546 réponses à ce sujet

[Conduit0]

I can understand why some people might be annoyed by how its difficult to skirt around Ander's advances the way you can with the other characters, but on the other hand, for Anders it totally makes sense, the guy is desperately trying to cling to something, anything to regain his sanity and curb Vengence's, well vengence. If you're simply crying about the rivalary hit, boo freaking hoo, if you're pro mage you'll max Anders before you even make it out of act 2 and if you're pro templar, you were never going to be friends in the first place.

[Sad Dragon]

Ryzaki wrote...

And for the 20th time people rivalry is not a punishment. 

You seem to be somewhat of the threads champion of this, and you also state that you like rivalry which is all cool.

Now something dawned on me and I got to thinking which led me to the question I'm about to ask -- it is a bit of a side topic I suppose, but at least somewhat related to the topic.

Why do you get rivalry points for turning down a romance?

Maybe rivalry points might not have been the best named mechanic or perhapps I'm just thinking about it the wrong way. I mean sure they could get mad if you shoot them down in a less then diplomatic way -- they can even be disapointed and sad if you go about it diplomatically. But why would they take a rivalry stance because of it?

The way I see it here is that these rivalry points is -friendship points not rivalry points -- which would be a punishment in this case. I say this due to my view that you lose friendship here rather then gain rivalry, as loosing friendship and gaining rivalry is the same thing  (as its on one scale), but instead of giving -10/-5 friendship (not even sure if there are such a thing as negative points in the game) you gain points of the opposit side instead as the effect is the same.

Again I might be wrong here but just some thoughts on the topic. And also, the question is not directed at Ryzaki specifically, so anyone who have any thoughts on this just go ahead  (Ryzaki as well ofc ^^; )

/TSD

[AustinKain]

Sen4lifE wrote...

 He wasn't even remotely gay in Awakening, now you can't even avoid flirting with him while trying to make friends?

.

Anders wasnt gay in Awakening? I kept waiting for the option to tell him to whip it out or bend me over in Awakening.  If you had no idea that he was at least bi-curious in Awakening then you sir have not been around many homosexual persons at all.

[Blacklash93]

Sad Dragon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And for the 20th time people rivalry is not a punishment. 

You seem to be somewhat of the threads champion of this, and you also state that you like rivalry which is all cool.

Now something dawned on me and I got to thinking which led me to the question I'm about to ask -- it is a bit of a side topic I suppose, but at least somewhat related to the topic.

Why do you get rivalry points for turning down a romance?

/TSD

Like others have said, Anders is clingy.

[Ryzaki]

Sad Dragon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And for the 20th time people rivalry is not a punishment. 

You seem to be somewhat of the threads champion of this, and you also state that you like rivalry which is all cool.

Now something dawned on me and I got to thinking which led me to the question I'm about to ask -- it is a bit of a side topic I suppose, but at least somewhat related to the topic.

Why do you get rivalry points for turning down a romance?

This I agree with. You shouldn't actually get Rivalry points or friendship points for flirting with someone. You just..shouldn't. It should be completely tied to philosphy and your actions. I'm just sick of the whole "I'm punished by being given rivalry points!" stance . You're not. Rivalry even has different combat bonuses. 

Maybe rivalry points might not have been the best named mechanic or perhapps I'm just thinking about it the wrong way. I mean sure they could get mad if you shoot them down in a less then diplomatic way -- they can even be disapointed and sad if you go about it diplomatically. But why would they take a rivalry stance because of it?

Probably because Anders is overemotional and oveeracts to the slightest bit of criticism. Its perfectly in character for him to see you turning him down as you being against him. He's clingy, jealous, possessive. Makes sense. Someone like Isabela doing the same would make no sense. 

The way I see it here is that these rivalry points is -friendship points not rivalry points -- which would be a punishment in this case. I say this due to my view that you lose friendship here rather then gain rivalry, as loosing friendship and gaining rivalry is the same thing  (as its on one scale), but instead of giving -10/-5 friendship (not even sure if there are such a thing as negative points in the game) you gain points of the opposit side instead as the effect is the same.

Ah I see your point. 

I just don't understand the obsession with a mere 15 friendship points. You'll end up maxing his friendship by the end of act 2 (hell by the end of act 1 if you get him early enough) or you can max his rivalry. Both are perfectly acceptable and neither one is "better" than the other. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[v_ware]

To some of the people on this thread and other threads on this "issue:"

Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?
Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA.
Department of Psychology, University of Georgia, Athens 30602-3013, USA.

Abstract
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8772014

There you go homophobes.

Modifié par v_ware, 21 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[HTTP 404]

well rejection is always going to put some down a notch, friend or not. Its like that in real life. but for meta-gaming purposes, its annoying, they should just give rivalry plus 5 or nothing.  I usually just take the hit (no pun intended)

also I noticed some posts about homophobia and what not, Am I wrong to think those posts are off topic?

Modifié par HTTP 404, 21 mars 2011 - 08:56 .

[randallman]

Nimpe wrote...

You don't have to be gay. But Anders is gay, and he hits on you. It's realistic. Everyone isn't going to wait for you to get romantic.

And if you flirt with someone you like, and they deny it, you're going to feel upset.

Since we want to be all 'Lets make reality corollaries' about it, I know several MEN who would react with a fist to being hit on by another man...  Not me, I'm not a redneck homophobe, but I did spend several years Mississippi where people tend to be far behind the 'times' in terms of being accepting of people who are not the same as they are. 

That being said, I don't think there is any game mechanic besides (SPOILER DELETED) which can allow you to take aggressive action against another party member for any reason, including but not limited to hitting on you?

If you want to use realism as an argument, there better be a way to react in a REAL way to the situation no matter the moral acceptability of the reaction.

--Randall

[Sad Dragon]

Ryzaki wrote...

This I agree with. You shouldn't actually get Rivalry points or friendship points for flirting with someone. You just..shouldn't. It should be completely tied to philosphy and your actions. I'm just sick of the whole "I'm punished by being given rivalry points!" stance . You're not. Rivalry even has different combat bonuses. 

Agreed, or well for the most part -- problem is I think I can see what they where going for. I mean, if i start a relationship with someone I'm probably nog going to get less friendly with the person, rather the opposit.

Then again, I have had heated arguments with a friend to the point of both of us yelling from the top of our lungs. We vented the frustration and differenced of oppinion. After the dust settled we were back to normal -- and we are good friends. So just because you disagree doen't mean you are not friends.
Although, now that i think about it, i think i read somewhere that once you hit full friendship/rivalry it stop going up and down, if this is true then it woud -- in face -- mimic the example of me and my friend.

As for if it's a big deal or not -- to me it isn't that big a deal, and the rivalry points is definetly not a problem for me. Personaly I just feel that that particular dialog tree could have been put together better. The fact that it was also during a companion quest made it a bit more anoying for me as it "wasn't optional". But then again, with all the lines of dialog that the writers had to write and all the different options for the player to choose from, some are bound not to work the way a specific person, or a few, roleplays their character.

/TSD

[Count Viceroy]

If we're discussing points and flirting. Then Isabela is much much worse than Anders. 25 friendship points. Now that's hardcore.That being said, I do agree with points not having a place in the romances.

Suppose you could just remove/add the points with the console if you really wanted to.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 mars 2011 - 09:17 .

[Ryzaki]

Sad Dragon wrote...
Agreed, or well for the most part -- problem is I think I can see what they where going for. I mean, if i start a relationship with someone I'm probably nog going to get less friendly with the person, rather the opposit.

Yeah but you and Anders aren't friends or rivals at this point. You barely know each other. so it fits a bit more. 

Then again, I have had heated arguments with a friend to the point of both of us yelling from the top of our lungs. We vented the frustration and differenced of oppinion. After the dust settled we were back to normal -- and we are good friends. So just because you disagree doen't mean you are not friends.
Although, now that i think about it, i think i read somewhere that once you hit full friendship/rivalry it stop going up and down, if this is true then it woud -- in face -- mimic the example of me and my friend.

As for if it's a big deal or not -- to me it isn't that big a deal, and the rivalry points is definetly not a problem for me. Personaly I just feel that that particular dialog tree could have been put together better. The fact that it was also during a companion quest made it a bit more anoying for me as it "wasn't optional". But then again, with all the lines of dialog that the writers had to write and all the different options for the player to choose from, some are bound not to work the way a specific person, or a few, roleplays their character.

/TSD

Indeed. The Fenris romance has a particular example of me being boggled by the choices. 

"Why yes Fenris I'm never going to demand answers about our one night stand for three years because you don't want to talk about it." <_< 

Though I do agree about the dialogue tree being put together better. The diplomatic options should've been hearts seeing as how flirty Hawke sounds to me when he's saying them. 

[Count Viceroy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Though I do agree about the dialogue tree being put together better. The diplomatic options should've been hearts seeing as how flirty Hawke sounds to me when he's saying them. 

Thats mostly down to the voice actor in my opinion. Female hawke doesn't do a good angry voice for instance, and I think she pulls off the sarcastic one much much better. She certainly doesn't come of as flirty.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 mars 2011 - 09:21 .

[PuppetSoul]

If somebody openly hits on you, you're already in the Friendship Zone, and can't lose points anymore.

/Thread

[Ryzaki]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Though I do agree about the dialogue tree being put together better. The diplomatic options should've been hearts seeing as how flirty Hawke sounds to me when he's saying them. 

Thats mostly down to the voice actor in my opinion. Female hawke doesn't do a good angry voice for instance, and I think she pulls off the sarcastic one much much better. She certainly doesn't come of as flirty.

Ah. 

I didn't play FemHawke so I thought they both sounded flirty. 

[jweath]

Nimpe wrote...

You don't have to be gay. But Anders is gay, and he hits on you. It's realistic. Everyone isn't going to wait for you to get romantic.

And if you flirt with someone you like, and they deny it, you're going to feel upset.

The problem with me is that he was not even remotely gay in Awakenings. Maybe asexual but not gay. Then again maybe Sir Pounce Alot was not an indication he was childish. Maybe the gold ear ring was a sign but I doubt it. In some respects his companion quest in Awakenings made it sound he and the woman may have been lovers at one point.

I have no problem with Isabella being bi she was in DAO. You could have a three some with her. It is just when Anders hits on you out of the blue with no obvious indication he was gay in Awakenings other than maybe sir ponce alot. It just seems strange. He was not that forward or that way at all in Awakenings.

Zevran was not a problem you could tell he was tri-sexual (try anything) from moment one. There was no surprise when his dialogue resulted in flirting. First play through I was trying to be diplomatic with him and unintentionally start a relationship with him! Again no problem from a RP perspective my character was just naive and Zev misinterperted him.

The problem is that Anders seems to change so much from Awakenings to DA2. Especially considering you meet him not long after Awakening ends if not immediately after.

[Foryou]

With Anders when he hit on you at the beggining I was like sorry i'm stright then I gained 15 rivarly and he was pissed off at me. I was like wow........ At least with Fenris it doesn't really matter.I mean i was thinking of Anders being sad. (I don't care about sexuality)

Modifié par Foryou, 21 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

So, the "solution" to avoid having to be rude to Anders is to be rude to him about different issue? This is hardly better and still doesn't really explain why people can't simply acknowledge that game fails to provide way to deal with Anders in friendly manner from beginning to end. Since well, it doesn't provide one.

How is that rude? 

  

There wasn't anything hostile about the way Hawke said "I don't want you thinking about me that way.". It's not like Hawke called him a creep and to GTFO. 

Well, like Anders points out trying to tell him what he's allowed to think is by no means subtle. It doesn't matter what tone is used to express the concept, it's the idea itself that can be taken as quite offensive, and that's exactly how Anders take it. In similar manner how i can call someone an assh-le using the sweetest tone, but it doesn't change the fact i'm calling them assh-le.

The alternative approach to "avoid" this exchange is to literally tell Anders he's "still creepy" when he explains his motives for merging with the spirit friend. This isn't exactly polite thing to tell someone either, is it?

And for the 20th time people rivalry is not a punishment. 

It's a different way of interaction. Frankly I prefer Rivalring Anders to start with. 

And also for 20th time, i don't mind nor care much about the rivalry/friendship scales.  I'd simply like an option to politely thank Anders for his advance and explain him i'm not interested. Purely for RP purposes. None of this homophobic "i don't want you to think of me like that" stuff because hey, what do i care if he fantasizes about my Hawke late at night? Different strokes for different folks.

How hard concept is that?

Modifié par tmp7704, 21 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[Caralampio]

I think they should leave all this romantic thing out of the game. There was no romance in Awakening and that was fine. These subjects are likely to offend many people one way or the other. Not everyone, not you perhaps, but many others yes.

[MPSai]

Zevran was also a pretty laid back guy, Anders is a pissy ****. Maybe that's part of his character? I mean he takes alot of stuff personally as it is. It's not like people don't get upset at rejection in real life too.

Sides now guys know how it feels for les!Sheps who couldn't have a single conversation with Jacob without sounding like a sexual predator. I kid, of course.

Modifié par MPSai, 22 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[Carfax]

v_ware wrote...

To some of the people on this thread and other threads on this "issue:"

Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?
Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA.
Department of Psychology, University of Georgia, Athens 30602-3013, USA.

Abstract
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8772014

There you go homophobes.

LOL @ junk Science  

How does one quantify homophobia, when the term itself is a misnomer?  Homophobia isn't a true phobia, but is instead a revulsion or disgust towards homosexuality.

That said, no true "homophobe" would ever take part in such a study......and having an erection does not necessarily imply sexual arousal.

Modifié par Carfax, 22 mars 2011 - 01:29 .

[Freeway911]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Freeway911 wrote...

I think Anders leans more towards the homosexual side of the coin there.

My male Hawke, not meaning to be a douche, says I don't want you thinking about me like that. Anders gets mad and I get +rival

My wifes Female Hawke says no to an advance and he is ok with that no +rival.

Honestly I think this game should have been setup like Origins where people had set sexualities and not based it on what gender Hawke is. I also don't see a problem with adding an openly gay character to the game as opposed to just bi characters if they keep to the idea of set sexuality.

Yeah but then you'd probably have gay people upset because they wouldn't have anyone to romance.

That isn't true in DAO Leliana and Zevran could be romanced by either. Morrigan and Alistair were straight and Lel and Zev were bi.

[Seblun]

Yea I don't like the fact that everyone is bi... seems phony.

[sonofalich]

Seblun wrote...

Yea I don't like the fact that everyone is bi... seems phony.

i know exactly what you mean. it's like BioWare tried to appease the college frat boys with lesbians while luring in some of the gay community.

Modifié par sonofalich, 22 mars 2011 - 01:25 .