[quote]Carfax wrote...
[quote]FitScotGaymer wrote...
You ought not to stereotype like that. If you still dont believe me; Alexander the Great liked dudes as well, and he was considered the most badass conquering warrior in the world until the advent of Genghis Khan..[/quote]
I'm really sicked and tired of gays perverting Alexander the Great.
Lets get a few facts straight shall we?Alexander the Great had THREE wives, and many concubines. Gay men back then were still required to marry and reproduce to provide heirs, but if Alexander the Great was gay, then he wouldn't have married three women and had so many mistresses.
It is patently obvious that Alexander the Great loved beaver.
He may have possibly been bisexual, but even this can be disputed. Alexander the Great was offered "two beautiful boys" but he refused the both of them and was apparently outraged that they had even been offered to him.
Here's an excerpt from a book which explains what happened:
[quote]Ages Savill, Alexander the Great and His Time, Barnes and Noble, New York, 1993, p 210-211 “Philoxenus, who commanded his forces upon the coast, acquainted Alexander by letter, that there was one Theodorus a Tarentine with him, who had two beautiful boys to sell, and desired to know whether he chose to buy them. Alexander was so much incensed at this that he asked his friends several times, ‘What base inclinations Philoxenus had ever seen in him that he durst make him so infamous a proposal?’ In his answer to the letter, which was extremely severe upon Philoxenus, he ordered him to dismiss Theodorus and his vile merchandise together. He likewise reprimanded young Agnon, for offering to purchase Crobylus for him, whose beauty was famous in Corinth.” (Plut. 4 Alex. pp. 251-2)[/quote][/quote]
Interesting. If your claim is true then who are gay people going to use as an example from now on?
[/quote]
Shakespear
[quote]Eclipse_9990 wrote...
[quote]ReinaHW wrote...
[quote]Eclipse_9990 wrote...
[quote]Kotetsimaru wrote...
[quote]Eclipse_9990 wrote...
[quote]ReinaHW wrote...
Something to consider is that homosexuals/bi-sexuals don't choose that lifestyle, the same as trans-gender, it's what they're born as.
As they grow and learn about themselves and about life, they note their feelings and thoughts.
I never chose to be the person I am, I was born as I am. In a game it a choice of sorts, if a character is programmed to feel that way for another character then it's programming and the player can make up their own mind if they aren't interested or go with the flow.
The player is given the choice to choose for themselves, but it doesn't mean that if a hetrosexual male plays a game and chooses for their character to have a homosexual relationship that it will make them that way, it's a game relationship and doesn't reflect on the player's lifestyle.
I find it refreshing to be honest, I'm pretty tired of the usual generic hetrosexual characters, it's nice to give the player the choice.
A hetrosexual lifestyle and character is always forced into people's faces, but the choice for a homosexual or bi-sexual relationship in a game isn't forced in the face like a hetrosexual character is.
If people are unable to see that it's a choice then they have the problem, not those who gave them the choice.[/quote]
Well trans-genders arn't technically born that way. Unless your talking about hermaphrodites. Transgenders are just gay/bi people who chose to get implanted breasts, have their balls cut off, and their dick turned inside out. While the girls become guys with vagina's, and get a fake penis strapped onto them. They arent exactly "born" that way. I never understood why they seperated Transgenders in their own group.
[/quote]
Erm quite possibly because your idea of Transgender is kind of messed up. They are not gay/bi people who choose to change sex. They are people who feel they have the wrong sex body, BIG difference. Their sexual preference has nothing to do with why they go through those operations.[/quote]
Hmm.. So the're just guys/girls with an identity crisis... I guess that makes sense..
[/quote]
No, not an identifty crisis, nothing so dramatic. It's something that happens in the womb and progresses as the person becomes older and their gender identity, which isn't part of their physical gender, becomes to assert itself. For someone who's trans-gender they find they have different feelings that don't match how people see them, regard them and such due to their physical gender.
I'm trans-gender - female trapped within a male body - Ever since my self awareness kicked in when I was very young and my gender identity developed I have always seen myself as female, while people see me and treat me as a man, which I hate deeply since I don't regard myself as male.
It made puberty horrible beyond words because I knew I was developing wrong, even after learning about how the body develops as it enters adulthood at the time, it was still horrible.
I'm working bit by bit to removing the birth defect of my male body, takes time, but I'm hoping I'll manage it even though it means making sacrifices like never being able to be a parent and pratically going through a second puberty.
But compared to living within a male body and being treated and regarded as the man I'm not, and which I refuse to be, then those sacrifices are small fry in comparsion.
I prefer being treated and regarded as the woman I am within, feels more real to me than being treated like a male.
[/quote]
Intriguing... But . Why let your mindset determine the way you are or should be physically? You can still be a guy, and be effeminate(not saying you are, just using an example), and be attracted to other men or women you know... Also I don't want this to come off as "mean" or "harsh" but your always going to be a guy no matter what surgery or change takes place, and people will notice..
Unless your really androgynous people are probably still going to notice, and treat you differently. It would just cause you more problems especially if you bring someone home and want to have sex unless said person already knew you were transgendered before hand. Also on the subject of sex I've always wondered something and this is a decent opportunity to get some answers.
As far as I know the male to female process is essentially mutilation of ones reproductive organs. But I don't doubt that men to women transgenders have sex. Isnt it hard to feel any pleasure with out certain... "parts"? I'm probably wrong as I don't really know anything about this kind of stuff. I'm just curious...
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Actually, not necessarily. It is partly physical. The brain itself can develop like a female brain and the person themself can actually think they are female, albeit having a male body. She is right for a large part of that. It's a genetic disorder, excuse be if you're offended by that wording, but it's kind of like this: you're body develops mentally as a female and even your brain (there is a physical difference between a male brain and female brain, not saying either is better, but like almost every part of the body, it is different) could physically be a female's. It's kind of like one chromosome slipping in where it shouldn't. From my understanding, that is a big role in how homosexuality develops also. This is why it's claimed to be genetic, not a choice. For example, a homosexual male, the hormones to have attraction to a female are for some reason replaced by hormones to be attracted to males, reflecting homosexuality. Even many gays call this an "accident of birth" because it is not "natural", however I don't mean that in an offensive way, but it's like any other alteration of birth. With millions of humans born, things happen that aren't set to happen - happen. It's like an error. I do not believe this makes heterosexuals better than homosexuals as some do though. Do you believe you're rightously superior to someone with down syndrome? I'm not saying they're equal, but someone with down syndrome was born with that because of an "error" at birth. People that are homosexual or even develop an opposite gender mindset should have the right to live as they were born just as heterosexuals do, as this is the way they were born - it is who they are. I do actually find it equal, in a way, and against my own words (I said it wasn't natural to try to clarify) natural, because whether or not some people like it, it happens. If it happens in nature (no one put them under a laser beam and hacked their genes), it is "natural." So yes, homosexuality is, in a sense, natural. And regardless if it were by choice or genetics - everyone has a right to define themself, whether or not you believe it to be ethically acceptable.
This may just be ignorance, but in a way, being "trans-gendered" is like... a severity of homosexuality. As in, instead of just developing some hormonial attitudes of the opposite sex, you develop a complete mindset of the opposite sex. However I don't think that theory works all the time because I believe it is possible to be born "trans-gendered" and still be attracted to the opposite sex (opposite of what you are born as, same if you do change genders).
I'm not a biologist, but this is my take on it.
[quote]tiernanls wrote...
honestly i really hear where the op is coming from on this. its being highlighted a bit much on this particular anders romance but it takes place all over the game in just regular banter. there are times when there is no grey area. thats fine i guess, but if you really want your charactors choices to reflect your own personality it sucks to not be able to say in this particular scenario "not my thing bro but more power to you". i did not like that turning him down = condemning homosexuality. i have no issue with being gay. im just not. thats the long and short of it.
look, im as straight as straight gets. i love T&A in movies and get excited about lingerie football. lol. but at the end of the day its a game. its not the end of the world. im paragon/friendly all the way in all bioware games. i absolutely hate the idea of having negative points added to a friendship. i reload all the time and try different party members when it happens. so my solution was simple, especially since its just a game. i reloaded, did the "am i making YOU uncomfortable" option since its not really romancing.... the game makes it quite clear that until you get em in the sack youre just flirting. and throughout the rest of the game i never had one scenario with anders that forced me to flirt with him again. i always had a "youre a good friend" option. my character ended up being a one woman man with isabella.
also, since its just a game, i always play through games like this with the opposite gender as well. so many things are different in both origins and 2 based on race/gender/class etc. it adds replay value. so if it makes you feel any better you get the same damn bottleneck of choices with a chick hawke and its actually even worse. both flirt choices result in you hitting on him hardcore right back. there is even less grey area in what is a completely heterosexual conversation. to me there should be more cause for conern there as to pigeon-holing female players.
this game just has a liberal slant. its their game. they paid for it and wrote it and made it. they get that choice. they want you to try everything. shoot if you want all the achievements in the first one you HAVE to do a playthrough in both sexes. only way to get all the romancing achievements. and since its a game i have no problem saying that i got zevrans romancing achievement as a dude to save time. lol. broke it off with him afterwards since leliana pitched a fit. but still. you can skip past the cinematic. lol.
my only compaint in 2 is that its awesome that there are characters who cannot be swayed one way or the other in their political stances. fenris pretty much hates mages no matter what. no matter what you do anders sees no compromise between the templars and the mages and blood magic is just evil to him. you would think that the same would apply to their sexuality. it makes sense in isabellas demeanor that she would swing for both teams. but to have every romance option be available for both sexes is a bit unrealistic in my opinion. i much prefer the way it was in origins. and even then it was somewhat unrealistic. i know lots of gay guys that find the idea of being with a woman repulsive. some people are just gay. there are no characters like that in either game. theyre either straight, or they swing both ways. this is slightly offensive to me as it kinda pigeon-holes homosexuality as a choice. one that has nothing to do with the make-up of the individual talking to you just that sex is more fun to them with more options. there are signs all over the place that homsexuals should have much more to complain about as pertaining to pigeon-holing sexual orientation.
at the end of the day, both titles are somewhat groundbreaking in that there is a choice. i think its pretty damn brave that they would even approach it, and am glad they did so. its a divisive topic to begin with, and its fairley awesome that the mods are letting us debate here on these forums to begin with. being a bit homophobic is completely normal for people of certain backgrounds. the op is hardley a bigot. its a legitimate gripe, its just not all that much of an earth-shattering mistake by the writers in my opinion, and quite frankly one of the weakest examples of pigeon-holing a sexual orientation in the game. there are many more on the fem-hawke straight side.
[/quote]
I chose that option too and so far it's been find. It does make Hawke flirty and I think it opens up flirty dialogue to men (as in the no-choice scenarios where dialogue isn't even selectable and Hawke talks on his own). But eh, it's no big deal, you still get a choice when it counts and one can also just easily take it as a joking Hawke which fits because I was sarcastic also. Picking the middle option is a good work around, my thing about it though is that there shouldn't need to be a work around.
[quote]ReinaHW wrote...
No problem. Many tend to be misinformed
about Trans-gender's, they tend to think it's something like in the
movies or some TV show where what's shown is the misinformed notion from
someone who has never bothered to actually learn the truth.
The
same can be said of homophobics and so on, they know nothing about that
which they hate, they just hate because they're too lazy and too simple
minded to truly understand and see the truth.
In a sense, it's
like all the hate for anything, much of the hate for a lot of things in
life is from misinformation. People tend to believe the lies the narrow
minded media will tell them instead of opening their eyes and really
seeing the truth.
To hate without reason is to close the eyes and heart off to life.[/quote]
The
same can be said about people who call other people homophobics. Some
people admit to being homophobic but still fight for gay rights because
they believe they should have rights, but gayness creeps them out.
Maybe they're just more comfortable not being around it, it doesn't mean
they want to oppress gays, some even help (I believe there is a post like that in another thread about gay relationships in Dragon Age).
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it."
That saying applies real well to that situation.
Modifié par Sen4lifE, 01 avril 2011 - 04:12 .
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