61 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Quill74Pen wrote...

This whole thing of an early death as a Grey Warden due to the Taint and whatnot is wrong.

Most "normal" folks in the Medieval Age — the setting in which Dragon Age occurs — were lucky to live into their 40s or 50s if they were lucky. So if a "normal" woman is turned into a Grey Warden at age 20 or 22, she's not going to die earlier than the "normals" due to the Taint. With or without the Taint, she will live just as long as a "normal" woman.

Well, unless she gets skewered by a darkspawn.

Quill74Pen

this is assuming things arent different in dragon age world. which they are. old people arent very rare like they were here on earth in the medieval age.

i mean in dragonage they have a COMMON plant thats better for healing wounds than anything we have on earth (elfroot, the codex says people often find them growing in their gardens). they have magic healing. and most importantly they seem far far far more sanitary and clean than the medieval ages on earth. thats actually a common thing in most fantasy games.

probably the biggest factor for the short life spans in the medieval ages was how unsanitary people were, eating with their hands, never washing, leaving the dead in the street to be picked up later, dumping buckets of feces out windows from their "chamber pots". ect. thats what primarily lead to the short lifespans causing disease and sickness to be really common.

and again, with the aid of magic and medical herbs that outclasses anythign in the real world. i'd say they have fairly long life spans compared to medievil earth.

[MCPOWill]

Wait... since when does becoming a Grey Warden make you sterile? Sophia Dryden had children and she was a Grey Warden.

[Clonedzero]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Does Hawke even know about the shortened lifespan aspect of Grey Wardens? Or even the lowered birth rate part? Anders was deliberately vague about what exactly Grey Wardens suffer from when they join the order.

i dont think being a warden effects your fertility in any way. i just think its rare for them to have kids because well. they're gonna die an early death, plagued by nightmares and are duty-sworn to spend their entire life fighting and killing.
not really the kinda life you want to bring a kid into.

[IronWolf1987]

I made Bethany a warden, and thought it was the best way to go because everyone in Origins and Awakening seemed to think becoming a warden was like winning the lottery. Have to say I was quite surprised to find out she hated being a warden considering that meant she could study and practice any magic she wanted, go wherever she wanted, and would command respect from almost every nation in Thedas.

[JamieCOTC]

Question: Does Meredith threaten Bethany (if in the circle) if Hawke doesn't readily accept her quest in act 3? Just curious.

[Gabey5]

f*** em at least those damn siblings are alive. yeeesh

[BlackwindTheCommander]

Bethany didn't seem to resent me for it. She was cold because she needed to or else she would have completely shut down.

Her letter wasn't dripping with the hate Carver's seemed to be, and when she eventually seems okay with it. Especially at the end when she runs to your aid.

[DrAbysmal]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I made Bethany a warden, and thought it was the best way to go because everyone in Origins and Awakening seemed to think becoming a warden was like winning the lottery. Have to say I was quite surprised to find out she hated being a warden considering that meant she could study and practice any magic she wanted, go wherever she wanted, and would command respect from almost every nation in Thedas.

Bethany's whole thing is that she just wants to be a normal person. She's been on the run and hiding her entire life, she just wants to go somewhere and live a relatively normal life as herself. This is why she prefers the Circle over a life of constant fighting and traveling with the wardens (although she comes around a bit by the end). Carver is different and ends up liking the wardens because it finally gave him something he could dedicate his life to. I think it's a better end for him than joining the templars out of spite.

[The Spirit of Dance]

come to think of it i ended the Hawke family line in one of my playthroughs by romancing isabella as a female hawke and making carver a warden.

[Deadlysyns]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

Bethany didn't seem to resent me for it. She was cold because she needed to or else she would have completely shut down.

Her letter wasn't dripping with the hate Carver's seemed to be, and when she eventually seems okay with it. Especially at the end when she runs to your aid.

I don't know if any Choice you make in this Game is the Wrong one 

[SkittlesKat96]

Yeah, overall she seems to become more happy with her experience in the Circle, then again I guess making her become a Warden is still better than leaving her to die from the taint (whether she likes it or not in my opinion.)

[Halo Quea]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Question: Does Meredith threaten Bethany (if in the circle) if Hawke doesn't readily accept her quest in act 3? Just curious.

No, she never threatens her individually, she even compliments Bethany on being a good mage and that she holds her as an example for other mages to follow.  But all of that goes out the window once she decides that every mage should be executed after Anders blows up the Chantry.

And you can't actually refuse the quest. You can grumble about it but you're pretty much forced to do her quests in order to advance the story.   This is what bothered me the most after I became Champion, I still was everyone's errand boy.   But it really doesn't matter though, both Meredith and Orsino's quests are very "anti mage" in the fact that you really are just hunting down mages for the Templars or covering up blood magic for the Magi.

[Halo Quea]

Deadlysyns wrote...

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

Bethany didn't seem to resent me for it. She was cold because she needed to or else she would have completely shut down.

Her letter wasn't dripping with the hate Carver's seemed to be, and when she eventually seems okay with it. Especially at the end when she runs to your aid.

I don't know if any Choice you make in this Game is the Wrong one 

True, all paths lead to the same road in DA2. 

[Emzamination]

Virginian wrote...

Grey Wardens aren't sterile read the books and stop spreading false hoods. Fiona an Elven Grey Warden Mage has King Maric's baby in Dragon Age: The Calling.

As for Bethany and the Wardens she forgives by the end and even rejoins your party for the final fight and any DLC stuff you can do after the game is finished.

They aren't sterile but they might as well be seeing as they only have about a 2% chance of conceiving

Clonedzero wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Does Hawke even know about the shortened lifespan aspect of Grey Wardens? Or even the lowered birth rate part? Anders was deliberately vague about what exactly Grey Wardens suffer from when they join the order.

i dont think being a warden effects your fertility in any way. i just think its rare for them to have kids because well. they're gonna die an early death, plagued by nightmares and are duty-sworn to spend their entire life fighting and killing.
not really the kinda life you want to bring a kid into.

It does affect fertility.If they could just conceive then the baby would be fine but the male shoot blanks and the females eggs are barren.

[IronWolf1987]

DrAbysmal wrote...

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I made Bethany a warden, and thought it was the best way to go because everyone in Origins and Awakening seemed to think becoming a warden was like winning the lottery. Have to say I was quite surprised to find out she hated being a warden considering that meant she could study and practice any magic she wanted, go wherever she wanted, and would command respect from almost every nation in Thedas.

Bethany's whole thing is that she just wants to be a normal person. She's been on the run and hiding her entire life, she just wants to go somewhere and live a relatively normal life as herself. This is why she prefers the Circle over a life of constant fighting and traveling with the wardens (although she comes around a bit by the end). Carver is different and ends up liking the wardens because it finally gave him something he could dedicate his life to. I think it's a better end for him than joining the templars out of spite.

I got that, but I guess I simply misunderstood. I recalled how Alistair talked of the camraderie that wardens
shared, and even drew from my own experiences as commander of the Gray in Amaranthine of how wardens seemed to share a special espirt de corps and become a second family to eachother. Since Bethany was mage  she was always going to be different from most people, and I presumed that would mesh well with the wardens who regardless of magical talent were also different because of the taint. In other words I was thinking Bethany would find her normalcy in the fact that she would live a life surrounded with other outsiders. Also she seemed more bothered and stressed out by the fact that some day she was going to be caught, but didn't seem to have a porblem with battle or adventure. As a Warden she'd never have to worry about templars, and the life of fighting darkspawn seemed like it would transition well enough since she was already a mercenary fighting bandits, monsters, etc.

[Oneiropolos]

The Wardens DO have a lower rate of conception than others, but Alistair points out when he tries to dump you in the first game that part of his motivation is also having -a parent be around to raise the child-. Which doesn't happen with Wardens as they start being lost to the taint and go to their Calling to at least die in battle.

However, now that all circles are rebelling, any mage that's a known mage is a potential target. Bethany would still be constantly fleeing or fighting now. Anders also proved that one could, in fact, leave the Grey Wardens. You can't stop what you ARE, but you CAN leave. Bethany could very well take that choice later, marry, and adopt a kid if they can't conceive. If she wanted to. Don't forget that Avernus was also working on some interesting methods of trying to make the taint not such an issue. Those who let him live deliver a letter to the Wardens from him, where he says he's reaching the end of his time but he's documented things extensively so that someone would be able to follow his findings and continue the research. Who knows. Avernus was mostly focussed on unlocking the potential of the taint, but in doing so, he may find a way (or lead another to find the way) to negate the whole going-to-die-from-it in his research. Being a Warden might NOT be just a unique death sentence soon. Of course, if you killed him and picked Sophia..uh...things might turn out really differently in your future. >.>

[IronWolf1987]

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be foolish enough to attack a Grey Warden mage, regardless of what the circle is doing. Mages are a very valuable resource in battling the darkspawn and blights, and if someone were to start knocking off Warden mages, the Wardens might consider that a threat to their ability to effectively fight darkspawn. I mean I know I would.

[Nathan Redgrave]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Does Hawke even know about the shortened lifespan aspect of Grey Wardens? Or even the lowered birth rate part? Anders was deliberately vague about what exactly Grey Wardens suffer from when they join the order.

Not that it matters. When your choice is "die now" or "die young," there isn't much choice to be had. Knowing that Wardens died young wouldn't really change much about Hawke's perspective on the matter.

[Nathan Redgrave]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be foolish enough to attack a Grey Warden mage, regardless of what the circle is doing. Mages are a very valuable resource in battling the darkspawn and blights, and if someone were to start knocking off Warden mages, the Wardens might consider that a threat to their ability to effectively fight darkspawn. I mean I know I would.

With the Fifth Blight so fresh in recent memory, I highly doubt most nations would do anything to antagonize the Grey Wardens. It wasn't until the memory of the Fourth Blight had faded that the Wardens started facing opposition, after all.

[jfp2004]

See, for either sibling, I think I would make them a Warden every play through. Yeah, my opinion of the Wardens is biased by having played DA:O and seeing it from that perspective, but I also considering the alternatives. Granted, in the context of the game, Hawke can't know at the time that the choice of leaving Bethany behind will lead to the circle and bringing her along will lead to death or becoming a Warden. But since I can't help but be aware of that as I play, I consider...

If it was another city, perhaps, then the Circle would probably be the best option for Bethany. But in Kirkwall? Where the mages are kept in their cells and so many of them have to either flee or resort to horrible magic in their attempts to get more freedoms? I'm not really sure how that can be going on while Bethany is also supposed to be happier. Not having to hide anymore might be nice, sure, but with all of that oppression going on, I can't imagine that it's an easy life. It's almost like there's two versions of the Circle in the game. One that's being horribly oppressed and confined, and another that's being allowed out.

But Kirkwall seems tranquil happy and the templars have more power than usual because of Meredith. There's more than a few good Templars, with the likes of Cullen, but overall, it still seems like a very dangerous environment.

Not that the life of a Warden is any easier, but it does remove the threat of the Templars for good.

If she's in the Circle, she might be glad, but it's not going to last for long, and with the uprising of the mages, it's back to square one, increasing the chances of danger most likely. Of course, all of Thedas probably isn't going to be very safe after that, but being with the Grey Wardens might be slightly safer, ironically enough. Even if they don't remain neutral forever (or one side ignores said neutrality) it will probably hold up at least a little while.

Besides, at the end, Bethany does come back as a Warden and seems less cool, like she's not blaming Hawke so much anymore...she seems much happier than her earlier appearances, if not a bit distant because of everything that's going on. Of course, Hawke is probably in a similar state of mind, considering all that he/she's gone through since Bethany's been gone.

Sorry for the rambling post.

[SmokeyTheBear]

To clarify:

Carver has more testiculars than my MaleHawkeMage does, becoming a templar to get the threat of their back.

Think about it. His entire life, along with his parents' when he's alive, is spent running and hiding from templars, because of his siblings. They couldn't stand up and join the Circle for their family, so he joined the templars, taking the initiative and suffering for his sibling's actions.

I liked him before that, and I found new respect for him with that move.

Rock on, Carver.

[kormoram]

About Carver and Grey Wardens . . .
Look at Carver's armor at Varic's "bull****" story (mage Hawke).

[TobiTobsen]

Halo Quea wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Question: Does Meredith threaten Bethany (if in the circle) if Hawke doesn't readily accept her quest in act 3? Just curious.

No, she never threatens her individually, she even compliments Bethany on being a good mage and that she holds her as an example for other mages to follow.  But all of that goes out the window once she decides that every mage should be executed after Anders blows up the Chantry.

Yup. If you side with the templars in the end and Bethany is in the Circle Meredith orders you to kill her. Thats the point where I told her to shove her Right of Annulment to a place where the sun doesn't shine and turned on her. And exactly like five minutes before where i spared some good mages that surrendered Cullen backed me up. Thats the point where Meredith goes on her lyrium infused rampage.

[Ailith Tycane]

I sorta liked making her a Warden. It's obviously not the best option (as far as Bethany's happiness), but since she was in the deep roads with me, it was either Grey Warden or death by blight. Besides, I know being a warden is hard, but after playing the first game and getting so in touch with the order, I can't deny it made me feel good bolstering their ranks with a powerful mage, even if shes my characters sister, lol

Modifié par Ailith430, 19 mars 2011 - 10:33 .

[Lord of Mu]

I'd go with the circle option if Bethany wasn't going to the Kirkwall circle. Kirkwall should never have a circle or any mages in the city. The veil is so thin due to all the deaths during the Imperium days. Add the recent events and the city is a hive of demonic activity.

I went with the Warden option hoping the blood mages wouldn't dare kidnap a Grey Warden. While I was wrong I'm glad Bethany forgave me.

As for having children, I didn't know about the reduced birthrate chance. As far as I knew if two Grey Wardens create a child the child will also carry the taint and live an extremely short life. But if you have a single warden and a non tainted partner there shouldn't be any issue.