Apparently, the realities of multi-game storylines are too much for you to handle, and I don't appreciate your immature tone.  It's completely illogical for you to assert that overarching storylines necessarily depend on being event-independent; it's almost self-refuting as they no longer have a storyline to present to many people.  But I think that's as far as I'm willing to discuss the matter with you.  Perhaps if someone else who has your opinion but has a constructive approach to the issue is willing to chime in, I might change my mind.  In the meantime, your irrationality is apparent to everyone here. 

Agreed.

[Bathead]

OK, this is a bit of a stretch, I realize, I'm just throwing this out there. Maybe resurrection is not DA canon, but what about Illusion? Could not Leliana's death have been an illusion on some unknown third party's part?
 I'm just sayin'. 

Modifié par Bathead, 19 mars 2011 - 12:14 .

[Marta Rio]

Conduit0 wrote...
All that means is that those characters were not critical to the story and therefore could die without adversely effecting the story of the next game. The simple fact that three other DA:O/A characters appear or don't depending on whether they are alive or dead in your import tells me that Bioware intentionally chose to say, "Leliana lived" likely because she plays a pivotal role in a future installment.

Eh, one could argue that a good storyteller wouldn't need to resurrect a dead character to tell a good story.  If they had planned all this from the beginning, and Leliana has always been a crucial part of the third act, why give the option to kill her in such a brutal, unambiguous fashion?  And if they didn't have all this planned, why even bother bringing her back?  Why not develop a new character that could fill a similar role?

It kind of seems to me like they included her so they could give fans an "oooh, what a twist!" moment at the end of DA2.  But that twist only is really effective for people who recruited her/didn't kill her. 

But who knows, maybe the Bioware writers have come up with some amazing explanation for why she's back. 

[randName]

Bathead wrote...

OK, this is a bit of a stretch, I realize, I'm just throwing this out there. Maybe resurrection is not DA canon, but what about Illusion? Could not Leliana's death have been an illusion on some unknown third party's part?
 I'm just sayin'. 

DA3 will end with you waking up in a tent somewhere in the desert still high on the pyote you ate some hours ago.

Obviosuly either are possible solutions given how bad the writers of DA apparently are.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Since Oghren came back from dead, so can she. Maybe she woke up two days later naked in a bush just like what happened to Oghren.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 mars 2011 - 05:38 .

[Wulfram]

She's a popular character who I doubt dies in many peoples playthroughs. If they resurrected her just for the cameos in DA2, that would be a bit pointless, but I suspect they've got bigger plans for her which need her to be consistently alive.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

Its just poor design to create a story around characters that could have been killed in the original game. Its basically a big **** YOU YOURE WRONG.