546 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

God Damn it, now DA3's going to cut back on the romances because of this.

[ScotGaymer]

Phaelducan wrote...

Your logic for saying the mechanics behind the conversation aren't flawed is a youtube workaround....

Dude listen to yourself. It's poorly written.

No I was merely pointing out that there is the "workaround" as you call it.

*shrug*

I just meant, perhaps I havent been clear enough about it if so I apologise, is that I like that there isnt a "third way" option in every situation. That some situations require a bad and worse choice. Not every choice needs to have the third cop out of consequences choice.

Not having one isnt bad dialogue design. At least not as far as I am concerned.

EDIT:
I can understand why some people dont like that there isnt that option; and feel that in an RPG there ought to be. I get that.
Just dont agree with it.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 25 mars 2011 - 11:05 .

[Sen4lifE]

And just to clear it up for you (and I don't mean that in an insultive way, just to tell you what happens), the middle heart doesn't let you let him down in the next choice.  It's actually just dodging it completely.  You hit on him, then you can just continue the conversation.  All it does it avoid giving you rivalry points.  It's a loophole, which isn't really a solution to the problem.

If you think the rejection option is okay, that's fine.  But there are people, including me, who don't, and feel 2 flirting options that give the same result is a bit redundant when they could have given you the choice of being direct about it or being friendly.  You are given that option in the other encounters, it makes no sense for you to allow Hawke to do this in this situation.

[ScotGaymer]

It's possible that that middle option IS the third way option and just has the heart icon erroneously assigned to it...

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 25 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[The Minority]

mrsph wrote...

All these threads about gay romances are starting to make me think that people have serious insecurity issues.

I agree. When Anders flirts with them, they act like they'll catch homosexuality.

[Phaelducan]

Or that there is WAY too much emphasis placed on romances in this series in general.

It's a minor part of the game, and people care an absurdly high amount.

[Sen4lifE]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

It's possible that that middle option IS the third way option and just has the heart icon erroneously assigned to it...

In a way, which is the same as admitting they messed up.

It's the best "loophole" to it, because it's kind of flirting, but it can also be just in a joking way.  However the heart shows it's flirting.  It's just not enough to set off the romance flag, which is good.

However that's what disappoints me is having to use a loophole in the first place.  There are usually many options and in an RPG game where you're suppposed to define who Hawke is, there should be more options to take in this.

I know you don't agree to that, and that's fine.  It's not like that game is going to change, you're just going to have to make him made or take a loop hole.

It just disappointed me to see this, it looks as like whoever wrote that part was staying awake off of massive doses of coffee and didn't really think about all the personality options as there are in most cases.

Don't look at it like the option itself, look at it like this situation should have been standardized with the other situations: a rude response, an agreeable response (as defined in the manual), a sarcastic response and a flirt response.

It seems as if it was an oversight when writing this part.

And to respond to your earlier post: yes, there are homophobes.  And that is not the point I was trying to make here.  If you noticed, I have jumped on people for driving this thread the wrong way: both trying to make this situation look entirely homophobic and others saying that gays should not be treated equally.  I believe homosexuality should not limit your rights in any way, but I'm not going to discuss that, because this isn't a political forum, it's a DA2 forum.


Edit: Oh and I do think it's a little silly how their sexuality changes on your gender.  It's like if you're a female, the males will be straight and if your male they'll be bi.  I haven't played as a female so I can't say this is 100% accurate but it does seem like the females are just straight yet if I were a female they'd be bi.  I think it'd give a little more to realism if they were just set as bi or something.  Though, this is merely a game feature for convienence, and does make sense, it's just a little silly in a way.

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 25 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Sen4lifE]

mrsph wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Or that there is WAY too much emphasis placed on romances in this series in general.

It's a minor part of the game, and people care an absurdly high amount.

Literally the only thing people care about on these forums is the romances. Story, plot, or other characters be damned.

Your right, that's why there isn't a huge archive of "I felt the story is..." or "This character is..."

Wait.....

[ScotGaymer]

Sen4lifE wrote...

In a way, which is the same as admitting they messed up.

It's the best "loophole" to it, because it's kind of flirting, but it can also be just in a joking way.  However the heart shows it's flirting.  It's just not enough to set off the romance flag, which is good.

However that's what disappoints me is having to use a loophole in the first place.  There are usually many options and in an RPG game where you're suppposed to define who Hawke is, there should be more options to take in this.

I know you don't agree to that, and that's fine.  It's not like that game is going to change, you're just going to have to make him made or take a loop hole.

It just disappointed me to see this, it looks as like whoever wrote that part was staying awake off of massive doses of coffee and didn't really think about all the personality options as there are in most cases.

Don't look at it like the option itself, look at it like this situation should have been standardized with the other situations: a rude response, an agreeable response (as defined in the manual), a sarcastic response and a flirt response.

Okay its totally not a loophole at all lol. Dont matter which way you look at it; if its meant to be a romance option or if its not meant to be a romance option.

Either way its a mistake.

I mean if they meant for it to be a romance option but it doesnt work like one then thats a bug there; because it doesnt continue the romance (unless I misunderstood you and it does continue the romance?).
If they meant for it not to be a romance option but a nice "let Anders down gently" response then having the heart icon is also a bug/mistake.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 25 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[Freeway911]

The Minority wrote...

mrsph wrote...

All these threads about gay romances are starting to make me think that people have serious insecurity issues.

I agree. When Anders flirts with them, they act like they'll catch homosexuality.

Ok I was worried that my wife romancing Isabella meant she was going to leave me for another woman. I guess I can go back to being concerned that her playing will make her a knife swinging, blood covered, lock picking, rogue. I honestly don't see why this has become such a major issue.

[Phaelducan]

Look at the percentages of total posts. Yeah... the threads you list are there... but look at how many posts they get compared to the gay/straight romance threads.

I realize that it might just seem that way (like all of the time) but there are tons of dozen page threads on this issue... and the simple issue is that if I go ask 10 people on the street who have actually played the game their answer to the question of "what's the biggest issue in the game" the answer won't be Hawke's sexual preferences.

[Sen4lifE]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

In a way, which is the same as admitting they messed up.

It's the best "loophole" to it, because it's kind of flirting, but it can also be just in a joking way.  However the heart shows it's flirting.  It's just not enough to set off the romance flag, which is good.

However that's what disappoints me is having to use a loophole in the first place.  There are usually many options and in an RPG game where you're suppposed to define who Hawke is, there should be more options to take in this.

I know you don't agree to that, and that's fine.  It's not like that game is going to change, you're just going to have to make him made or take a loop hole.

It just disappointed me to see this, it looks as like whoever wrote that part was staying awake off of massive doses of coffee and didn't really think about all the personality options as there are in most cases.

Don't look at it like the option itself, look at it like this situation should have been standardized with the other situations: a rude response, an agreeable response (as defined in the manual), a sarcastic response and a flirt response.

Okay its totally not a loophole at all lol. Dont matter which way you look at it; if its meant to be a romance option or if its not meant to be a romance option.

Either way its a mistake.

I mean if they meant for it to be a romance option but it doesnt work like one then thats a bug there; because it doesnt continue the romance (unless I misunderstood you and it does continue the romance?).
If they meant for it not to be a romance option but a nice "let Anders down gently" response then having the heart icon is also a bug/mistake.

From what I understand, it doesn't set the romance flag.  However, it still gives a flirty response, and I believe that it's intended to be flirty.  But really, it's flirty with no effect toward the romance.  It's there just to give the player an option to use it.  However, both flirts do this, which makes giving the player 2 of them redundant.  This is why I'd prefer they use their traditional, 1) Flirt, 2) Friendly, 3) Rude system.  I meant loophole by using the flirt option to not insult him then ignoring it after that.

You don't "let him down," the middle makes you reply, "Am I making -YOU- uncomfortable?" which considering the heart, is supposed to be like a soft flirt.  So you have to use that then just ignore the romance options after if you don't want to gain rivalry.  I think that's a bit silly having to do that, considering they could just give you a friendly let down option and then a rude one (maybe the rude giving -10 or -15 and the soft one giving you -5 or -10?)

Again, if I get rivalry, eh, at least they give me the option to try to be friendly.

[Nyx]

Sen4lifE wrote...

If you think the rejection option is okay, that's fine.  But there are people, including me, who don't, and feel 2 flirting options that give the same result is a bit redundant when they could have given you the choice of being direct about it or being friendly.  You are given that option in the other encounters, it makes no sense for you to allow Hawke to do this in this situation.

Actually, you don't have to reject him -- you just have to disagree (charmingly or directly) with his decision to merge with Justice in the second question. In other words, there's only one statement aside from the flirting that leads to Anders taking the romantic intiative.

Anders: "I didn't know what would happen. I figured a willing host, a friend... it had to be better than playing the demon and haunting some corpse."

Choice A: "You did the right thing."
Diplomatic Hawke: "We can't always predict the outcome of our actions. We can only make them with a true heart."
Anders' Reaction: Falls in love with Hawke; +10 Rivalry, if you turn him down.

Choice B: "That doesn't make it better."
Charming Hawke: "Still creepy."
Anders' Reaction: +5 Rivalry Total, even if you select the renegade answer for the next question.

Choice C: "You should have known better."
Direct Hawke: "Spirits aren't meant to inhabit human bodies. That's what demons do."
Anders' Reaction: +10 Rivalry Total, even if you select the diplomatic answer for the next question.

If a player doesn't want Anders to "presume", they should avoid picking "Choice A" (in question two) at all costs. Then they can feel free to be as diplomatic as they wish for the rest of the game (and including the moments before this quick decision). Even though Choice C is a bottom choice, Hawke says this informatively without being unreasonably harsh.

Modifié par Nyx.Aeterna, 26 mars 2011 - 01:24 .

[John Forseti]

That's a bit gamey though isn't it? To choose to disagree, regardless of whether you or not you do just to evade an upcoming false dichotomy.

I don't think it's annoying that the diplomatic response leads to Anders "falling for" Hawke. It just that having taken it, there isn't really a diplomatic "not interested" option afterwards. Just a rather curt one, and two (variable?) "interested" ones.


Though, it's not a big enough issue to have generated a t 17 page thread. Or so I would have thought.

Modifié par John Forseti, 26 mars 2011 - 01:41 .

[Sen4lifE]

Nyx.Aeterna wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

If you think the rejection option is okay, that's fine.  But there are people, including me, who don't, and feel 2 flirting options that give the same result is a bit redundant when they could have given you the choice of being direct about it or being friendly.  You are given that option in the other encounters, it makes no sense for you to allow Hawke to do this in this situation.

Actually, you don't have to reject him -- you just have to disagree (charmingly or directly) with his decision to merge with Justice in the second question. In other words, there's only one statement aside from the flirting that leads to Anders taking the romantic intiative.

Anders: "I didn't know what would happen. I figured a willing host, a friend... it had to be better than playing the demon and haunting some corpse."

Choice A: "You did the right thing."
Diplomatic Hawke: "We can't always predict the outcome of our actions. We can only make them with a true heart."
Anders' Reaction: Falls in love with Hawke; +10 Rivalry, if you turn him down.

Choice B: "That doesn't make it better."
Charming Hawke: "Still creepy."
Anders' Reaction: +5 Rivalry Total, even if you select the renegade answer for the next question.

Choice C: "You should have known better."
Direct Hawke: "Spirits aren't meant to inhabit human bodies. That's what demons do."
Anders' Reaction: +10 Rivalry Total, even if you select the diplomatic answer for the next question.

If a player doesn't want Anders to "presume", they should avoid picking "Choice A" (in question two) at all costs. Then they can feel free to be as diplomatic as they wish for the rest of the game (and including the moments before this quick decision). Even though Choice C is a bottom choice, Hawke says this informatively without being unreasonably harsh.

I mentioned this previously: you should not have to be rude to him before just to avoid a badly planned scenario.

[enrogae]

I haven't read this whole thread, so this is entirely in response to the OP:

As a bisexual person, I wholeheartedly agree! I feel like this method demeans GBLT people in a very subtle way, and straight people too if it had occurred that way (I don't recall Isabella getting upset when I didn't flirt with her port-to-port skank self hehe). The basic message I get is this: gay people only care if you'll sleep with them. If you won't, they will think less of you.

This is untrue, immersion breaking, and I agree.. if you are straight it would probably mess the game up for you. GBLT are real people too, and are just as complex as their straight counterparts. Most gay people, mature adults anyway, don't hit on obviously straight people that they know they don't really have a shot with. This makes me wonder if these character's dialogue were all written by straight people who haven't quite figured that out yet. I honestly do not know, but it certainly feels less like a genuinely believable gay character, and more like a fake, shallow gay character to draw in the gay gamer crowd.

Either that or the writers think that all gay people are inherently promiscuous, which is outright fallacious and insulting.

[RenascentAnt1]

[quote]Sen4lifE wrote...

But at sometimes, you don't actually a get a choice, which is a bit annoying, because personally, I'm straight.

This should go if you're gay and want to be without hitting on someone of the opposite sex..... [etc]


Well personally I don't think this is an issue of gayness but poor script writing. In Mass Effect, the romance/flirt option only comes up after Shephard has had several visits and chats with her/his squadmates. For me that is more realistic, because it shows that Shepard and the other character has had time to get to know each other, which makes romance/non-romance a possibility.

On another note, whilst I appreciate that your lengthy disclaimers about this not being a political discussion, surely you are aware that by raising an issue which has tremendous political sensitivity and debate within a PUBLIC forum, that you are actually making a political statement? I hope you will also use this as an opportunity to reflect why you feel uncomfortable that as a straight person, you would have such a response even within a video game? Just a thought.

[dantares83]

I never read through the whole thread but when you hit on someone and is rejected, you will feel somehow bad/ashamed about it, so that is nothing wrong with Anders feeling a bit dejected and bad for mistakening you as a gay when u r not...
I mean there are 'obviously' straight people that turned out to be gay and guys who exhibits 'stereotypical' gay vibes but are actually straight as arrows... so he decided to be take that one chance n try his 'luck'... n boom.. not gay n not interested... n he felt sad... very normal... but at least no regrets next time...

regarding Isabela not getting rivalry points, that is just her personality, we see her rejecting this guy with such rude comments that I wouldn't be surprised if the guy will no dare to pick up any women in bars anymore...

so I really don't see why the OP would get so upset on this..

[Chaos_1001]

Th OP in fact is not angry about this but more or less opened a discussion about it. The point I "think" was to get everyone's ideas on the table so Bioware could take a look into this going forward. The OP was not trying to do anything to force their opinion on anyone here. The OP did have strong thoughts on the subject and welcomed additional "relevant" feedback .The only time the OP ( from what I saw ) was actually aggressive in their thinking was for personal attacks and when someone tried to turn the subject into " something else" .

I myself see this discussion as very insightful. There is in fact a lot of great feed back on the subject within this topic.

[Taura-Tierno]

dantares83 wrote...

regarding Isabela not getting rivalry points, that is just her personality, we see her rejecting this guy with such rude comments that I wouldn't be surprised if the guy will no dare to pick up any women in bars anymore...

Yeah. At one point in a banter with Aveline, Isabela says something about how she casts a wide net to catch people, and that she's been told "Go away you pirate wench" (paraphrased) more times than she can count. Seems as if she accepts rejections without a second thought, really. You know. Gotta try, and if it doesn't work, so what.