546 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaos_1001]

sonofalich wrote...

Seblun wrote...

Yea I don't like the fact that everyone is bi... seems phony.

i know exactly what you mean. it's like BioWare tried to appease the college frat boys with lesbians while luring in some of the gay community.

I honestly believe that isnt really the case. For starts , Sebastion is not gay or even bi curious. He is 100% heterosexual.  As for everone else, I believe they were "more open minded"  and the reactions of the player's choice of dialogue with these character companions has / had a major influence on their response to the main character. The only two characters that I personally saw as "very open in their thinking"  from the start of even meeting the main character, were Isabella and Anders. The rest you had to work at it .

[Medhia Nox]

*sigh* Sebastian - the good ones are always straight.

[AloraKast]

DSerpa wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

 He wasn't even remotely gay in Awakening, now you can't even avoid flirting with him while trying to make friends?

.

Anders wasnt gay in Awakening? I kept waiting for the option to tell him to whip it out or bend me over in Awakening.  If you had no idea that he was at least bi-curious in Awakening then you sir have not been around many homosexual persons at all.

Wait, what?

HAHAHAHA... OMG! I TOTALLY forgot how hilarious situations abound when you put Anders together with Oghren!!! OMG, good times, those! *wipes away tears*

But really, reading those interactions reminded me just how very different Awakening Anders that we initiatlly met is from the DA2 Anders... *sigh* O, wherefore art thou Awakening Anders? You were THE best!

Really, they should have just made a new character instead of changing our beloved Anders so... well, drastically.

Man, I really gotta immerse myself in Origins and Awakenings again...

[PoisonDagger]

I kind of understand what you mean, i am trying to become friends with anders and manage to feel straight on a game...and this is for the purpose of getting a spell that is locked by friendship..

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

tmp7704 wrote...

Trying to dictate someone how they should or should not think isn't objectionable? Hmm. As you note yourself, Anders does get upset about it so it appears it's something that can be taken badly, especially by a sensitive person. So i don't really get why there can't be a more polite way for Hawke to express himself, especially when other conversations cover three different ways to handle things.

If I'm not going to be involved with someone, it's probably best for that person to stop thinking of me as a potential romantic partner. I don't think it's all that healthy to pine over someone you can't have, so I don't think it's wrong to tell someone to stop thinking of you that way.

And anything can be taken badly. If you haven't figured that out, congratulations on being surrounded by thick-skinned people. And I do mean that. I wish that more of the people around me were thick-skinned. I know some people who are unreasonable sensitive. Anders, I wouldn't say is completely unreasonable, but he is quite sensative. He clearly has a fragile ego, so he reacts badly to being turned down; I think the same would apply no matter how gently you turned him down (though I'm inclined to think he's the sort who would take an overly soft rejection as playing hard-to-get).

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

"Imagine my even greater surprise when, after this, my only response options are two choices to flirt back with him (heart icons), or an option to just shoot him down flat. And let me tell you, if you don't return Anders' advances, apparently he's not the kind of guy that handles rejection well. You either flirt back with him, or you're looking at an immediate 10-15 Rivalry points right off the bat.

In the end, I did the only thing I could. I ****d myself out for Friendship points. I'm a Friendship point ****. I assume that at this point, I've degraded my Hawke's self-esteem so much that he'd **** a god damned pineapple if he thought he'd get Friendship points out of it.So, if you haven't reached this part in the game yet, prepare yourself. Anders gets what Anders wants."

You can't make everyone happy all the time. Bending over backwards (or forwards, for that matter) to please everyone doesn't always make people like you. If your Hawke was really so much of a pushover that he tried to agree with everyone, I don't think his self-esteem was particularly high in the first place.

There's also an option when playing lady!Hawke that makes me think Anders is something of a dominant personality. If you are playing a female character, you can initiate flirtation with Anders (I don't know if guys can do this; I haven't heard about it and I haven't noticed it in videos and screencaps, though I haven't specifically looked). If you initiate flirtation, he immediately starts talking about how it won't work and he could hurt you. If you continue flirting with him, you get +5 friendship in the end. On the other hand, if you skip the first option to flirt, he will come onto you right afterward. If you go along with the flirtation here, you get +10 friendship. I think Anders wants to be the one to initiate flirtation and he's slightly put off when the other party initiates it, which, to me, indicates that he's a little controlling. So I would say that you have to be the sort to stand up to him, because, otherwise, he'll take advantage of you. You can still get him to like you without giving in to him all the time, too, it just might take slightly longer.

[DSGrant]

Is it just me or did anyone else have absolutely zero impression that Anders was gay in Awakenings? Then in DA2, he becomes a homosexual? I feel like I missed an entire DLC worth of story for him that explains what traumatic event brought him from a somewhat whimsical heterosexual Grey Warden who helped defeat the Darkspawn Architect and Brood Mother, to a psychotic homosexual Apostate terrorist that sparks the next Exulted March.

Maybe it was the loss of Sir Pouncealot that set him off?

[HTTP 404]

DSGrant wrote...

Is it just me or did anyone else have absolutely zero impression that Anders was gay in Awakenings? Then in DA2, he becomes a homosexual? I feel like I missed an entire DLC worth of story for him that explains what traumatic event brought him from a somewhat whimsical heterosexual Grey Warden who helped defeat the Darkspawn Architect and Brood Mother, to a psychotic homosexual Apostate terrorist that sparks the next Exulted March.

Maybe it was the loss of Sir Pouncealot that set him off?

Justice is the one thats gay, he's the one that was in a man in Awakenings afterall.  kidding.

honestly, i think it has a little bit to do with Bioware filling in the gay relationship demand. Overall, there isnt much choice in LIs, I kind of wish there were non companion LIs but alas only people who fight are the only ones worthy of love.

[Blacklash93]

DSerpa wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

 He wasn't even remotely gay in Awakening, now you can't even avoid flirting with him while trying to make friends?

.

Anders wasnt gay in Awakening? I kept waiting for the option to tell him to whip it out or bend me over in Awakening.  If you had no idea that he was at least bi-curious in Awakening then you sir have not been around many homosexual persons at all.

Wait, what?

So what? Rape isn't a very attractive thought to say the least, no matter who it's from.

DSGrant wrote...

Is it just me or did anyone else have absolutely zero impression that Anders was gay in Awakenings? Then in DA2, he becomes a homosexual? I feel like I missed an entire DLC worth of story for him that explains what traumatic event brought him from a somewhat whimsical heterosexual Grey Warden who helped defeat the Darkspawn Architect and Brood Mother, to a psychotic homosexual Apostate terrorist that sparks the next Exulted March.

Maybe it was the loss of Sir Pouncealot that set him off?

He's not gay. He's bi. There's a difference.

And he's always been bi, canonically. He had a relationship with a man even before Awakening.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[Ryzaki]

tmp7704 wrote...
You w
Well, like Anders points out trying to tell him what he's allowed to think is by no means subtle. It doesn't matter what tone is used to express the concept, it's the idea itself that can be taken as quite offensive, and that's exactly how Anders take it. In similar manner how i can call someone an assh-le using the sweetest tone, but it doesn't change the fact i'm calling them assh-le.

The alternative approach to "avoid" this exchange is to literally tell Anders he's "still creepy" when he explains his motives for merging with the spirit friend. This isn't exactly polite thing to tell someone either, is it?

No it's not. You can also call him out on merging with a spirit in the first place (which to me seems to be the right thing to do. Merging with spirits is a foolhardy thing to do.) nothing rude about that. 

And also for 20th time, i don't mind nor care much about the rivalry/friendship scales.  I'd simply like an option to politely thank Anders for his advance and explain him i'm not interested. Purely for RP purposes. None of this homophobic "i don't want you to think of me like that" stuff because hey, what do i care if he fantasizes about my Hawke late at night? Different strokes for different folks.

How hard concept is that?

The concept isn't hard. But honestly there was nothing homophobic about that response to me. So..really you got what you asked for. Which is what baffles me.  

I've said the same thing to several men that hit on me. Am I heterophobic? 

But if that's too "homophobic" for you go ahead and pick the heart icon and later when he mentions being dangerous pick the broken heart one. That's not "homophobic" at all. (I hope that's not restricted to females that would suck). 

I hate how that word is thrown around willy nilly. 

I understand what you're asking for really I do. And i understand why you're not satisfied with the response you can choose. 

That doesn't make said response homophobic. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 mars 2011 - 05:08 .

[BiowarEA]

[tmp7704]

Crossroads_Wanderer wrote...

If I'm not going to be involved with someone, it's probably best for that person to stop thinking of me as a potential romantic partner. I don't think it's all that healthy to pine over someone you can't have, so I don't think it's wrong to tell someone to stop thinking of you that way.

"I think you'd look good in green"
"I want you to wear green"

do you see the difference? What you tell Anders is the latter. Your justification provided here is the former.

And anything can be taken badly.

Yes, but that's reason to put more thought in how we say things, rather than excuse for lack of such thought.

[AngelicMachinery]

BiowarEA wrote...

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
The alternative approach to "avoid" this exchange is to literally tell Anders he's "still creepy" when he explains his motives for merging with the spirit friend. This isn't exactly polite thing to tell someone either, is it?

No it's not. You can also call him out on merging with a spirit in the first place (which to me seems to be the right thing to do. Merging with spirits is a foolhardy thing to do.) nothing rude about that.

Out of curiosity, do you tell people you've just recently met they're fat, ugly, creepy, dumb etc when they didn't ask you about your opinion on these matters? Would you consider such behaviour also perfectly polite?

I don't really get why that's supposed to be the right thing to do in this situation -- the merging is something that's already done, he can't undo it and he also makes it rather clear he in part regrets this decision so it's not like he needs to be chided for it, especially by pretty much a stranger. To tell him he's creepy because of it... what for?

The concept isn't hard. But honestly there was nothing homophobic about that response to me. So..really you got what you asked for. Which is what baffles me.  

There was nothing homophobic or rude in the provided response to you, but since we rather clearly disagree on how we view this response (and Anders appears to share my view rather than yours) no, i did not get what i'm asking for.

I've said the same thing to several men that hit on me. Am I heterophobic? 

I don't know, are you?   I think this particular response can be seen as such (because it's worded in way that's unnecessarily forceful/demanding and that can stem from fear) but that's without knowing what reasoning leads you to saying it -- and that reasoning can actually be very well just be act of consideration or whatever, like the one Crossroad_Wanderer provides in the other part of the thread.

But if that's too "homophobic" for you go ahead and pick the heart icon and later when he mentions being dangerous pick the broken heart one. That's not "homophobic" at all. (I hope that's not restricted to females that would suck). 

Hmm i did pick the middle hear icon but didn't get any broken heart option afterwards and it's already act 3 in game so unless it happens latter this may be just for ladies. Then again, my Hawke been sleeping around  so maybe Anders figured out on his own this ship has already sailed.

[Ryzaki]

What the hell did I type this giant response out for?

Suffice to say tmp me and you are very different people. 

No need to even bother with walls of text because I can already see we'll just end up talking circles around each other. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 mars 2011 - 06:42 .

[astranger_90]

DSerpa wrote...

I have no idea where you got the idea of rape from, but my point was that those who thought Anders was gay in Awakening should actually read through his dialogue.

First allow me to say: Jesus Christ, this thread again?

Secondly, I actually never thought Anders was gay. I thought he was bi pretty much straight down the middle, and I have read his dialog, I don't think he ever left my party in Awakening.

[moilami]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

BiowarEA wrote...

ROFL. That ninja happened with DA rouge.

[moilami]

DSerpa wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

DSerpa wrote...


Wait, what?

So what? Rape isn't a very attractive thought to say the least, no matter who it's from.

Wait, what!?!?!?

I have no idea where you got the idea of rape from, but my point was that those who thought Anders was gay in Awakening should actually read through his dialogue.

Maybe he had not come out of the closet in DA? Maybe Justice made him gay?

[moilami]

colex91 wrote...

You are getting offended at a in-game gay male hitting on you.















lol.

Pot meets cattle again.

A book could be written of stuff what offends females in gaming.

[moilami]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ErebUs890 wrote...
I actually agree. I really like Anders as a character, but they didn't really give you much option, like when Anders asks "Am I making you uncomfortable?" your only options are

Rudely say yes and ****** him off
Hit on him
Hit on him

There really should have been a more open minded answer about it.

The option isn't really mean though. Hawke pretty much goes 'uh...stop." Anders takes it as more harsh than it really is. And Anders is overemotional. 

Maybe I'm insensitive or something but what Hawke said didn't sound mean. 

Here's the choice in question. 

Yeah I know my Hawke looks horrible. I threw him together in boredom. 

Hawke sounds soooo homophobic. *rolls eyes* 

And here's how to avoid that in the first place. 

I mean sounding supportive and kind making someone clingy and eager for affection latch on to you? You don't say? 

Izzy doesn't lose friendship because Izzy as she says is used to rejection. Anders on the other hand...

HAHAHAHA,


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,


I don't believe Izzy is used to being rejected. I think she have no experience of that.

[Adhin]

Anders thing didn't bug me, the random non-flirt lines that are obviously writen for a bi/gay hawke can be a bit irritating, though I can only think of 1 instance that really was glaring. At the Blooming Rose theres this dude-elf who says he'll give it up for free. If you take anything but aggressive options in the questline hes introduced in, you come off as wanting man-parts.

I figured thats why the HEART icon was introduced, for flirting. It should of been used and had lines like that only via the flirt icon. Getting it for being 'good/persuasive' or sarcastic/charming is a little irritating. That's part of the issue I had with Zevran, I wanted to joke and be buds, but you had to be an ass to shut down his romance. Wasn't a big deal but they had friendship option really.

Which I've noticed in recent years, though haven't had that issue with DA2 since all there conversations are ultimately quest related or story progression. Nothing is just you asking questions when you want so theres no glaring wall of 'I turned them down so I get no more conversations'.

[Count Viceroy]

BiowarEA wrote...

Hilarious.

[AloraKast]

DSerpa wrote...

Sorry, link was messed up. Read through Anders's dialogue in Awakening with all of the companions. Not just Oghren.

Nah, your link was right and yes, I read the entire Awakening Anders companion banter... some really good and fun times there. Oghren's simply made me LOL the most.

But I absolutely get what you are saying and agree with you 100%; the Anders we met in Awakening gave no impression that he was homosexual. On the contrary, if anything the Awakening Anders was a solid heterosexual (see his banter with Velanna if you'd like to see more backup for that). Even his character quote featured on Dragon Age Wikia is:

"All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

That's why I was suggesting they create a new character for DA2 if this is the direction they wanted to take this character, because the DA2 Anders IS different from the Awakening Anders and some of those changes you cannot simply explain away by the fact that Awakening Anders bonded with Justice and the end result is DA2 Anders.

Bioware even went back and retconned Anders's history before Awakening, changing his orientation by revealing who was his "first" (thou in that context, I am not sure whether it was his first homosexual experience or his first sexual experience period).

Though really I choose to believe that Anders is bi, thus reconciling his behaviour in Awakening and in DA2.

But as I think on this, I really don't believe Anders thinks of himself in any of those categories, as in his own words:

"I've always believed people fall in love with a whole person, not just a body. Why would you shy away from loving someone just because they're like you?"

Modifié par AloraKast, 22 mars 2011 - 12:54 .