35 réponses à ce sujet

[Zabaniya]

Artillis22 wrote...

TG-Nalfen wrote...

Cunning as a defensive stat fails for anything but a Rogue; even on a rogue if you play on hard or nightmare it will not save your ass on anything except normal enemies and critters.

Don't bother investing into defense runes too much. Invest in Prosperity Runes till end game then Valliance rune + resist or Armor in the end game.

I tried raising defense high enough to reach 80% avoidance vs bosses, only to find out it's not possible:
It caps at 80/68/48% vs Normal/Lieutenants/Boss no matter how high you get.

Not true my first rogue (on normal difficulty) was a duelist assasins build and with talents and defence based auras from mage in group I had 80% vs normal 80% vs leuitenants and like 72% versus bosses for dodge chance with a base cunning I think around 31.  I was also sporting defence runes and gear, and if I got close enough to my tank for the defence bonus from their short range aura it was even higher.  My rogue was tanking bosses just fine on normal difficulty with thrown down the gauntlet.  And yes even the final bosses melle based special attacks missed at times.

Though this was on normal difficulty not sure how it would fly on harder settings.  My next rogue I'm going to try it again going to go with another duelist assasin build with isabella and verric and anders in my group, heavy rogue build on hard difficulty.  I'm not a fan of nightmare, it's not that I can't do nightmae with some class builds I just hate when fights take 3 hours to finish (yes im exagerating a little). :innocent:

But regaurdless the dodge ratios I think should be the same on any difficulty.  Difficulty doesn't affect the amount of dodge bonus you get from stats and equipment versus level of the monster since monsters levels still are built the same accross difficultys they just hit harder have more life and such.

On Nightmare, it's 80% against normal, 68% against lieutenants and 48% against bosses.  Seeing as how the most threatening things to your character are abilities and spells (which can't be dodged for the most part, anyways), I personally think it's dumb to place a hard cap below 90-100% on defense.

Modifié par Zabaniya, 20 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[Sabresandiego]

80% cap on defense is fine, but you really need constitution to survive huge AOE explosions like saarebas lightning. If defense wasnt capped at 80% youd have nearly invulnerable characters running around.

[Brutus2]

Does anyone know the exact effect of items that have the bonus to lockpicking and if they stack? I just finished a rogue Hawke game and raised his cunning to 40 just for locks/traps. It would have been nice to have lower cunning and carry a couple lock picking items.

Next playthrough will be mage Hawke. I guess I should take a rogue along for lockpicking. Varric could do 40 cunning since he doesn't need DEX for weapon requirements. I would prefer to use Isabella but don't really want to waste 40 points on cunning for her.

[Arkalezth]

I heard it acts as 150% Cunning, so you should be able to leave it at 27 and open everything with such an item. I haven't tested it, though. And you would need an item with a bonus to traps too.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 21 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[naughty99]

Brutus2 wrote...

Does anyone know the exact effect of items that have the bonus to lockpicking and if they stack? I just finished a rogue Hawke game and raised his cunning to 40 just for locks/traps. It would have been nice to have lower cunning and carry a couple lock picking items.

Next playthrough will be mage Hawke. I guess I should take a rogue along for lockpicking. Varric could do 40 cunning since he doesn't need DEX for weapon requirements. I would prefer to use Isabella but don't really want to waste 40 points on cunning for her.

My understanding is that the lockpick buff items boost by 1.5 x your cunning score.

If so, in order to lockpick Master locks (effective cunning 41) you only need the following cunning scores

• with 1 lockpick buff item = 27
• with 2 lockpick buff items = 18
• with 3 lockpick buff items = 12

[FrozenDawn]

I also got a duelist with very high defense and cunning, seems useful to me, at least all the tiny mobs cant aut-stagger me all the time.
I also saw some Assassins miss me. For me it looks like a bug though- my Vendetta's and backstabs go amiss quite often with me havin 100 % attack :-/

[Novadove]

ultimate build for a rogue is still cun based. not dex. if you are doing dex based and find cun is useless, maybe you should replay again with a cun rogue.

i am lazy to explain why but just try it out yourself. Of cos, i take it that you guys know what talent to go with.

full stealth is a must AND cun rogue is not an auto-attack mode rogue =)

edit: cun def is only a bonus. the real deal is to pump your cun crit damage to the ceiling with 100% crit chance.
dance around with backstab. run away, rinse and repeat.

Modifié par Novadove, 21 mars 2011 - 06:46 .

[Zhel_Ryn]

While I won't argue against a pure str/con build tank (and would never suggest a pure cun tank), a str/cun/con hybrid is perfectly viable. If you're directly controlling the tank that is. You're likely dodging the big hits anyway, and con high enough to wear the Champion set is more than enough to survive a number of those big hits to boot. A CUN tank shines best surrounded by a mob, with no allies giving any help. Add to that, if you stack critical chance, their damage is not far behind versus a build that went purely dps talents.

My 2h tank had 36 CUN, ~80/75/55 defense, reliably saw 3-4k damage on abilities, and had no issue running through nightmare. Stonewall and Turn the Blade were the only defense talents I took and needed for this build Fenris would be pretty up there with that 20 def/crit buff he gets, if you don't mind controlling him primarily.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Did some theorycrafting with the help of makers sigh and attribute redistribution.  My goal was to figure out how much dexterity vs cunning for the maximum damage rogue.  My assumptions were that this was end game with end game gear, and that about half of my damage would come from special attacks that always hit and always crit.  I wrote a javascript function to calculate the optimal spread of points.

The short answer is this:


Put all points into dexterity until you reach 100% hit chance and 100% crit chance then put the rest into cunning.


It's up to you whether you're satisfied with 100% hit vs normals or if you want 100% hit vs lieutenants or bosses.  I would personally recommend pumping dex until 100% hit vs Lieutenants.

If you don't do any auto-attack damage, and pretty much just want big special attack criticals, then you can safely put everything into cunning (besides the min for dex to equip weapons)

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 21 mars 2011 - 08:40 .

[Tomomi]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Did some theorycrafting with the help of makers sigh and attribute redistribution.  My goal was to figure out how much dexterity vs cunning for the maximum damage rogue.  My assumptions were that this was end game with end game gear, and that about half of my damage would come from special attacks that always hit and always crit.  I wrote a javascript function to calculate the optimal spread of points.

The short answer is this:


Put all points into dexterity until you reach 100% hit chance and 100% crit chance then put the rest into cunning.


It's up to you whether you're satisfied with 100% hit vs normals or if you want 100% hit vs lieutenants or bosses.  I would personally recommend pumping dex until 100% hit vs Lieutenants.

If you don't do any auto-attack damage, and pretty much just want big special attack criticals, then you can safely put everything into cunning (besides the min for dex to equip weapons)

I beg your pardon.  Unless I miss something, this is really not an "end game" game.  Like with MMORPGs, take any, WoW, FF, Warhammer, Everquest, etc...  While it may be fun (give or take) to level up.  But the real game starts when you are max level, raid, boss fight, etc... While leveling you don't even care about gear, because in the next few hours you will get a higher level piece anyway.  Just wing it.

But in this type of game, the entire leveling from 1 to max is the whole game.  "End game" in DA2 is "game over".  So I say it is best to actually deal with the whole adventure from Act 1 to Act 3.  But in spite of all these, I know the complexity belongs to the later part of the game.  Just that we aren't paying $60 and do all these quests just to work for the final boss fight.

Back on topic! Last week or so, I first got Isabella, while playing on normal mode, I thought ... hmmm maybe I don't have to drag Aveline everywhere.  Maybe Isabella can do some rogue tanking with her personal talent.  I did try to max Cunning out just to prove a point.  The result was average at best, and this is on Normal mode.  On some fight against non-human, like a golem, having Isabella tank is no tank at all.  She gets hit so hard with max cunning (and some Con thrown in) and not able to keep hate due to her low damage (since I spent most of the points in survival and CC).  It became a kite fest.  Not that kiting is wrong, but that defeats the purpose of having Isabella's Max Cunning build.

Correct me if I am wrong, rogues in DA2 aren't meant to be out there face to face against people.  So Max DEX is the way to go (well not really everything into Dex, but do give some Willpower and Constitution to be realistic).  Do a ton of damage, run away, and sneak behind to do another ton of damage.  But honestly, when will DEX hit 100% Attack and crit, at what level?  And how gimped will HP and Stamina be?  I only go Max Dex just for testing purpose, so far.  

Modifié par Tomomi, 22 mars 2011 - 02:13 .