478 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

jegillan wrote...

I'm glad there is a M/M romance in Dragon Age. I will not make use of it, but I'm sure others will. What I find irritating is that they are actually trying to reach out to a small population of gamers, and yet it still isn't good enough. And if the only reason you wanted to play Dragon Age was for the gay sex, you're probably better off passing anyway.

Seriously. I can count on one hand the number of games with same-sex romances, and three of them are from BioWare. Yet apparently BioWare has no respect for the queer fans. Mind-boggling.

TheDauntless wrote...
BioWare bowed to the notion that the majority of gamers who are not gay would end up resisting the idea that a gay/bi male can't resemble somebody like Alistair. A human, athletic, masculine, white male.

As opposed to an elven, athletic, masculine, white male.

This boils down to 'all elves are girls.'

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:01 .

[Maufurtado]

Maria Caliban wrote...

jegillan wrote...

I'm glad there is a M/M romance in Dragon Age. I will not make use of it, but I'm sure others will. What I find irritating is that they are actually trying to reach out to a small population of gamers, and yet it still isn't good enough. And if the only reason you wanted to play Dragon Age was for the gay sex, you're probably better off passing anyway.

Seriously. I can count on one hand the number of games with same-sex romances, and three of them are from BioWare. Yet apparently BioWare has no respect for the queer fans. Mind-boggling.

Can I say it I'm your fan? :happy:

[Arconi4n03]

imported_beer wrote...

Arconi4n03 wrote...

imported_beer wrote...
 And that magic bosom .

What is this about a magic bosom, I am both intruiged and aprehensive...Does it shoot lazers?

You don't know about the Magic bosom!!??!!!! I have good reason to believe it is the most amazing thing in the game.

Not flashy, just incredible reassuring...y'know? Something to lift the heart...

So you are saying that the magic bosom has restorative qualities? I have got to find out more about this

[Gaviteros]

imported_beer wrote...

Arconi4n03 wrote...


So you are saying that the magic bosom has restorative qualities? I have got to find out more about this

It does not have any properties that can directly benefit the PC or impact the storyline or combat in any way. 

It should though.
. 

Pics or didn't happen.
EDIT:
Found my own:

I see what you mean. Very calming.

Modifié par Gaviteros, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:15 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ub3r_ wrote...

why do homosexuals ALWAYS have to play victimized all the time, its frustrating, it causes misrepresentation and its always always the same whine. Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against anyone based on their sexual preference, what annoys me is when people scream so loud about what they are. Be thankful they even included an option, I'm sure you probably would have complained had there been no m/m relationships in the game, and I'm sure you would complain if you could have them with EVERY character. If sexual preference is such an issue for you, it think you should sort that out in your own space, and not criticize others because they ACTUALLY included you

why do straights ALWAYS have to play victimized all the time?

'Oh no!, there's a single thread complaining about same-sex romances on a forum that has had thousands of threads complaining about straight romances, party size, bowstrings, spears, inventory, the free talents, Morrigan's lips, Morrigans clothing, Morrigans bust size, and  bunch of other crap! But every other complaint is deep and meaningful, and every other accusation that BioWare is screwing with group X is accurate, only *this subject* by *this group* is the product of victimization and unnessary whining.'

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Ah, I would have known it wasn't Gaider if my reading comprehension/recollection didn't suck. He says he's a gay man... and I don't think Gaider is.

David Gaider exists beyong any concept of sexuality that you or I or anyone but lucy might be able to understand.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:19 .

[Gaviteros]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ub3r_ wrote...

why do homosexuals ALWAYS have to play victimized all the time, its frustrating, it causes misrepresentation and its always always the same whine. Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against anyone based on their sexual preference, what annoys me is when people scream so loud about what they are. Be thankful they even included an option, I'm sure you probably would have complained had there been no m/m relationships in the game, and I'm sure you would complain if you could have them with EVERY character. If sexual preference is such an issue for you, it think you should sort that out in your own space, and not criticize others because they ACTUALLY included you

why do straights ALWAYS have to play victimized all the time?

'Oh no!, there's a single thread complaining about same-sex romances on a forum that has had thousands of threads complaining about straight romances, party size, bowstrings, spears, inventory, the free talents, Morrigan's lips, Morrigans clothing, Morrigans bust size, and  bunch of other crap! But every other complaint is deep and meaningful, and every other accusation that BioWare is screwing with group X is accurate, only *this subject* by *this group* is the product of victimization and unnessary whining.'

Although i agree with your attack, I find most complaints by most groups, on most subjects to be the product of unnecessary whining.

[Earwk]

Interesting thread. You know, I was just discussing with a co-worker why in fantasy, we have not seen any gay male dwaves. It seems that the only stereotype that is promulgated in fantasy is that gay or lesbians are always pretty or beautiful physically. Why not have a short, fat bearded gay dwarf? Or a Rock-golem that wants to rub stones with another golem? Would a gay or lesbian player appreciated a so-called 'unattractive' gay or lesbian character in a game?

[TheDauntless]

Seriously. I can count on one hand the number of games with same-sex
romances, and three of them are from BioWare. Yet apparently BioWare
has no respect for the queer fans. Mind-boggling.

Can you describe the circumstances of those outreach projects? We may learn from each other's perspectives.

I recall an alien female who had one line that many people surmised was a bug. I remember same-sex embraces fading to black while the straight kisses were given full treatment, and a bisexual princess who seemed to be a gesture to portions of the straight male gaming audience primarily, and to actual lesbian/bisexual female gamers second at best. There was also an alien "female" who seemed to be cut from the same cloth. Timeline-wise, they fit into KOTOR, JE, and ME.

As opposed to an elven, athletic, masculine, white male.

This boils down to 'all elves are girls.

In which screenshot did you discover Zevran's white heritage? I know technically Spaniards are white. But oftentimes not blonde, nor elven.

[Maria Caliban]

Gaviteros wrote...

Although i agree with your attack, I find most complaints by most groups, on most subjects to be the product of unnecessary whining.

Thank you. 90% of the complaints on this board are from straight people. 90% of the complaints about romances are from straight people. This is not because straight people are all victims any more than this thread exists because gays are all victims; it's because people love to complain on message boards.

[Lumenadducere]

Dauntless, why not wait until others you know actually play through the Zevran romance and see what it's like before jumping to conclusions? Because honestly that's all you're really doing right now. As Maria said, it does seem like you're boiling it down to "all elves are effeminate, therefore Zevran being gay was safer than Alistair."



At least after hearing about it from someone else you'll be able to point out specifics and there would be room for an actual discussion. As it stands you're just making assumptions, and since nobody has played the game yet no one is going to be able to make a case for it either way. If you don't want to do that and you'd rather just continue the pointless arguing and boycott the game, then that's fine by me. But if you do actually care about the point you're trying to make it may serve you better to come back to it later.

[Herr Uhl]

TheDauntless wrote...

As opposed to an elven, athletic, masculine, white male.

This boils down to 'all elves are girls.

In which screenshot did you discover Zevran's white heritage? I know technically Spaniards are white. But oftentimes not blonde, nor elven.

No, per definition, no Spaniards are elves since they don't exist. So, you would like a black/brownhaired Spaniard elf? And the fact that he is blonde is not against the assumption that he is white in any way.

[Maria Caliban]

TheDauntless wrote...

As opposed to an elven, athletic, masculine, white male.

This boils down to 'all elves are girls.

In which screenshot did you discover Zevran's white heritage? I know technically Spaniards are white. But oftentimes not blonde, nor elven.

Fine, you tell me how Alistair is white, and I’ll tell you how Zevran is white. Is it the skin tone? They both fall within real world ‘white.’ Is it accent? As you said, a Spanish person can be just as white as an English one, and blond hair suggests whitness in the real world.

Your argument seems to be ‘non-humans can’t be white,’ which seems to clash with a great deal of science fiction and fantasy. One wonders why they’ve never considered any black men for the role of Superman or Legolas.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:30 .

[scootermcgaffin]

Seriously, if someone could just explain where this "Zevran is feminine" stuff is coming from without using the word 'elf' I would be incredibly grateful. He seems flamboyant, sure, but not feminine.



Be upset because the gay romance is a 'wham-bam-thank-you-man' affair instead of an actual relationship, or because writing the gay romance as that, for a character perfectly suited to that just furthers the stereotype that gay men are only in it for the sex. That's valid, and I will be right there with you. Don't be upset that the M/M option is an elf. That's just dumb.

[aidron]

Lumenadducere wrote...

Dauntless, why not wait until others you know actually play through the Zevran romance and see what it's like before jumping to conclusions? Because honestly that's all you're really doing right now. As Maria said, it does seem like you're boiling it down to "all elves are effeminate, therefore Zevran being gay was safer than Alistair."

At least after hearing about it from someone else you'll be able to point out specifics and there would be room for an actual discussion. As it stands you're just making assumptions, and since nobody has played the game yet no one is going to be able to make a case for it either way. If you don't want to do that and you'd rather just continue the pointless arguing and boycott the game, then that's fine by me. But if you do actually care about the point you're trying to make it may serve you better to come back to it later.

That's what I am certainly trying to do - keep an open mind and think of how this will improve the story rather than how the story is less than I would have hoped because of Alistair, for example, being excluded as a M/M option.

The thing, I suppose, that bothers me the most is from reading the article 'Sex and the Single Dragon Age Hero'...


***POTENTIAL SPOILERS*** 











that all females seem to demand a monogamous relationship and the relationship with Zevran appears to only unfold in the manner of an open relationship. This to me feels less like our PC has an impact in the game world and more like we're simply being told a story. Admittedly, the ring handed out by Morrigan to keep track of the PC is bizarre and I'm all the more scared of her after reading that bit of bizzaro behavior.



Hopefully though our choices IG will cause the story, including romances, to unfold in different ways. Perhaps an open relationship is not the only way to romance Zevran and perhaps the females can be convinced of an open relationship in turn. I understand that NPC personalities must be preserved, but this oh-so-tiny bit  of info(which is of course is only based on one person's playthrough) does give me pause, does make me a tad concerned, and I am afraid does make the word 'cliche' spring to mind.

But I'm trying to remain hopeful.

Modifié par aidron, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:37 .

[KillTheLastRomantic]

The information released about Zevran so far does paint him as a 'token' slightly and I wouldve preferred Alistair but beggars can't be choosers, not to mention I've [obviously] not played DA yet, so I could be pleasantly surprised to see some unexpected layers to Zevran.

[aidron]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Seriously, if someone could just explain where this "Zevran is feminine" stuff is coming from without using the word 'elf' I would be incredibly grateful. He seems flamboyant, sure, but not feminine.

Be upset because the gay romance is a 'wham-bam-thank-you-man' affair instead of an actual relationship, or because writing the gay romance as that, for a character perfectly suited to that just furthers the stereotype that gay men are only in it for the sex. That's valid, and I will be right there with you. Don't be upset that the M/M option is an elf. That's just dumb.

I certainly am not. Again, I would have preferred Alistair, but Zevran seems like a remarkably intriguing character. Romances aside or not, I am very interested in learning his backstory and seeing how this casanova assassin will affect my story.

My 'concerns' (not complaints, since that would be silly given I have not played the game so far) are more about how the relationships themselves seem to unfold, as stated in my previous post.

[Maria Caliban]

aidron wrote...

***POTENTIAL SPOILERS*** 











that all females seem to demand a monogamous relationship and the relationship with Zevran appears to only unfold in the manner of an open relationship. This to me feels less like our PC has an impact in the game world and more like we're simply being told a story. Admittedly, the ring handed out by Morrigan to keep track of the PC is bizarre and I'm all the more scared of her after reading that bit of bizzaro behavior.

SPOILER

PC: It's too big for my finger.
Morrigan: It's not for your *finger.*
PC:

[scootermcgaffin]

aidron wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Seriously, if someone could just explain where this "Zevran is feminine" stuff is coming from without using the word 'elf' I would be incredibly grateful. He seems flamboyant, sure, but not feminine.

Be upset because the gay romance is a 'wham-bam-thank-you-man' affair instead of an actual relationship, or because writing the gay romance as that, for a character perfectly suited to that just furthers the stereotype that gay men are only in it for the sex. That's valid, and I will be right there with you. Don't be upset that the M/M option is an elf. That's just dumb.

I certainly am not. Again, I would have preferred Alistair, but Zevran seems like a remarkably intriguing character. Romances aside or not, I am very interested in learning his backstory and seeing how this casanova assassin will affect my story.

My 'concerns' (not complaints, since that would be silly given I have not played the game so far) are more about how the relationships themselves seem to unfold, as stated in my previous post.

That definitely wasn't directed toward you (especially since I've basically agreed with everything you've said about it on both forums  , but more toward the general people that complain he's too 'feminine' but then can't really back that up without going 'but he's an eeeeeeeelf'

[aidron]

Maria Caliban wrote...

aidron wrote...

***POTENTIAL SPOILERS*** 











that all females seem to demand a monogamous relationship and the relationship with Zevran appears to only unfold in the manner of an open relationship. This to me feels less like our PC has an impact in the game world and more like we're simply being told a story. Admittedly, the ring handed out by Morrigan to keep track of the PC is bizarre and I'm all the more scared of her after reading that bit of bizzaro behavior.

SPOILER

PC: It's too big for my finger.
Morrigan: It's not for your *finger.*
PC:

That's it. I'm romancing Morrigan now!

Or maybe I can hack the game so that dialog could be exchanged between me and Alistair?

[aidron]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

aidron wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Seriously, if someone could just explain where this "Zevran is feminine" stuff is coming from without using the word 'elf' I would be incredibly grateful. He seems flamboyant, sure, but not feminine.

Be upset because the gay romance is a 'wham-bam-thank-you-man' affair instead of an actual relationship, or because writing the gay romance as that, for a character perfectly suited to that just furthers the stereotype that gay men are only in it for the sex. That's valid, and I will be right there with you. Don't be upset that the M/M option is an elf. That's just dumb.

I certainly am not. Again, I would have preferred Alistair, but Zevran seems like a remarkably intriguing character. Romances aside or not, I am very interested in learning his backstory and seeing how this casanova assassin will affect my story.

My 'concerns' (not complaints, since that would be silly given I have not played the game so far) are more about how the relationships themselves seem to unfold, as stated in my previous post.

That definitely wasn't directed toward you (especially since I've basically agreed with everything you've said about it on both forums  , but more toward the general people that complain he's too 'feminine' but then can't really back that up without going 'but he's an eeeeeeeelf'

Oh, I did not think it was directed specifically at me. Apologies if it came across that way.

I do not really understand the Elf = Effeminate conclusion myself. More feminine than humans in what we have come to understand as the norm for the fantasy genre? Perhaps. Legolas certainly did not strike me as feminine in the LOTR movies. The same holds true for what I have seen of Mr. Casanova in DA so far.

[scootermcgaffin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

aidron wrote...

***POTENTIAL SPOILERS*** 











that all females seem to demand a monogamous relationship and the relationship with Zevran appears to only unfold in the manner of an open relationship. This to me feels less like our PC has an impact in the game world and more like we're simply being told a story. Admittedly, the ring handed out by Morrigan to keep track of the PC is bizarre and I'm all the more scared of her after reading that bit of bizzaro behavior.

SPOILER

PC: It's too big for my finger.
Morrigan: It's not for your *finger.*
PC:

PC: ...Well then it's not big enough! ...yeah, that's it...

[aidron]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

aidron wrote...

***POTENTIAL SPOILERS*** 











that all females seem to demand a monogamous relationship and the relationship with Zevran appears to only unfold in the manner of an open relationship. This to me feels less like our PC has an impact in the game world and more like we're simply being told a story. Admittedly, the ring handed out by Morrigan to keep track of the PC is bizarre and I'm all the more scared of her after reading that bit of bizzaro behavior.

SPOILER

PC: It's too big for my finger.
Morrigan: It's not for your *finger.*
PC:

PC: ...Well then it's not big enough! ...yeah, that's it...

I have to say this before someone else beats me to it, so....

Can I hack you into my game so I can romance you instead?


I think I just ruined any credibility this thread may have ever had. Oops.

[Deviija]

aidron wrote...
Or maybe I can hack the game so that dialog could be exchanged between me and Alistair?

The toolset is there for a reason.  Go forth and mod. 

Modifié par Deviija, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:53 .