478 réponses à ce sujet

[HeathenKing]

Santiri_azz wrote...

close the thread please, too much hate and rambling ^^

Bioware should have seen this coming the moment they put homosexuality into the game. So long as there are ignorant morons flapping their lips and fingers about that which they don't understand, this subject will simply continue into a new topic once this one is closed. Might as well keep it here.

[TheDauntless]

ColeMR wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

Here's a question. Why should Bioware make all romances bisexual?

They ought to because it would be easy

All your other bat-sh*t crazy aside - that is a terrible reason to do anything.

And more to the matter, that would be stretching the realm of fantasy to the breaking point. Unable to speak for others but I can say that I, as a gamer, would be unable to accept a world presented to me where everybody was given the green light to sleep with...well, everybody. Unless it was some sort of sex/dating game, (though at that point I'd have bigger issues to contend with) but that's not the case with DA:O.

Why is it terrible? It would be giving more choices to everybody in a RPG setting. As for the fantasy immersion, I believe Morrigan's compliment of the vigor in her resident Grey Warden is a breach of the 4th wall. I am less familiar with fantasy settings than you are, however.

While it is a fantasy the characters were designed to bring the most realism to it. Realistically, the world isn't bi. At least, I know I've never switched teams just to keep from disappointing those people that hoped I would for them. As though they were so special that the notion that I could be hot for them was unpossible, no matter any other information (read: my actual sexuality, never mind if I even liked the person or not).

I think I see why people are so protective of these characters. In their minds some have already had relations or relationships with them before release date. I recognize the upset tones from all the way back when trolls were claiming they would "defend bastillas stragtness forevr" when people suggested how lovely it could be to become close to her as a woman, or to be close to Carth as a man.

Would it help to look at it this way: You're a completely gay male, yes? If a woman started freaking out, "hate crime!" 'cause you won't sleep with her would that make any sense? No. In fact, I doubt you'd have little sympathy for such behavior. Though I could be speaking out of turn in this analogy, but I hope the gist gets across.

I agree, it's not the same. I would not be misrepresenting that temperamental woman's sexuality to her detriment. Instead, BioWare exploits LGBT representations left and right.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:29 .

[Drasanil]

@TheDauntless: You strike me as the type of person who would accuse the pizza boy of being a homophobic zealot for being five minutes late. Trying to reason with you is in all honesty an exercise in futility. 

With that said, I sincerely hope you will enjoy not playing the game which has single handedly set back the cause of gays fifty years. No doubt your lack of a 60$ contribution will finacially cripple Bioware and with in the next 3 years they'll be forced to release Dragqueen Age- Diaries a revised version of the game where every one is gay or lesbian, except for the two token heteroes Zehvran and Lelianna

Modifié par Drasanil, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:24 .

[Saurel]

Ub3r_ wrote...

 In the real world i would not date a Bisexual, so why would i even bother in a game? sure it might be a turn on to have a FFM encounter, but i actually value my sexuality and what it means, and if im with someone i am not going to want to 'share' because i feel that's giving away something that is meant to be intimate between two people.

You wouldn't necessairly have to share.... it would depend on the individual and if they want an open relationship or not

[Drasanil]

HeathenKing wrote...

If gays should be treated equally in reality, why should they not be treated equally by their entertainment? Putting it as politely as I possibly can, you just sound like quite a c*nt.

I would politely -of course- suggest you either have trouble understanding what you read, or a very poor grasp of reality. When it becomes profitable for companies design a game with 50% of it's content aimed at gay audiences they will do so, until then guess what? Be happy with what you get or don't buy the game, its simple really. 

Modifié par Drasanil, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:50 .

[Sm1lingAssas1n]

A flaming grab for attention...



To put it simply, if you got your Alistair fanboy wish you'd probably complain about HIM being the only m/m option.

At the end of the day these are characters, this is dark fantasy, you can't always get what you want. But you did manage to create a 13 page long post based on your own petty boy-crush and once again mis-represented the gay community, thanks.

If this romance factor is the only reason you concidered purchasing the game then you were definately going to buy it for the wrong reasons, hey at least now you won't have to bother with that whole tedious 100 hours of original and innovatory gameplay just so you can sit with a smirk on your face to watch a 20 sec clip of 2 pixelated men do something that resembles the horizontal bop.



Bioware is breaking ground here regardless of what implied race or skin tone is being transposed, and the fact that the majority of players not only respect it, but admire it speaks volumes for where gender normatives could and hopefully will lead to in the future of gaming.



But that being said dont rely on an RPG for the fulfillment of a human relationship because its unhealthy and you'll only find dissapointment, go meet people!



People GOOD! Pixels BAD!

[TheDauntless]

Ub3r_ wrote...

TheDauntless, im going to go so far to say YOU ARE A HETROPHOBE!!!

your actions clearly show that all you want in this world, as much as DA:O is for everyone to be available to you for your own advances. It is purely selfish on your part and NOT considerate to what anyone else is or thinks. You insult the very designers of this game because they designed specific characters with likes/dislikes, wants and needs, each unique to the character, you insult them by suggesting that every character should be open to everything the PLAYER wants, this relegates the NPC into the position of PROP and not a true character.

You want all characters to be bisexual, something totally unrealistic, for what reason? to satisfy your own desires over the rest of the community and more importantly to satisfy your own desires OVER THOSE OF THE CHARACTERS!

NEWSFLASH:
90% of the world is straight, 10% are LGBT, BISEXUALS are included in that 10%, not "100% of the world are Bisexual, but only 10% are L/G" I would be sorely offended as a straight male if there was no straight male representation in the game, because it would prove a massive misconception with the current world view. On the same note i would understand your issues if there was no possible gay romance, so long as there was a character that could fulfill that role. In the real world i would not date a Bisexual, so why would i even bother in a game? sure it might be a turn on to have a FFM encounter, but i actually value my sexuality and what it means, and if im with someone i am not going to want to 'share' because i feel that's giving away something that is meant to be intimate between two people.

TheDauntless you are obviously being completely unreasonable, and really are giving the gay community a bad name with your constant acting victimized, you need to get off your Hetrophobic high horse and come down to reality. Stop insulting the creators and writers by suggesting characters be probs for the players whimsy and enjoy the damn game

How would they be props? I don't believe this is some anime rape game. Whatever else I may have to say about BioWare, I know they are not that.

If I remember correctly, romance-viable npcs do take some courting to get things going. Once declarations were made, some relationships cooled down and some needed watering. I guess in a way they are all props. Save your special memories at the right points and relive the good times like a digital photo frame. Excellent props.

It appears that bisexual people and or characters would come across as diminished to you because you perceive that they harbor less potential to be exclusively attracted to your character, which is a projection of your identity as an individual in a fantasy universe. In real life, your individual identity as a man? You must learn to be more confident of your appeal. That may take some time, though.

To put it simply, if you got your Alistair fanboy wish you'd probably complain about HIM being the only m/m option.

I have mentioned I would still have complaints about the lack of equal representation in quantity. However, I would have no more complaints about BioWare combining racism with homophobia if it had been Alistair representing LGBT men.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:51 .

[Ub3r_]

TheDauntless wrote...

[How would they be props? I don't believe this is some anime rape game. Whatever else I may have to say about BioWare, I know they are not that.

yet you are the person who is objectifying Aistair, did you know, when you objectify something, its elevated to a level where it becomes... wait for it.... not more than AN OBJECT!

If I remember correctly, romance-viable npcs do take some courting to get things going. Once declarations were made, some relationships cooled down and some needed watering. I guess in a way they are all props. Save your special memories at the right points and relive the good times like a digital photo frame. Excellent props.

No, i stated they are CHARACTERS with thier own WANTS and DESIRES, and these DESIRES dont always match the players DESIRES, which is where you come in, by suggesting on your own DESIRES that you want all characters to be BISEXUAL, thus removing their INDEPENDANT WILL for one that is DEPENDANT on the players DESIRES - thus creating props

It appears that bisexual people and or characters would come across as diminished to you because you perceive that they harbor less potential to be exclusively attracted to your character, which is a projection of your identity as an individual in a fantasy universe. In real life, your individual identity as a man? You must learn to be more confident of your appeal. That may take some time, though.

the irony in this statement made me laugh. isnt it a projection of YOUR OWN IDENTY that make you want MORE CHOICE in available LGBT romance options in the game? In real life, you individual identity as a gay man? You must learn to be more confident of your appeal (or lack thereof to 90% of males). That make take some time, though...

To put it simply, if you got your Alistair fanboy wish you'd probably complain about HIM being the only m/m option.

I have mentioned I would still have complaints about the lack of equal representation in quantity. However, I would have no more complaints about BioWare combining racism with homophobia if it had been Alistair representing LGBT men.

there is more than equal representation in quantity, to have equal representation there would need to be 10 romance options, but only 1 of which would be gay, THAT would be EQUAL in proprtion to reality. The fact remains, gays are a minority, equal rights DOES NOT EQUATE to equal representation, it means that we recognise you as equals and accept you as we would any other person, to have every character in the game potentually gay would be a GROSS MISSREPRESENTATION of the gay community, and could be considered hetrophobic and hetrosexuals could claim they want equal rights, because there is NOT ONE hetro character

[TheDauntless]

Ub3r_ wrote...

No, i stated they are CHARACTERS with thier own WANTS and DESIRES, and these DESIRES dont always match the players DESIRES, which is where you come in, by suggesting on your own DESIRES that you want all characters to be BISEXUAL, thus removing their INDEPENDANT WILL for one that is DEPENDANT on the players DESIRES - thus creating props

Actually, what I recalled was your description of props. The pawns in this debate? I didn't know it till then but you and I were both talking about ways in which video game characters are malleable representations of real people.

the irony in this statement made me laugh. isnt it a projection of YOUR OWN IDENTY that make you want MORE CHOICE in available LGBT romance options in the game? In real life, you individual identity as a gay man? You must learn to be more confident of your appeal (or lack thereof to 90% of males). That make take some time, though...

It looks like you have me mixed up with someone who guards his personal relationship with a video game character very, very, very jealously. I wouldn't treat a prop or a pawn like that. It's tempting, but I couldn't.

there is more than equal representation in quantity, to have equal representation there would need to be 10 romance options, but only 1 of which would be gay, THAT would be EQUAL in proprtion to reality. The fact remains, gays are a minority, equal rights DOES NOT EQUATE to equal representation, it means that we recognise you as equals and accept you as we would any other person, to have every character in the game potentually gay would be a GROSS MISSREPRESENTATION of the gay community, and could be considered hetrophobic and hetrosexuals could claim they want equal rights, because there is NOT ONE hetro character

Alas, there would not be one gay character either. And that is so different from the present situation. Oh, it's not. Rather, all the relationships would be appealing to everyone if that were to be. But not to you, because for you there can be no room for gays but there must be room for straights even when the truth is there would be room for everyone.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 31 octobre 2009 - 02:46 .

[Mjodr]

TheDauntless wrote...

I have mentioned I would still have complaints about the lack of equal representation in quantity. However, I would have no more complaints about BioWare combining racism with homophobia if it had been Alistair representing LGBT men.

TheDauntless, I would actually see your point, if you didn't use propagandic terms.

Homophobia and racist are two terms which are both grossly overused, and not even used correctly when they are used.

You can dislike homosexuality without being afraid of it, which is what homophobia means. And, as there are homosexual characters in the game, that shows there is no discrimination.

As for racist, as well as homophobia, they are terms too often used either to shock or shame someone into doing what you want. Its kind of like what happens when you disagree with our president. His supporters call you a racist. Or what happens when a gay man hits on you, and when you reject him, he calls you a homophobe.

[mrmoneda]

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

[DaySeeker]

Yawn.



Dauntless isn't changing his mind and isn't changing anyone else's.



Physically, I'd be most for Sten, but I know very little about any of the characters and I'm happy there will be a gay male romance option. Can we be done with this? Or at least save it until we've encountered it in game, then it could be an interesting dialogue, but none of this has been particularly insightful or enlightening. I held back commenting, but I'm gay too and (probably stupidly) feel responsible for the opinions of others on my team. I'd love a character that was only gay and fit my own view of attractive and interesting, but I don't feel the need to make it about writer's choices and Bioware. And I will explore all the romance options and every side quest with different characters to experience each drop of narrative. The focus of the game is not romance and especially not gay romance, if that's what you're looking for it won't be in DA.

[Red Viking]

mrmoneda wrote...

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

Honestly, I wouldn't waste anymore of your time.  He's obviously under the opinion that he's right because, in his mind, he's being completely reasonable and doesn't realize he's giving the LGBT community a bad name.

If 14 pages hasn't changed his mind, then nothing will.

[aragfore03]

Let's please stop feeding the troll. We're not getting anywhere. I still find it fascinating for someone who is not buying this game in protest to spend so much time on the game's forums.



Again, let's stop the feeding of this troll no matter how tempting it is to respond.

[DaySeeker]

Mjodr wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

I have mentioned I would still have complaints about the lack of equal representation in quantity. However, I would have no more complaints about BioWare combining racism with homophobia if it had been Alistair representing LGBT men.

TheDauntless, I would actually see your point, if you didn't use propagandic terms.

Homophobia and racist are two terms which are both grossly overused, and not even used correctly when they are used.

You can dislike homosexuality without being afraid of it, which is what homophobia means. And, as there are homosexual characters in the game, that shows there is no discrimination.

As for racist, as well as homophobia, they are terms too often used either to shock or shame someone into doing what you want. Its kind of like what happens when you disagree with our president. His supporters call you a racist. Or what happens when a gay man hits on you, and when you reject him, he calls you a homophobe.

Uh.  I think homophobia is a little more complex then one dude hitting on another and not likeing homosexuals BECAUSE they are homosexuals is homophobia.  You can not like Bob who is homosexual because he's a jerk, that is not homophobia, but saying, "Bob's gay; I don't like him"= homophobia.

Unfortunately, in every gay topic I've seen listed in these forums there are always guys who say, "I'm not homophobic, but if one of these animated characters on the computer hits on me I would have to kill him," "Or I don't mind gays as long as I don't have to see them, they do nothing to let me know they're gay, and they don't look at me."  Homophobic.  I have noticed many people will preface by stating they are not racist or not homophobic and then move straight into racism and homophobia.  So, it seems more likely to me that people know the terms are negative and do not want themselves associated with them, even while spewing prejudicial comments.

Now if someone's a jerk- they're a jerk, and some will blame the fact they are not liked or respected on their minority status so they don't have to look at their own behavior, and some have had to deal with prejudice everyday and therefore are more sensitive, so I partially agree with you, but unfortunately both still exist and people have the right and duty to call it out when they see it.

Modifié par DaySeeker, 31 octobre 2009 - 03:17 .

[elemental150]

Red Viking wrote...

mrmoneda wrote...

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

Honestly, I wouldn't waste anymore of your time.  He's obviously under the opinion that he's right because, in his mind, he's being completely reasonable and doesn't realize he's giving the LGBT community a bad name.

If 14 pages hasn't changed his mind, then nothing will.

I wouldn't say he is giving us a bad name....even if I disagree with him......I still think he has the right to think what he wants, just as you all have the right to disagree.....one thing  I have noticed is that even though TheDauntless has an unpopular opinion (remember I said I disagree with his opinion) he has stayed civil and firm on his belief,  he stands firm and yet offends no one directly......Many other posters have called him names, put him down, stated that he is a waste of time....have in general gotten pretty personal.....not so much in a defense of an oppossing opinion but in an attack against him (and not his opinion)

As far as giving the LGBT community a bad name I feel sorry for anyone actually feels this way.  His opinions are his own just as your opinions are yours.   Don't push his beliefs off on to me or anyone else that happens to be gay......

if the sitautation was reverse and there was only one character to which you could have a heterosexual realtionship and they were bisexual at that...the situation would be pretty similar except many of you people would be complaining instead of one lone man, so don't get it twisted...he has the right to his opinion even if it isn't popular and I would appreciate if the discussion stayed civil

[Saurel]

mrmoneda wrote...

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

Acid the drug or the corrosive kind?

[Mjodr]

DaySeeker wrote...

Uh.  I think homophobia is a little more complex then one dude hitting on another and not likeing homosexuals BECAUSE they are homosexuals is homophobia.  You can not like Bob who is homosexual because he's a jerk, that is not homophobia, but saying, "Bob's gay; I don't like him"= homophobia.

I agree that it is. The problem is the term is overused and incorrectly used, which was my point.

Now if someone's a jerk- they're a jerk, and some will blame the fact they are not liked or respected on their minority status so they don't have to look at their own behavior, and some have had to deal with prejudice everyday and therefore are more sensitive, so I partially agree with you, but unfortunately both still exist and people have the right and duty to call it out when they see it.

I have no problem with terms being used correctly. My issue is when people use them solely to get what they want, nevermind what anyone else wants.

[TheDauntless]

elemental150 wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

mrmoneda wrote...

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

Honestly, I wouldn't waste anymore of your time.  He's obviously under the opinion that he's right because, in his mind, he's being completely reasonable and doesn't realize he's giving the LGBT community a bad name.

If 14 pages hasn't changed his mind, then nothing will.

I wouldn't say he is giving us a bad name....even if I disagree with him......I still think he has the right to think what he wants, just as you all have the right to disagree.....one thing  I have noticed is that even though TheDauntless has an unpopular opinion (remember I said I disagree with his opinion) he has stayed civil and firm on his belief,  he stands firm and yet offends no one directly......Many other posters have called him names, put him down, stated that he is a waste of time....have in general gotten pretty personal.....not so much in a defense of an oppossing opinion but in an attack against him (and not his opinion)

As far as giving the LGBT community a bad name I feel sorry for anyone actually feels this way.  His opinions are his own just as your opinions are yours.   Don't push his beliefs off on to me or anyone else that happens to be gay......

if the sitautation was reverse and there was only one character to which you could have a heterosexual realtionship and they were bisexual at that...the situation would be pretty similar except many of you people would be complaining instead of one lone man, so don't get it twisted...he has the right to his opinion even if it isn't popular and I would appreciate if the discussion stayed civil

I am trying my best to stick to my "talking points." 

[Saurel]

Can you just write a blog about all this Dauntless and problems you see in other games(also)? You seem motivated enough and you might gain a fanbase and something positive out of it...

maybe?







I'll go play in the other thread now...

Modifié par Saurel, 31 octobre 2009 - 04:15 .

[Red Viking]

elemental150 wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

mrmoneda wrote...

TheDauntless is one of the greatest trolls I've ever encountered. I will need much more acid to deal with this menace.

Honestly, I wouldn't waste anymore of your time.  He's obviously under the opinion that he's right because, in his mind, he's being completely reasonable and doesn't realize he's giving the LGBT community a bad name.

If 14 pages hasn't changed his mind, then nothing will.

I wouldn't say he is giving us a bad name....even if I disagree with him......I still think he has the right to think what he wants, just as you all have the right to disagree.....one thing  I have noticed is that even though TheDauntless has an unpopular opinion (remember I said I disagree with his opinion) he has stayed civil and firm on his belief,  he stands firm and yet offends no one directly......Many other posters have called him names, put him down, stated that he is a waste of time....have in general gotten pretty personal.....not so much in a defense of an oppossing opinion but in an attack against him (and not his opinion)

As far as giving the LGBT community a bad name I feel sorry for anyone actually feels this way.  His opinions are his own just as your opinions are yours.   Don't push his beliefs off on to me or anyone else that happens to be gay......

if the sitautation was reverse and there was only one character to which you could have a heterosexual realtionship and they were bisexual at that...the situation would be pretty similar except many of you people would be complaining instead of one lone man, so don't get it twisted...he has the right to his opinion even if it isn't popular and I would appreciate if the discussion stayed civil

I can respect what you're saying, elemental and I'll admit that I can take things personally at times.

What Dauntless is doing, however, is basically insinuating the presence of homophobia just because there is no gay option for his perfered party member.  He has even stated things that, in my opinion, is insulting to bisexuals.  That is not civil behavior by any means, and a person can still be rude while remaining under the guise of civility.

You tell me not to push his believes onto you or any other homosexual person, and I wll tell you that other homosexuals in this thread have said that Dauntless does not represent thier viewpoint.  Why do you think they feel the need to say that?  I have told him twice that he does not represent the LGBT community because of it.

[Quesandras]

sometimes sterotypes are right. sometimes there not. its right in this case. isnt there more companions that we could have somewhere? that we might have killed off once or something? so you might still get what you want depending on how you play through.

[Autumn Bard]

elemental150 wrote...
I wouldn't say he is giving us a bad name....even if I disagree with him......I still think he has the right to think what he wants, just as you all have the right to disagree.....one thing  I have noticed is that even though TheDauntless has an unpopular opinion (remember I said I disagree with his opinion) he has stayed civil and firm on his belief,  he stands firm and yet offends no one directly......Many other posters have called him names, put him down, stated that he is a waste of time....have in general gotten pretty personal.....not so much in a defense of an oppossing opinion but in an attack against him (and not his opinion)

As far as giving the LGBT community a bad name I feel sorry for anyone actually feels this way.  His opinions are his own just as your opinions are yours.   Don't push his beliefs off on to me or anyone else that happens to be gay......

if the sitautation was reverse and there was only one character to which you could have a heterosexual realtionship and they were bisexual at that...the situation would be pretty similar except many of you people would be complaining instead of one lone man, so don't get it twisted...he has the right to his opinion even if it isn't popular and I would appreciate if the discussion stayed civil

Quoted for Truth and I give you a very sleepy (because I am tired) salute for your integrity. *salute* And my thanks too, elemental150. :happy: