478 réponses à ce sujet

[Ub3r_]

[Tragick Flaw]

I think the argument is over now.

[Drasanil]

TheDauntless wrote...
Actually you have a point. They wouldn't be pleased to have to wait longer than 60 hours to get to the goods but they would have the girls of Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball bouncing on the tv in the periphery to keep themselves calm.

If it helps you sleep at night... sure why not? You're right, I totally would have spend my time watching pr0n out the corner of my eye in order to cope with the fact a female NPC might be slightly harder to romance with a male PC, were the situations reversed. Heck if it happened, I'd probably write to my local MP too and complain that Bioware discriminated against me, maybe you should do that, it might garner better results than keeping this thread alive... just a thought.  



PS: To the good lady who asked, lesbian sex is always hot... well except if the girls involved are, you know, not hot.

[KmAI]

Your views on heterosexual males are the most biggoted, depressingly narrow scoped, perverse and simply put : stupid things I have ever seen. If all you see is some goonish caricature of some rapefaced neanderthal hunched over in dire masturbatory fury. Their tissue pasted hands slapping at the controller to pass through dialogue in the most expident manner to recieve pixelated boob. Why would games even attempt the subtext of a romance? Why is it that games like dead or alive beach volley ball and rumble roses tank? How is it that there is all of this is to pander to the straight audience when all they would need would be a "sex" button? You would think the games that include romance would be targeted to "niche" (and I don't seriously consider them niche) audiences like women and the LBGT community and therefor have no consideration for these horrible sex drunk pricks? 

Keeping in mind for lack of a quote, I mean the OP

Modifié par KmAI, 01 novembre 2009 - 04:38 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

KmAI wrote...

Your views on heterosexual males are the most biggoted, depressingly narrow scoped, perverse and simply put : stupid things I have ever seen. If all you see is some goonish caricature of some rapefaced neanderthal hunched over in dire masturbatory fury. Their tissue pasted hands slapping at the controller to pass through dialogue in the most expident manner to recieve pixelated boob. Why would games even attempt the subtext of a romance? Why is it that games like dead or alive beach volley ball and rumble roses tank? How is it that there is all of this is to pander to the straight audience when all they would need would be a "sex" button? You would think the games that include romance would be targeted to "niche" (and I don't seriously consider them niche) audiences like women and the LBGT community and therefor have no consideration for these horrible sex drunk pricks? 

Keeping in mind for lack of a quote, I mean the OP

Agreed 100%, and its all the more humorous that the exact thing Dauntless is complaining about, is what he actually is. Go fig.

[Maria Caliban]

Straight dudes do kinda suck.

[Hex of Hell]

KmAI wrote...

Your views on heterosexual males are the most biggoted, depressingly narrow scoped, perverse and simply put : stupid things I have ever seen. If all you see is some goonish caricature of some rapefaced neanderthal hunched over in dire masturbatory fury. Their tissue pasted hands slapping at the controller to pass through dialogue in the most expident manner to recieve pixelated boob. Why would games even attempt the subtext of a romance? Why is it that games like dead or alive beach volley ball and rumble roses tank? How is it that there is all of this is to pander to the straight audience when all they would need would be a "sex" button? You would think the games that include romance would be targeted to "niche" (and I don't seriously consider them niche) audiences like women and the LBGT community and therefor have no consideration for these horrible sex drunk pricks? 

I agree with every word you just said. You are my Hero... marry me?

[TheDauntless]

KmAI wrote...

Your views on heterosexual males are the most biggoted, depressingly narrow scoped, perverse and simply put : stupid things I have ever seen. If all you see is some goonish caricature of some rapefaced neanderthal hunched over in dire masturbatory fury. Their tissue pasted hands slapping at the controller to pass through dialogue in the most expident manner to recieve pixelated boob. Why would games even attempt the subtext of a romance? Why is it that games like dead or alive beach volley ball and rumble roses tank? How is it that there is all of this is to pander to the straight audience when all they would need would be a "sex" button? You would think the games that include romance would be targeted to "niche" (and I don't seriously consider them niche) audiences like women and the LBGT community and therefor have no consideration for these horrible sex drunk pricks? 

Keeping in mind for lack of a quote, I mean the OP

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball yet BioWare opted to release that exploitation to promote DA. Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 01 novembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[KmAI]

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball than the exploitation which BioWare opted to release for DA. Maybe even a lot less.

Cause you know.. Nothing says volleyball like giant spiders to an angry "heterophobic" male.


And of course any sex is naturally an indicator of girls gone wild ****tery! We must all dress like nuns to please the mighty dauntless. As sex with context is just as bad as pornography! For shame on you!

Seriously, you're being mighty selective of what you pay attention to. Even the video labeled "Sex and Violence" literally has (count it) 6 seconds of partial nudity. In which (as you so furiously attend to) there is equal representation of man and woman chest.

[Leo]

TheDauntless wrote...
 Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

The trailers are a nothing like DOA: Xtreme Beach Volleyball, since there are no  barely there Bikini's, no focus on the individual boobie pshyics , no underage ninjas, and no lesbian undertones. 

[Hex of Hell]

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball yet BioWare opted to release that exploitation to promote DA. Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

Exactly how is this - - at all like beach volleyball?
Perhaps you are confusing it with this - - due to the epic bouncing tattas?
Simply because all you choose to notice and recall of the richly detailed videos involving Leilana and Morrigan are the few seconds of sex, is not indicative that is all they entailed. It is more likely indicative that you simply have sex on the brain.
Furthermore, there is a huge difference between a woman who has chosen freely to engage in consensual and meaningful sexual activity with a person they have come to know, than a personality free pair of boobs that is programmed to bounce for your amusement.

[TheDauntless]

KmAI wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball than the exploitation which BioWare opted to release for DA. Maybe even a lot less.

Cause you know.. Nothing says volleyball like giant spiders to an angry "heterophobic" male.


And of course any sex is naturally an indicator of girls gone wild ****tery! We must all dress like nuns to please the mighty dauntless. As sex with context is just as bad as pornography! For shame on you!

Seriously, you're being mighty selective of what you pay attention to. Even the video labeled "Sex and Violence" literally has (count it) 6 seconds of partial nudity. In which (as you so furiously attend to) there is equal representation of man and woman chest.

Where is this equal-opportunity exploitation video of which you speak? If there ever was one, that title is not found among the videos on the game's website. I was scrolling through the gallery area.

[Ub3r_]

dude, just stop, seriously you have proven you are a bigger troll than the one that challeneged the three billy goats gruff

[KmAI]

Youtube.

Its the trailer labeled "Sex and violence" Its a 1:36 trailer in which 6 of it includes the male protaganist and morrigan in equal levels of undress if not with the male in more of an undress to the western standards (In Ontario it is perfectly lawful for both male or female to be topless) the male is topless morrigan still is covered. Also, your idea of exploitation is rather.. gaping at best. Dr. Funkenstein & Blackula vs.Creature From White Lagoon is exploitation. Dragon age is not.

Modifié par KmAI, 01 novembre 2009 - 06:04 .

[TheDauntless]

Captain Hex wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball yet BioWare opted to release that exploitation to promote DA. Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

Exactly how is this - - at all like beach volleyball?
Perhaps you are confusing it with this - - due to the epic bouncing tattas?
Simply because all you choose to notice and recall of the richly detailed videos involving Leilana and Morrigan are the few seconds of sex, is not indicative that is all they entailed. It is more likely indicative that you simply have sex on the brain.
Furthermore, there is a huge difference between a woman who has chosen freely to engage in consensual and meaningful sexual activity with a person they have come to know, than a personality free pair of boobs that is programmed to bounce for your amusement.

It is quite mandatory to depict the young females as sexually engaging in promos if there is even a hint that game content will back up the claim that the boys can manipulate the pixels into performing, albeit never quite to the extent of their imaginations. In Leliana and Morrigan's respective trailers BioWare's efforts array themselves around the need to exploit the girls' sexuality.

Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience. BioWare's habits past and present, I'm afraid, are precisely in alignment with the female exploitation in such examples as Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

TheDauntless wrote...

Captain Hex wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball yet BioWare opted to release that exploitation to promote DA. Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

Exactly how is this - - at all like beach volleyball?
Perhaps you are confusing it with this - - due to the epic bouncing tattas?
Simply because all you choose to notice and recall of the richly detailed videos involving Leilana and Morrigan are the few seconds of sex, is not indicative that is all they entailed. It is more likely indicative that you simply have sex on the brain.
Furthermore, there is a huge difference between a woman who has chosen freely to engage in consensual and meaningful sexual activity with a person they have come to know, than a personality free pair of boobs that is programmed to bounce for your amusement.

It is quite mandatory to depict the young females as sexually engaging in promos if there is even a hint that game content will back up the claim that the boys can manipulate the pixels into performing, albeit never quite to the extent of their imaginations. In Leliana and Morrigan's respective trailers BioWare's efforts array themselves around the need to exploit the girls' sexuality.

Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience. BioWare's habits past and present, I'm afraid, are precisely in alignment with the female exploitation in such examples as Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

You sir, are certifiable bat**** insane. Just saying.

[Ub3r_]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

Captain Hex wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

If the lowest common-denominator of straight male gamers were not the market which BioWare panders to just like many if not all video game companies that service the boys from ages 8 to 89 first before all others, then the trailers for Morrigan and Leliana...oh...they may have ended up less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball yet BioWare opted to release that exploitation to promote DA. Trailers maybe could have been a lot less like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

Exactly how is this - - at all like beach volleyball?
Perhaps you are confusing it with this - - due to the epic bouncing tattas?
Simply because all you choose to notice and recall of the richly detailed videos involving Leilana and Morrigan are the few seconds of sex, is not indicative that is all they entailed. It is more likely indicative that you simply have sex on the brain.
Furthermore, there is a huge difference between a woman who has chosen freely to engage in consensual and meaningful sexual activity with a person they have come to know, than a personality free pair of boobs that is programmed to bounce for your amusement.

It is quite mandatory to depict the young females as sexually engaging in promos if there is even a hint that game content will back up the claim that the boys can manipulate the pixels into performing, albeit never quite to the extent of their imaginations. In Leliana and Morrigan's respective trailers BioWare's efforts array themselves around the need to exploit the girls' sexuality.

Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience. BioWare's habits past and present, I'm afraid, are precisely in alignment with the female exploitation in such examples as Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

You sir, are certifiable bat**** insane. Just saying.

+1

[Hex of Hell]

TheDauntless wrote...

It is quite mandatory to depict the young females as sexually engaging in promos if there is even a hint that game content will back up the claim that the boys can manipulate the pixels into performing, albeit never quite to the extent of their imaginations. In Leliana and Morrigan's respective trailers BioWare's efforts array themselves around the need to exploit the girls' sexuality.

Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience. BioWare's habits past and present, I'm afraid, are precisely in alignment with the female exploitation in such examples as Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

The women are portrayed as strong women, and their respective trailers are "arrayed" around the need to express that.  standing their ground, fighting darkspawn, and yes, enjoying a fulfilling sex life. It's interesting how for a woman to be involved in any sort of sexual behaviour it is imagined that it must be not for her own benefit, but for a man's. It couldn't be because women are human beings who like sex and therefore sex is a part of who they are as people. No, a real woman would have no interest in such things, and their inclusion must say nothing about who they are as characters but only be of interest to the males watching.
Simply because a woman is engaged in sexual activity does not automatically equate to sexual exploitation. That is an outright sexist position, and a purely ridiculous one at that.  Again, there is a huge difference between being sexual and being objectified. If there isn't one for you, that says more about you than about any video game.

[TheDauntless]

KmAI wrote...

Youtube.

Its the trailer labeled "Sex and violence" Its a 1:36 trailer in which 6 of it includes the male protaganist and morrigan in equal levels of undress if not with the male in more of an undress to the western standards (In Ontario it is perfectly lawful for both male or female to be topless) the male is topless morrigan still is covered. Also, your idea of exploitation is rather.. gaping at best. Dr. Funkenstein & Blackula vs.Creature From White Lagoon is exploitation. Dragon age is not.

That title is rather misleading...6 seconds out of 1:36, but I suppose it delivered some of what it promised.

In the seconds which they were depicted, Morrigan was clearly the focus of the trailer and the PC was more of the prop. She takes over the role of the narrator, she is in the foreground, and she is down to her 2-piece. He is a mute(albeit a slampiece by any definition) who is semi-present to reassure males of her willingness. Even I as a gay man can see that she is depicted as the focus and the male is the prop. Your suggestion that the male's presence is exploitation would hold water were he depicted in a manner similar to the way Morrigan was shown. Rather he is not, nor would that ever occur because BioWare like much of the industry dares not stray far from the creature habits of the lowest-brow of male straight gamers.

The fact that some people are unwilling to comprehend the idea that female exploitation is commonly used to sell is not because they do not understand it, but because they refuse to see it categorized as such. It's "normal," even "expected." I can definitely agree that it's expected.

[allothernamesweretaken]

TheDauntless wrote...

I have to say I'm disappointed that once again the same-sex option in a BioWare game is just a token offering. He is the stereotypical fall guy for this. Just like his predecessors in KOTOR, JE, and ME he is convenient for the budget and outnumbered in the game. Bravo. I'm not one to waste my money on crumbs.

But I'm grateful that BioWare released this thing for reviews ahead of time. I had hopes that if Alistair were open it would be a friendly inclusion and a respectful gesture to the intelligence of BioWare players. That didn't happen and the disappointment that I feel was shared in an earlier thread, mostly by straight posters. Surprise? Going slightly off-topic here, but I'm not pleased about the love-triangle soap operas either.

Making the gay/bi character out to be an afterthought is wrong. Better to not have one at all than to insult us. Making him the alien yet again, and easily interchangeable is very cheap and it doesn't seem to be fooling anybody. I don't know who the female counterpart is/are if any, but in this area DA already failed hard.

I was willing to forgive the visuals that no art team seemed willing to touch as well as the gore, since I'm still a fan of great storytelling. But that can only go so far when I feel left out repeatedly. I think this was never my kind of game to look forward to. The spoilers in the reviews make it clear there won't be the one aspect that kept me interested in this until now.

I still look forward to ME2 and ME3. I am more of a space opera lover. And at least there I'll be going in without high hopes of being included. As for this, I suggest if you keep doing it wrong then find somebody who is willing to do it right.

Yeah, man, look at all the other non-Bioware RPG's with gay romances. There's...
Um...

Well, still, they're totally not putting themselves out on a limb when they even think about doing this, and you're not looking for a reason to play the discrimination card at all.

[Drasanil]

TheDauntless wrote...
Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience.

Hypocrisy have you heard of it? The entire point of your personal little Alistair crusade is little more than an attempt to get Bioware to pander to the lowbrow gay male audience. I don't know what's worse, that you actually seem to believe that this is some form social justice crusade, or that you fail to realise you're no different than the people you rant against. 

[TheDauntless]

Captain Hex wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

It is quite mandatory to depict the young females as sexually engaging in promos if there is even a hint that game content will back up the claim that the boys can manipulate the pixels into performing, albeit never quite to the extent of their imaginations. In Leliana and Morrigan's respective trailers BioWare's efforts array themselves around the need to exploit the girls' sexuality.

Try as I might I cannot recall this same courtesy being extended to Alistair or Zevran. It is unfortunate but BioWare is no different than any other pandering game company out there. Lesser, when compared against certain few. Their girls must be made to appease the lowbrow of the straight male gaming audience, first and foremost. Their guys must not be allowed to disturb the fragile masculinity of the lowbrow segment of the straight male gaming audience. BioWare's habits past and present, I'm afraid, are precisely in alignment with the female exploitation in such examples as Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.

The women are portrayed as strong women, and their respective trailers are "arrayed" around the need to express that.  standing their ground, fighting darkspawn, and yes, enjoying a fulfilling sex life. It's interesting how for a woman to be involved in any sort of sexual behaviour it is imagined that it must be not for her own benefit, but for a man's. It couldn't be because women are human beings who like sex and therefore sex is a part of who they are as people. No, a real woman would have no interest in such things, and their inclusion must say nothing about who they are as characters but only be of interest to the males watching.
Simply because a woman is engaged in sexual activity does not automatically equate to sexual exploitation. That is an outright sexist position, and a purely ridiculous one at that.  Again, there is a huge difference between being sexual and being objectified. If there isn't one for you, that says more about you than about any video game.

Your argument would be true if the male characters were allowed to be cast in the same light as the females are. That being: sexually-active and willing, combat-ready, and better off for all those reasons combined. Why yes, depictions of a woman's physicality both in combat and in ecstasy should be a testament to her good character. Yet depicting a man's sexuality in the same light alongside his battle prowess is deemed to be going too far, straying into the comfort zone of the insecure among straight male audiences. Therefore it is unfortunate but the truth is the use of female sexuality in promoting a product while excluding the males' is not for the sake of the women's heroism, it is for the sake of exploiting their pixels for the enjoyment of their target audience.

Please, do present us with an answer as to why no male characters are allowed to be exploited the way the female characters are.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 01 novembre 2009 - 06:35 .

[KmAI]

TheDauntless wrote...
Your argument would be true if the male characters were allowed to be cast in the same light as the females are. That being: sexually-active and willing, combat-ready, and better off for all those reasons combined. Why yes, depictions of a woman's physicality both in combat and in ecstasy should be a testament to her good character. Yet depicting a man's sexuality in the same light alongside his battle prowess is going too far, straying into the comfort zone of the insecure among straight male audiences. Therefore it is unfortunate but the truth is the inclusion of female sexuality in promoting a product while excluding the males' is not for the sake of the women's heroism, it is for the sake of exploiting their pixels for the enjoyment of their target audience.

Please, do present us with an answer as to why no male characters are allowed to be exploited the way the female characters are.

So you're ****ing about zevran without even watching his trailer?

Ah yes.. male sexuality and combat prowess is definately avoided..



Literally the same length of exposure too.. 6 seconds.

If this is some sort of exploitation for wanking you have sad standards of the average male stamina. The lamentations of your boyfriends echo in my ears.

Modifié par KmAI, 01 novembre 2009 - 06:38 .

[Hex of Hell]

TheDauntless wrote...
Please, do present us with an answer as to why no male characters are allowed to be exploited the way the female characters are.

For someone who seems to hate Zevran so much, you could have at least done yourself the courtesy of watching his reveal trailer. Here's the link. -
It's literally the exact same amount and degree of sexual content that was to be found in the trailers for the females. It describes a portion of their history, displays their finesse in combat, and then shows them topless in a romantic situation. The male characters are shown in the exact same way as the females in these videos. You would know that had you ever watched them.

[TheDauntless]

KmAI wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...
Your argument would be true if the male characters were allowed to be cast in the same light as the females are. That being: sexually-active and willing, combat-ready, and better off for all those reasons combined. Why yes, depictions of a woman's physicality both in combat and in ecstasy should be a testament to her good character. Yet depicting a man's sexuality in the same light alongside his battle prowess is going too far, straying into the comfort zone of the insecure among straight male audiences. Therefore it is unfortunate but the truth is the inclusion of female sexuality in promoting a product while excluding the males' is not for the sake of the women's heroism, it is for the sake of exploiting their pixels for the enjoyment of their target audience.

Please, do present us with an answer as to why no male characters are allowed to be exploited the way the female characters are.

So you're ****ing about zevran without even watching his trailer?

Ah yes.. male sexuality and combat prowess is definately avoided..



Literally the same length of exposure too.. 6 seconds.

If this is some sort of exploitation for wanking you have sad standards of the average male stamina. The lamentations of your boyfriends echo in my ears.

My statements have been regarding exploitation of sexuality alone. The exploitation is done willfully and often to females, yet the practice does not extend to the males.

Just as with Morrigan's depiction, Leliana is depicted as extremely inviting to her resident male Grey Warden. There is full body-contact for both women and the message is that both of them intend to get busy with the male. Her lines to a straight male PC are uttered porn-pitch-perfect.

Zevran's depiction is chaste in comparison. They certainly look like they're having a tender moment while drying their clothes, minus any views of his skivvy-clad body in profile unlike Morrigan and Leliana. He lacks full body-contact and his movements and expression remind me of the concern a first-day medic might show for a dazed victim. I'm not sure how to categorize the type of person who would think that his line is meant to be an invitation of any kind. I see why some people may choose to deem this depiction as exploitation though. Those who are unaccustomed to witnessing male sexuality(albeit human and not elf) would take exception even to this confusing portrayal. I found it very confusing myself, though likely for different reasons.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 01 novembre 2009 - 07:07 .