72 réponses à ce sujet

[Xaisis]

on nightmare 2handers is a prob, they dmg friendlies and skills like "mighty blow" can kill an ally in 1 blow, yes they do high dmg but when u have to keep ur other dmg-dealers and main tank at range then it just seems like a bad deal.

having a 2hander in party meens controlling its every move. unless the rest of the party is ranged : )

[Graunt]

ezrafetch wrote...

Graunt wrote...

The Mach 5 build totally works with SnS, in fact you attack faster because SnS swing faster.

You don't actually gain more of a speed increase over a two-handed weapon though, and you also burn through stamina much faster using a one-handed weapon.  Now that I think about it though, I bet it would look something like a Diablo 2 Paladin using Zealot or Fanaticism.

Zealots?  20 Zeal, 20 Sacrifice, 20 Fanaticism, 20 Holy Shield?  Run Fanaticism for the IAS and ED, shift+Zeal and then move on.  Zealots aren't so good in D2 now though, Vindicators (Smite-oriented) are better.  But oh, D2.  I'd consider SnS warriors more like Paladins (Shield Bash = Smite...sort of, and fast auto-attacks = Zeal), and 2Hs like Barbarians (Whirlwind, except too bad DA2's WW isn't half as awesome as D2's...).  Though that is to say DA2's combat is a bit more visceral and satisfying than D2's...

How are you burning more stamina Berserking with an SnS if you're not actually attacking faster than a 2H though?  Unless I'm missing something...

That being said, I'm not a huge fan of auto-attacking, so I prefer Reaver approaches where you CAN spam abilities.

Heh, I knew "Zealot" didn't look right for the ability, although that's what the build was called.  I also didn't say you aren't attacking faster, I said you don't get more of a speed boost.  There's a difference.

having a 2hander in party meens controlling its every move. unless the rest of the party is ranged : )

That's the worst thing about playing a two-handed build, so much more micromanagement and pausing if you don't want to kill your party that it takes away much of the actual "fun" in playing the spec to begin with.  SnS isn't all that much different though if you're using Assault and Scatter with them around.  And even when it's all ranged, you still have to do this because the AI with Anders is something awful, and he's just gotta rush right up to whatever you're fighting and whack at it from nearly point blank range.

Modifié par Graunt, 19 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[ezrafetch]

Graunt wrote...


Heh, I knew "Zealot" didn't look right for the ability, although that's what the build was called.  I also didn't say you aren't attacking faster, I said you don't get more of a speed boost.  There's a difference.

Well, you say that you burn through stamina faster, so something's happening somewhere that makes SnS less effective at Berserking than 2Hs.  I assumed that was the reason, but I think I'm missing something fundamental here, ha.

having a 2hander in party meens controlling its every move. unless the rest of the party is ranged : )

That's the worst thing about playing a two-handed build, so much more micromanagement and pausing if you don't want to kill your party that it takes away much of the actual "fun" in playing the spec to begin with.  SnS isn't all that much different though if you're using Assault and Scatter with them around.  And even when it's all ranged, you still have to do this because the AI with Anders is something awful, and he's just gotta rush right up to whatever you're fighting and whack at it from nearly point blank range.

Yeah, 2H got a little too...reckless for my tastes.  Even with playing as a Mage with Fenris as my 2H, it got too ridiculous because he would always randomly Scythe backwards and into me, killing me in one hit.

[human tsunami]

i was bored one day with my warrior so i decided to try out some wacky build that i just started to spend talent points lik crazy and i actually made a good burst dmg sns build the key is to only use 4 points in sns getting shield bash and assault and their upgrades then get the speed buffs in reaver and berserker then spend ur points in vangaurd it takies some time to start because u activate ur buffs (cleave,barrage,ect) but u just destroy everyting on the screen

[mosesofwar]

Being a damage sponge is pretty fun for me; I like standing in the face of a Pride Demon, or Dragon and totally diminishing its ability to knock me back, stun me or use abilities.

[Huntress]

I am not fun of warriors in DA2 thats why only have 1 warrior she is stuck in level 8.. yeah I try her again and still fail.

Don't care I believe DAO dw warriors are the best and DA2 warriors are broken and unappealing.

[RangerSG]

I find my S&B far more enjoyable to play than the 2 hander, to be honest. As the numbers show, damage-wise, but Act 2 any distinction between the 2 trees in damage is minimal. Plus you're just a whole lot more survivable and have more runes to play with.

Not enough snazzy shields though... be nice to be able to slap heraldry on my shields like in DA:O.

And how did anyone think playing a 2 hander was MORE fun in DA:O than a S&B. You could get killed in Awakening in the time it took to get a single SWING in. The attack speed for 2 handed was absurdly slow.

I do miss dual wielding warriors though. Even if they'd just been realistic and made it main hand sword/off hand dirk I'd have been happy.

Or case of rapiers? Please?

Modifié par RangerSG, 24 juin 2011 - 01:13 .

[NaclynE]

Jman5 wrote...

I'm currently working on a Sword and Shield warrior right now and I think I understand the problem. I'm only in the first act, but my companions are absolutely blowing me out of the water in terms of DPS. Varric's crossbow has the highest DPS right now, Hayder's Razor and Staff of Parthenon are practically doubling my DPS on Fadeshear.

I understand that later on SnS it starts to shine, but for now it's frustrating how weak I am. I think this is what turns a lot of people off to it.

Well to be honest the person that started this topic said some things that to me didn't make sense but I think the second post made alot more sense about the bottom line subject.

I kind of do prefer Two handed for group control reasons because you wield your sword in a wider arc and do attacks that are designed to cut through groups. Sword and sheild actually isn't half bad since you concentrate on a or three targets as opposed to groups. My down point with sword and sheild is to not get berzerk because you won't be able to defeat tough bosses with alot of your powerful sword and shield attacks unless you get your sword and shield character accsesories that boost your stamina and recharge your stamina. Yeah you can go for the stamina recovery pool but with the Berzerk pool you'll notice that it seems useless when your in tough fights.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

SnS is all well and good in THIS game, but, as has been stated, that is generally a lower damage dealing tank and, for most games I do not want my primary to be a tank, that is the role of a supporter. Here a SnS can be a damager but, since most players have previous rpg experience, most simply don't give it a chance on Hawke.

[Itkovian]

My own first playthrough was what a DPS SnS warrior, and he worked great. I did not use any advertized builds, but it worked well at hard. By the end of the game my Hawke was a killing machine.

Basic build was to go for cleave and the destroyer talents, and then focus on crit chance and crit damage items. Since destroyer reduces armour by 50% against crits, the results were huge damage spikes (with a 30% crit rate).

Of course, since then cleave was substantially downgraded, so I'm not sure how good it is now. Is cleave any good since 1.03?

Itkovian

[Ace Attorney]

What in my post didn't make sense (take into account the time when it was written, no patches, etc.)?

NaclynE wrote...

Jman5 wrote...

I'm currently working on a Sword and Shield warrior right now and I think I understand the problem. I'm only in the first act, but my companions are absolutely blowing me out of the water in terms of DPS. Varric's crossbow has the highest DPS right now, Hayder's Razor and Staff of Parthenon are practically doubling my DPS on Fadeshear.

I understand that later on SnS it starts to shine, but for now it's frustrating how weak I am. I think this is what turns a lot of people off to it.

Well to be honest the person that started this topic said some things that to me didn't make sense but I think the second post made alot more sense about the bottom line subject.

I kind of do prefer Two handed for group control reasons because you wield your sword in a wider arc and do attacks that are designed to cut through groups. Sword and sheild actually isn't half bad since you concentrate on a or three targets as opposed to groups. My down point with sword and sheild is to not get berzerk because you won't be able to defeat tough bosses with alot of your powerful sword and shield attacks unless you get your sword and shield character accsesories that boost your stamina and recharge your stamina. Yeah you can go for the stamina recovery pool but with the Berzerk pool you'll notice that it seems useless when your in tough fights.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:40 .

[SageRuffin]

This may come off as silly, but I don't like how a SnS feels, not to mention none of the characters in my "pool" are really suited for such a fighting style.

Also, I like big swords. I think they're awesome.

[mr_afk]

T3hAnubis wrote...

What in my post didn't make sense (take into account the time when it was written, no patches, etc.)?

Don't worry; Your post made complete sense. 
The only reason why everyone jumped into the 2H bandwagon was probably because Arelex had that shiny rainbow coloured guide out there and people like to think that his guides cover the best and only builds. <_<
Haha there are builds that are just as viable or even better- but nobody sees it that way. I think that's probably what happened to the S&S.

Because pre-patch (especially with the dlc item pack), I would say that a S&S elemental crit-reaver was the most powerful build. The nature/spirit combo allowed elemental weaknesses to be continually exploited and the S&S tree is unmatched in terms of spike area damage - allowing tightly packed groups of enemies to be killed in one attack. This made it much superior to 2H for the first two acts, and you'll see that even Arelex had to use S&S builds for some of the speed runs.


Act3 I would say the 2H warrior becomes a lot more viable simply due to all the high-end elemental weapons they get access to. They have crappier spike damage and also have more issues remaining at low hp levels (blood frenzy is harder to maintain without the damage resistance+armour from shields) but weapons-wise they start to outmatch a S&S. And late game a S&S once again becomes superior due to the edge of night scaling past all the available weapons (as well as all the end-game spirit weaknesses).


The patch killed the reaver build and with it the S&S build. It still works but is no longer the glorious thing of the past. It's one of the reasons why I hate the patch- they took one of the my favourite playstyles, the art of blood frenzy (true glasscannoning) and made it feel like you're slapping enemies with a wet fish instead.
It almost is necessary post-patch to be a berserker- and with that comes a heavy reliance on auto-attacks. This means that spike damage builds lose out and auto-attack machines become superior.

Thus for all the reasons you listed (besides dps burst which is still probably incorrect), it is now probably better to use a 2H build unless you are facing specific elemental weaknesses- and a berserker vanguard S&S for all the other times. 

/end rant

Modifié par mr_afk, 12 juillet 2011 - 11:38 .

[AreleX]

THE DALES WILL NEVER SURRENDER

[AreleX]

the best? yes

the only? no

edit:

SageRuffin wrote...

This may come off as silly, but I
don't like how a SnS feels, not to mention none of the characters in my
"pool" are really suited for such a fighting style.

Also, I like big swords. I think they're awesome.

my thoughts exactly, i'll let someone else make the joke

Modifié par AreleX, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:19 .

[Ace Attorney]

Need to compensate something with that big weapon?

AreleX wrote...

the best? yes

the only? no

edit:

SageRuffin wrote...

This may come off as silly, but I
don't like how a SnS feels, not to mention none of the characters in my
"pool" are really suited for such a fighting style.

Also, I like big swords. I think they're awesome.

my thoughts exactly, i'll let someone else make the joke

[AreleX]

less that i'm overcompensating, more that i don't want the greatsword to get jealous

[Rheyn]

Isabela approves greatswords.

[Ryzaki]

Greatswords are win.

Besides my Hawke feels like a Badass walking around with just some armor and a giant sword on his back for protection. He don't need to hide behind some shield.

[happy_daiz]

They always remind me of Pyramid Head, and I like that. 

[PrinceLionheart]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Two-handers look better and are sexier. So they're better.

Pretty much lol. I dunno why, but it's just something about playing a tank feels...less stylish. It's why I could never get into the Sentinel in ME2.

[RPGamer13]

Personaly, I'm just a sucker for two handed swords. And in every other game they are the most powerful per hit, I prefer to hit hard even if attacks are slower and over time a faster weapon would deal more damage. Damage over time isn't my style.

The other thing is, I place highly aestethic value and the two-handed weapons appear to be more diverse in appearance. Might of The Sten is my favorite weapon in the whole game based on appearance alone.

[ripstrawberry]

Personally I prefer SNS builds now for a variety of reasons:

1.) sunder is bugged.
2.) I got bored of playing with a party on nightmare. So I soloed. Still felt the need to be challenged. So I loaded a pre-patch save and soloed on level 50 at nightmare. Edge of night and fadeshear finally showed their superiority over 2H weapons in this kind of playthrough. Scaling courage w/ runes of protection finally gave my warrior an armor rating on level 50 was a bonus.
3.) Everybody and their mother rolled with 2H. And I already rolled with 2H alot in DAO.
4.) I watched Captain America recently.
5.) Assault is the best single-target dps skill for warriors.