478 réponses à ce sujet

[TheDauntless]

I think two romance options per gender, with one of each being
bisexual, was meant to give the player the most options without
sacrificing quality. More romances would have required more work and
more time, whether they were bisexual or not.

I think it's 3 per gender...two M/F couplings and one same-sex coupling. Sorry to disagree, but I'm of the belief that each of these npcs' romantic encounters play out the same way regardless of the pc's gender. Jade Empire and Mass Effect did that to their bisexual npcs.

[Varenus Luckmann]

We totally need one of these. Free love, everyone! Free love! Don't hate!

Maria Caliban wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I don't think it's funny to suggest homosexuality is the same as necrophilia and bestiality.

Why not? They're just as valid as sexual orientations.

No, they're not. And I get tired of people suggesting that me having sex with my girlfriend is the same as raping a child or an animal, or having sex with a corpse.

That 'joke' wore thin five years ago when I first started on the forums, and it's just as non-funny now.

Who are you to say what is consensual or not? 30 years ago, you could make similar arguments for every kind of sexual deviancy.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

They
aren't the same and my previous post was silly in the extreme not
unlike the premise of this thread, a point which I was trying to
illustrate. Lighten up a bit.

Your silly statement has
come up in numerous threads over the years as utterly serious
statements about why gay romances are wrong and gay people are sick.

I
realize you’d like to believe that if someone doesn’t find your comment
laugh worthy it’s because they have a three-foot pole lodged into their
rectum, but let me suggest to you that maybe, just maybe, your joke
just sucks and isn’t funny.

As opposed to your own posts, which are always hilarious.
Amirite? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

[hexaligned]

Who are you to say what is consensual or not? 30 years ago, you could make similar arguments for every kind of sexual deviancy.

You can't actually be arguing that animals and children have the capicity to both comprehend the world around them, and to make informed responsible desicions on how to interact with that world.  Thats one of the beauties of being human, and self aware, morality.  If you want to say you don't think it's immoral for YOU to do it fine, but to say it's concensual is just idocy.

[Maria Caliban]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

As opposed to your own posts, which are always hilarious.
Amirite?

Not at all. But when I say something sh*tty and someone calls me on it, I don't hide behind 'j/k lol j/k.'

[Drasanil]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Your silly statement has come up in numerous threads over the years as utterly serious statements about why gay romances are wrong and gay people are sick.

 
While it is unfortunate that some people would actually ascribe to those views in a serious manner the point remains that what I said was entirely in jest, which I thought was readily apparent, and done with out any malice. 

I realize you’d like to believe that if someone doesn’t find your comment laugh worthy it’s because they have a three-foot pole lodged into their rectum, but let me suggest to you that maybe, just maybe, your joke just sucks and isn’t funny.

Humour is a matter of  personal taste if you didn't think it was funny I won't hold it against you nor make any assumptions as to the kind of pole -if any- you may or may not have currently occupying space in your rectum.

[Valmy]

Ok I get it Bioware is a horrible homophobic racist company that you will militantly boycott.



So...enjoy your boycotting. I will be enjoying a CRPG.

[Ecaiki]

It's sad that people don't seem to grasp that the only difference between a straight person and a gay one are the targets.

Also, are you done trying to use DA to launch a crusade Dauntless? <_<

[TheDauntless]

Ok I get it Bioware is a horrible homophobic racist company that you will militantly boycott.



So...enjoy your boycotting. I will be enjoying a CRPG.

Actually I'll be in for ME2 and ME3.

But more likely Star Trek: Online rather than TOR.

Can't say for sure yet, but if ME2 and ME3 are anything like the first ME there won't be any semblance of gay male inclusion for any of us to worry about. I can enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully the storytelling in another epic space opera. Though I wish the bimbos in BioWare games would stop equating "nice" as "interest."

Modifié par TheDauntless, 30 octobre 2009 - 02:03 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

TheDauntless wrote...
Actually I'll be in for ME2 and ME3.

But more likely Star Trek: Online rather than TOR.

Can't say for sure yet, but if ME2 and ME3 are anything like the first ME there won't be any semblance of gay male inclusion for any of us to worry about. I can enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully the storytelling in another epic space opera. Though I wish the bimbos in BioWare games would stop equating "nice" as "interest."

It couldn't possibly be that you're so effimate that you've long since lost perception as to what the appropriate differences between being "nice" and showing "interest" are? Mixed signals, eh?


"What? Oh, no way, I'm not grabbing your package because I'm interested in romance or sex. I was just being nice."  :innocent:

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 30 octobre 2009 - 02:08 .

[aragfore03]

I've tried keeping an open mind on this thread but all this seems to boil down to this:

I'm upset because Alistair wasn't a gay romance option. I refuse to play DA because of it but will continue with a crusade on the boards as to why Bioware are villains and how they're angering the gay community.

That about right? I find this grossly absurd and insulting to the fine folks at Bioware who I think not only make great games but try to weave in interesting social themes into their games. I say this:

1. For someone who feels like others should have an open mind you've closed yours. You've judged the character and the intentions of Bioware without even playing the game and based on second hand information. Pretty unfair and typically an unwise thing to do.

2. Why all the hate on Sky? I thought he was a pretty cool character. I understand some of the arguments about Liara but that was pretty different. What wasn't he manly and Chinese enough given the environment and story? I think your standards on what is 'right' for the gay community in this context makes little sense. Not to mention that you are actually the person stereotyping Zevran based on a passing introduction. Interesting that.

3. If you're not buying this game and now have a hate/disinterest in anything that is Dragon Age than I suggest you spend your time elsewhere as hanging out here will continue to upset you.

I would challenge you to play the game, keep Zevran in your party, go through the romance with him, play till you beat it and then come back to these boards and see if your original thoughts and feelings hold up. If they do, I can respect that. If they don't than I hope you'd be willing to offer up that you jumped the gun on this one. 

[ScytheDA]

Are we seriously comparing bestiality to homosexual sex (between two adults)? It's not the same, animals cannot intelligently consent. Sometimes, it may not physically hurt the animal, but I think that it is immoral to take advantage of animals like that. If you think it's OK to do that with an animal I think that is very strange and not right...

Don't resurrect the past where interracial (and homosexual) relationships were regarded as immoral or wrong somehow...it's not the same as necrophilia, pedophilia, and bestiality so don't compare it with that

[elemental150]

This whole thread is pretty dumb......I feel that TheDauntless is so busy being offended that the guy he wants a gay relationship with isn't gay that the option that is available has to be "a token cop-out", that he doesn't realize that he is being completely ethnocentric. SO busy playing the victim that you can't see that there has been thought in the game to include gaymers.



1. First there are seven humaniod NPCs. Three of those are women and four are men. If you go by statistics one in ten men are estimated to be gay (even though the actual statistic is much lower then this) so statistically none of the men could be gay and the chances that four homosexual men (five if you count your player character) will randomly meet up in the course of traveling are slim to none. I think that one homosexual option is pretty good.



2.Your entire argument and source of anger is based on the western view of homosexuality and it's stereotypes. You assume that stereotypes for homosexuality is the same world wide. Views of homosexuality in eastern countries are completely different then they are in western countries. While the vast majority of the world is not particularly favorable towards homosexuality the level of disfavor, kind of disfavor, and stereotypes are completely different depending on were you go. I assume that you are an American.

While certain western ideologies are common in "western cultures" most cultures have strong difference and beliefs on a number of subjects, homosexuality being one of them. This is true even in the US. Demographically the US have different beliefs on homosexuality. I feel that judging Zevarn as a stereotype because of his lack of perceived masculinity is both short sighted and premature.

I know a number of flamboyant people that are quite masculine and a number of effeminate men that are not that flamboyant if at all. You argument being that he is an elf which is not rugged and burly and by extension reinforces a negative stereotype that does not speak to the actual in reality gay gamer. This makes me assume you are a bear and or someone that does not identify with mainstream gay culture.



3.The anger you display is misplaced. You ask for more options...specifically Alistair....but making everyone in the game bi-sexual is both unrealistic (fantasy I know) and an unnecessary gesture, not including a complete wast of disc space.....

[Darthnemesis2]

Arconi4n03 wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

Your argument seems to be ‘non-humans can’t be white,’ which seems to clash with a great deal of science fiction and fantasy. One wonders why they’ve never considered any black men for the role of Superman or Legolas.

My argument has been that white humans are not allowed to be gay/bi in BioWare games.

Will you be playing a white, gay human?

If so...problem solved

You are now one of my favorite people on the forum.

-------

[mrmoneda]

bd223437 wrote...

The point that you've selected out is that the author of that article that I am talking about created a promiscuous same sex oriented character, Zevran is also a same sex oriented character that is promiscuous.

What you fail to grasp is that Zevran was seemingly "promiscuous" (judgemental terminology FTW!) in that particular playthrough because of choices made by the person playing. It's already been stated by someone who's played the game that it's completely possible for you to have a monogamous relationship with Zevran. The point you're arguing has been false for several pages now.

As for the inclusion of beastiality and the like in this thread... Come on. It's a rediculous, offensive argument to make, and nobody should be making it.

[TheDauntless]

Why all the hate on Sky? I thought he was a pretty cool character. I understand some of the arguments about Liara but that was pretty different. What wasn't he manly and Chinese enough given the environment and story? I think your standards on what is 'right' for the gay community in this context makes little sense. Not to mention that you are actually the person stereotyping Zevran based on a passing introduction. Interesting that.

If somebody is hating on Sky that somebody isn't me. My problem was that his M/M kiss was a fade-to-black cop-out. The same was done for the F/F embrace. The reasons for why are not positive to the gay community.

If you're not buying this game and now have a hate/disinterest in anything that is Dragon Age than I suggest you spend your time elsewhere as hanging out here will continue to upset you.

If anyone is being coerced into expressing their feelings here by someone else, please use double-spaces in the future to indicate that you are in distress.

Your entire argument and source of anger is based on the western view
of homosexuality and it's stereotypes. You assume that stereotypes for
homosexuality is the same world wide. Views of homosexuality in eastern
countries are completely different then they are in western countries.
While the vast majority of the world is not particularly favorable
towards homosexuality the level of disfavor, kind of disfavor, and
stereotypes are completely different depending on were you go. I assume
that you are an American.

While certain western ideologies are
common in "western cultures" most cultures have strong difference and
beliefs on a number of subjects, homosexuality being one of them. This
is true even in the US. Demographically the US have different beliefs
on homosexuality. I feel that judging Zevarn as a stereotype because of
his lack of perceived masculinity is both short sighted and premature.

I
know a number of flamboyant people that are quite masculine and a
number of effeminate men that are not that flamboyant if at all. You
argument being that he is an elf which is not rugged and burly and by
extension reinforces a negative stereotype that does not speak to the
actual in reality gay gamer. This makes me assume you are a bear and or
someone that does not identify with mainstream gay culture.

Oh, I am. American, yes. And I'm also a twink.

This game seems to be a European-based fantasy and thus western. Seems to be "mostly" marketed to western audiences. I think it's safe to apply western perspectives from all angles but there is room for everybody's.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 30 octobre 2009 - 02:52 .

[mrmoneda]

TheDauntless wrote...

If somebody is hating on Sky that somebody isn't me. My problem was that his M/M kiss was a fade-to-black cop-out. The same was done for the F/F embrace. The reasons for why are not positive to the gay community.

Just so that you're also aware: that is completely your opinion and not actually based on fact.

[aragfore03]

Guess not opting for the challenge. Good to see you choose to remain steadfast to your close minded beliefs. I find that ironic.

Modifié par aragfore03, 30 octobre 2009 - 02:53 .

[Valmy]

TheDauntless wrote...
Actually I'll be in for ME2 and ME3.

But more likely Star Trek: Online rather than TOR.

Can't say for sure yet, but if ME2 and ME3 are anything like the first ME there won't be any semblance of gay male inclusion for any of us to worry about. I can enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully the storytelling in another epic space opera. Though I wish the bimbos in BioWare games would stop equating "nice" as "interest."

Wait so you think it is better to not have M/M romances at all than have them but have them be with bi characters....or with the wrong character?

Why cannot you simply enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully storytelling of DAO and not worry about it also?

I am so confused.

[Varenus Luckmann]

ScytheDA wrote...

Are we seriously comparing bestiality to homosexual sex (between two adults)? It's not the same, animals cannot intelligently consent. Sometimes, it may not physically hurt the animal, but I think that it is immoral to take advantage of animals like that. If you think it's OK to do that with an animal I think that is very strange and not right...

Don't resurrect the past where interracial (and homosexual) relationships were regarded as immoral or wrong somehow...it's not the same as necrophilia, pedophilia, and bestiality so don't compare it with that

The best of worlds, eh?

Oh, modernity, how I loathe thee.

[mrmoneda]

Valmy wrote...

Wait so you think it is better to not have M/M romances at all than have them but have them be with bi characters....or with the wrong character?

Why cannot you simply enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully storytelling of DAO and not worry about it also?

I am so confused.

Can't you see he is offended?! This massive, obvious insult by BioWare has caused irreparable damage to how he sees the game! It is unforgivable. Can you not feel his pain?!

[elemental150]

TheDauntless wrote...

Why all the hate on Sky? I thought he was a pretty cool character. I understand some of the arguments about Liara but that was pretty different. What wasn't he manly and Chinese enough given the environment and story? I think your standards on what is 'right' for the gay community in this context makes little sense. Not to mention that you are actually the person stereotyping Zevran based on a passing introduction. Interesting that.

If somebody is hating on Sky that somebody isn't me. My problem was that his M/M kiss was a fade-to-black cop-out. The same was done for the F/F embrace. The reasons for why are not positive to the gay community.

If you're not buying this game and now have a hate/disinterest in anything that is Dragon Age than I suggest you spend your time elsewhere as hanging out here will continue to upset you.

If anyone is being coerced into expressing their feelings here by someone else, please use double-spaces in the future to indicate that you are in distress.

Your entire argument and source of anger is based on the western view
of homosexuality and it's stereotypes. You assume that stereotypes for
homosexuality is the same world wide. Views of homosexuality in eastern
countries are completely different then they are in western countries.
While the vast majority of the world is not particularly favorable
towards homosexuality the level of disfavor, kind of disfavor, and
stereotypes are completely different depending on were you go. I assume
that you are an American.

While certain western ideologies are
common in "western cultures" most cultures have strong difference and
beliefs on a number of subjects, homosexuality being one of them. This
is true even in the US. Demographically the US have different beliefs
on homosexuality. I feel that judging Zevarn as a stereotype because of
his lack of perceived masculinity is both short sighted and premature.

I
know a number of flamboyant people that are quite masculine and a
number of effeminate men that are not that flamboyant if at all. You
argument being that he is an elf which is not rugged and burly and by
extension reinforces a negative stereotype that does not speak to the
actual in reality gay gamer. This makes me assume you are a bear and or
someone that does not identify with mainstream gay culture.

Oh, I am. American, yes. And I'm also a twink.

This game seems to be a European-based fantasy and thus western. Seems to be "mostly" marketed to western audiences. I think it's safe to apply western perspectives from all angles but there is room for everybody's.

 

so your a twink attracted to other twinks (maybe?)and are not happy with he most twink like character because you think he acts to stereotypical based on all of but maybe ten minutes of footage

[TheDauntless]

Wait so you think it is better to not have M/M romances at all than
have them but have them be with bi characters....or with the wrong
character?

Why cannot you simply enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully storytelling of DAO and not worry about it also?

I am so confused.

Because when BioWare does not bother to pretend it is a friend to gay gamers I respect them more than when they're pretending they can have it both ways while in reality catering to certain portions of straight gamers first. ME's pretense was that it would appeal to lesbian gamers in the form of Liara. Not so. She was exploited to appeal to straight male gamers primarily, but it looks good to claim that you are LGBT-inclusive when you're already going to receive criticism from conservative censors for having graphic sex, no matter who you perform it with.

I don't like DA's graphics.   I'm also much more of a space opera lover.

so your a twink attracted to other
twinks (maybe?)and are not happy with he most twink like character
because you think he acts to stereotypical based on all of but maybe
ten minutes of footage

Not quite the sum of my argument, but that is one aspect of it. He was their fall guy decision because he is the "least masculine" that many(but not all) people would label out of all the male henchmen. No, he doesn't act like many twinks I know. This is less about him and more about BioWare's choice to use the one who is outwardly stereotypical...and because he should not be the only "gay" male when there are two female options.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 30 octobre 2009 - 03:10 .

[aragfore03]

I was going to respond but I think at this point you're just feeding off the negative response you're seeing to try and further your argument while you conveniently sidestep those discussions which call into question your attitude and worldview. This is unfortunate.

[Varenus Luckmann]

TheDauntless wrote...

Wait so you think it is better to not have M/M romances at all than
have them but have them be with bi characters....or with the wrong
character?

Why cannot you simply enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully storytelling of DAO and not worry about it also?

I am so confused.

Because when BioWare does not bother to pretend it is a friend to gay gamers I respect them more than when they're pretending they can have it both ways while in reality catering to certain portions of straight gamers first. ME's pretense was that it would appeal to lesbian gamers in the form of Liara. Not so. She was exploited to appeal to straight male gamers primarily, but it looks good to claim that you are LGBT-inclusive when you're already going to receive criticism from conservative censors for having graphic sex, no matter who you perform it with.

I don't like DA's graphics.   I'm also much more of a space opera lover.

so your a twink attracted to other
twinks (maybe?)and are not happy with he most twink like character
because you think he acts to stereotypical based on all of but maybe
ten minutes of footage

Not quite the sum of my argument, but that is one aspect of it. He was their fall guy decision because he is the "least masculine" that many(but not all) people would label out of all the male henchmen. No, he doesn't act like many twinks I know. This is less about him and more about BioWare's choice to use the one who is outwardly stereotypical...and because he should not be the only "gay" male when there are two female options.

So what you're essentially saying is that you're here to complain about a game you were never going to play anyway? Truly, you exemplify everything that is wrong with the gay community.

[Knight of Flowers]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

TheDauntless wrote...

Wait so you think it is better to not have M/M romances at all than
have them but have them be with bi characters....or with the wrong
character?

Why cannot you simply enjoy the beautiful graphics, soundtrack, and hopefully storytelling of DAO and not worry about it also?

I am so confused.

Because when BioWare does not bother to pretend it is a friend to gay gamers I respect them more than when they're pretending they can have it both ways while in reality catering to certain portions of straight gamers first. ME's pretense was that it would appeal to lesbian gamers in the form of Liara. Not so. She was exploited to appeal to straight male gamers primarily, but it looks good to claim that you are LGBT-inclusive when you're already going to receive criticism from conservative censors for having graphic sex, no matter who you perform it with.

I don't like DA's graphics.   I'm also much more of a space opera lover.

so your a twink attracted to other
twinks (maybe?)and are not happy with he most twink like character
because you think he acts to stereotypical based on all of but maybe
ten minutes of footage

Not quite the sum of my argument, but that is one aspect of it. He was their fall guy decision because he is the "least masculine" that many(but not all) people would label out of all the male henchmen. No, he doesn't act like many twinks I know. This is less about him and more about BioWare's choice to use the one who is outwardly stereotypical...and because he should not be the only "gay" male when there are two female options.

So what you're essentially saying is that you're here to complain about a game you were never going to play anyway? Truly, you exemplify everything that is wrong with the gay community.

Yes, please judge the entire gay community based on someone complaining on a message board. Because straight people never complain on message boards...

Modifié par Knight of Flowers, 30 octobre 2009 - 03:27 .