94 réponses à ce sujet

[Moondoggie]

So Morrigan was only mentioned once in passing and nothing was said
about her god baby. We had a DLC that was supposed to give closure but
instead we got "Hey morrigan where is the kid?"  "i'm not telling you" 
"that';s cool what are you plans?"  "i'm not telling you"  "soo what is
Flemeth?"  "i can't say"  "Where are you going now?"  "A place to get
power"  "for what?"  "I can't say"  

And i figure "oh okay so
they'll continue this in DA2 somehow" but none of it was ever mentioned
again. Are we just forgetting that whole major plot point now? Do they want to do it in more DLC? In DA3? Are they ever going to explain what the bloody hell that was all about?

[XX-Pyro]

The Old God Baby isn't even in everyone's game, therefore (unless they create a 'canon' Warden) they won't be able to create the sort of closure your looking for in that story.

As for Morrigan, they said multiple times she wasn't going to appear in DA2, however she is still out there so I expect DA3 to tie back in with her story.

[TheBlackBaron]

I'm with you, mate, but prepare to be mobbed by people exclaiming how they can't possibly do anything but bury and forget the OGB and the Warden ever happened because of such-and-such and so-and-so.

Not so much that I was expecting it to play any real role in DA2, but it needs to be answered in DA3.

[Taleroth]

It's been stated for a while that she's not involved in DA2. It's not forgotten, it's just not continued here.

[Moondoggie]

XX-Pyro wrote...

The Old God Baby isn't even in everyone's game, therefore (unless they create a 'canon' Warden) they won't be able to create the sort of closure your looking for in that story.

As for Morrigan, they said multiple times she wasn't going to appear in DA2, however she is still out there so I expect DA3 to tie back in with her story.

It's basically canon even if you refuse the ritual she either gets knocked up from a relationship with the warden or by some other means from what i can gather.

[upsettingshorts]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I'm with you, mate, but prepare to be mobbed by people exclaiming how they can't possibly do anything but bury and forget the OGB and the Warden ever happened because of such-and-such and so-and-so.

Not so much that I was expecting it to play any real role in DA2, but it needs to be answered in DA3.

There is a middle ground between "OMG WE MUST KNOW NOW ITS SO IMPORTANT" and  "IT DIDNT HAPPEN IN MY GAME SO IT CANT BE RELEVANT"

I think the middle ground is they'll get around to it, but the fact DA2 had little apparently to do with it, except for the whole "change is coming" thing - isn't indicative of an endorsement of either point of view.

However, just as with the Virmire survivor fans on the Mass Effect boards we as players all have our expectations, but one isn't any more important than the other.  Ultimately we don't get to decide what decisions are important, they do.

*Still wants to play SimGwaren with his Warden who got Loghain's lands as a boon*

Moondoggie wrote...

It's basically canon even if you refuse the ritual she either gets knocked up from a relationship with the warden or by some other means from what i can gather.

She can have a child, but in only one specific scenario - undertaking the Dark Ritual - does that child have the soul of an Old God.  Theoretically.  Morrigan could be wrong, at least from where I sit.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 mars 2011 - 01:52 .

[PirateT138]

God baby is roughly 6 by the end of the game (the end of the SEVEN years, not 10).

Six year olds don't change the fate of the world. Morrigan left to prepare into the Eluvian, that's what you can assume she, and possibly your Warden (your Warden has disappeared somewhere at the end of DA2, odds are it was into the Eluvian), are doing just that, setting OGB up to be a major player in the course of events in DA3.

[Taleroth]

Moondoggie wrote...

It's basically canon even if you refuse the ritual she either gets knocked up from a relationship with the warden or by some other means from what i can gather.

You gather wrong.

[Freeway911]

DA:O was the story of The Warden and his companions Morrigan being one of them.

DA2 was the story of the Hawke family.

While I really do want to know what happened when my warden went through the mirror with her. That story in itself could be a great one depending on how it is written. I knew it wasn't going to happen in DA2 based on the story line. I would like to see that resolved in DA3 but there are so many ways the story could go after the end of DA2 we may have to wait longer.

[Hrodric]

In my imagination, here is how it plays out: The relationship of the god-baby and the Warden is much like Beowulf and his dragon-baby.

I see it as the Warden--after enjoying those stolen years of plenty-- having to sacrifice his life to make up for that massive error in judgment those many years earlier. And ultimately, it becomes a morality play--Greek-style: no victory comes without a price. He who thought had cheated the system (a.k.a. "the gods") ended up having to pay an even steeper price--along with other innocents--due to his (momentary?) selfishness, weakness, and hubris.

Come on, Bioware... indulge me a little?

[TJPags]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I'm with you, mate, but prepare to be mobbed by people exclaiming how they can't possibly do anything but bury and forget the OGB and the Warden ever happened because of such-and-such and so-and-so.

Not so much that I was expecting it to play any real role in DA2, but it needs to be answered in DA3.

Nah.

I used to say that.

But considering we didn't really see what we think we saw when some of use thought they killed Leliana, I suppose it's also possible we didn't say what we thought we said when we tried to tell Morrigan no about the DR.

So, yea, bring on the OGB in DA3!!!

[TJPags]

PirateT138 wrote...

God baby is roughly 6 by the end of the game (the end of the SEVEN years, not 10).

Six year olds don't change the fate of the world. Morrigan left to prepare into the Eluvian, that's what you can assume she, and possibly your Warden (your Warden has disappeared somewhere at the end of DA2, odds are it was into the Eluvian), are doing just that, setting OGB up to be a major player in the course of events in DA3.

No, WHen Cassanra walked out of the interogation room, it was 10 years from the start of the game  - she had been interrogating Varric 3 years after the fiasco at the end.

So OGB is about 9.  Good age for getting up to mischief. 

[Icy Magebane]

While the devs have said that the OGB isn't cannon, I don't exactly trust them to stick with that.

The only other thing I wanted to mention is that if the Warden didn't allow Morrigan to do the DR, the OGB couldn't exist.  Somebody died killing the Archdemon, which would not have happened if there was a child for its soul to escape into.  So while she could have gotten knocked up at some point, it would just be a normal child.

[gombie]

me neither, they can make the story whatever way they wish, they brought back leliana and such, and theres alot of things you could have done in DA:O that contradicts DA2. im sure there could be another explaination for the OGB. for example morrigan could have went to find a OG and get it some other way.

i think the OGB will come back as an important figure/npc. who will play a major role, the whole build up and creation of this morrigan thing seems too important. However, if DA3 is in a close timeline to DA2 then the OGB would be still too young (in human terms). They will just bring it back when they feel the need to.

[Baelyn]

Icy Magebane wrote...

While the devs have said that the OGB isn't cannon, I don't exactly trust them to stick with that.

The only other thing I wanted to mention is that if the Warden didn't allow Morrigan to do the DR, the OGB couldn't exist.  Somebody died killing the Archdemon, which would not have happened if there was a child for its soul to escape into.  So while she could have gotten knocked up at some point, it would just be a normal child.

This does not change the fact that it would be very easy to write in how Morrigan did get the soul of an old god into a baby. Thus being the effect of your choice in DA:O would simply be whether the OGB was your child or whether Morrigan got it through alternate means (possibly the Architect?)

[TheBlackBaron]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
There is a middle ground between "OMG WE MUST KNOW NOW ITS SO IMPORTANT" and  "IT DIDNT HAPPEN IN MY GAME SO IT CANT BE RELEVANT"

I think the middle ground is they'll get around to it, but the fact DA2 had little apparently to do with it, except for the whole "change is coming" thing - isn't indicative of an endorsement of either point of view.

Which is why I said I didn't expect too much on that front from DA2. But - and I'll qualify this with "imo", if I must - that's way too big of a loose end to just leave permanently hanging. Especially when the ending of WH, which was considered to be in many ways just a glorified plug to buy DA2, is taken into account. 

I don't forsee the OGB playing a plot-critical role in a future DA game, but I think it'd be entirely justified to have him playing a plot-important role. 

*Still wants to play SimGwaren with his Warden who got Loghain's lands as a boon*

That's the next Facebook tie-in. 

[NRO TYN]

I realy 4/C the OGB just being a realy badass mage along with morrigan, i dont think he'll be playable for ppl

[Merced652]

Her story beyond DAO is written with crayons.

[Icy Magebane]

Baelyn wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

While the devs have said that the OGB isn't cannon, I don't exactly trust them to stick with that.

The only other thing I wanted to mention is that if the Warden didn't allow Morrigan to do the DR, the OGB couldn't exist.  Somebody died killing the Archdemon, which would not have happened if there was a child for its soul to escape into.  So while she could have gotten knocked up at some point, it would just be a normal child.

This does not change the fact that it would be very easy to write in how Morrigan did get the soul of an old god into a baby. Thus being the effect of your choice in DA:O would simply be whether the OGB was your child or whether Morrigan got it through alternate means (possibly the Architect?)

Okay, so where did the Architect get an Old God soul from?  Are you saying that the Architect (who I killed btw), somehow had access to an Old God so soon after a Blight?  Doesn't it take the darkspawn like... a long time to find each one?

It's far more likely that they'll simply forget the idea or make it cannon with or without our approval.  Whatever fits the story.  Hell, they might even retcon it so that somebody died AND the Ritual worked... I'm only stating the lore that we've been given and why the OGB without DR is impossible unless they decide to change things around.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 mars 2011 - 03:29 .

[Rafe34]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

While the devs have said that the OGB isn't cannon, I don't exactly trust them to stick with that.

The only other thing I wanted to mention is that if the Warden didn't allow Morrigan to do the DR, the OGB couldn't exist.  Somebody died killing the Archdemon, which would not have happened if there was a child for its soul to escape into.  So while she could have gotten knocked up at some point, it would just be a normal child.

This does not change the fact that it would be very easy to write in how Morrigan did get the soul of an old god into a baby. Thus being the effect of your choice in DA:O would simply be whether the OGB was your child or whether Morrigan got it through alternate means (possibly the Architect?)

Okay, so where did the Architect get an Old God soul from?  Are you saying that the Architect (who I killed btw), somehow had access to an Old God so soon after a Blight?  Doesn't it take the darkspawn like... a long time to find each one?

It's far more likely that they'll simply forget the idea or make it cannon with or without our approval.  Whatever fits the story.  Hell, they might even retcon it so that somebody died AND the Ritual worked... I'm only stating the lore that we've been given and why the OGB without DR is impossible unless they decide to change things around.

I must point out that we were only told by Morrigan that the Ritual would save someone from dying- not that she couldn't make the Ritual even if someone still died.

It's a crappy twist, but DA2 was so far down on the list of standard BW games, that I wouldn't be surprised by something like that.

[Icy Magebane]

@Rafe34 - So Morrigan was lying, or at least only telling half the story... hm... sounds good. Although I don't see any point in even bringing up the Ritual if she could do it without a Grey Warden's aid. Seems to me that she'd just do it and let you, Alistair, or whoever die, especially if you weren't an LI. But this is a good way to handwave the plot a bit and still come of as somewhat plausible.

[Hay Julay]

Well there is (supposedly) another blight happening in the Anderfels. So maybe Morrigan can get knocked up there if we turned her down in DA:O

Although if my Warden can miraculously rise from the dead and go missing, then I think the OGB can become canon.

[upsettingshorts]

Merced652 wrote...

Her story beyond DAO is written with crayons.

Seems like that would be hard to erase.  I'd say it's written in pencil.

[Rafe34]

Icy Magebane wrote...

@Rafe34 - So Morrigan was lying, or at least only telling half the story... hm... sounds good. Although I don't see any point in even bringing up the Ritual if she could do it without a Grey Warden's aid. Seems to me that she'd just do it and let you, Alistair, or whoever die, especially if you weren't an LI. But this is a good way to handwave the plot a bit and still come of as somewhat plausible.

That's why the scene pre-Dark Ritual is SO important to Morrigan's motivations- the one between her and Alistair. I just really can't believe that was cut from the game. The link below details it, if you somehow have missed it.

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

And if neither Alistair or the Warden are LIs- there's always Riordan/Loghain. Morrigan could easily have seduced either one without letting them know exactly what was going on, and without any knowledge on the Warden's part. 

Modifié par Rafe34, 19 mars 2011 - 03:52 .

[Baelyn]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

While the devs have said that the OGB isn't cannon, I don't exactly trust them to stick with that.

The only other thing I wanted to mention is that if the Warden didn't allow Morrigan to do the DR, the OGB couldn't exist.  Somebody died killing the Archdemon, which would not have happened if there was a child for its soul to escape into.  So while she could have gotten knocked up at some point, it would just be a normal child.

This does not change the fact that it would be very easy to write in how Morrigan did get the soul of an old god into a baby. Thus being the effect of your choice in DA:O would simply be whether the OGB was your child or whether Morrigan got it through alternate means (possibly the Architect?)

Okay, so where did the Architect get an Old God soul from?  Are you saying that the Architect (who I killed btw), somehow had access to an Old God so soon after a Blight?  Doesn't it take the darkspawn like... a long time to find each one?

It's far more likely that they'll simply forget the idea or make it cannon with or without our approval.  Whatever fits the story.  Hell, they might even retcon it so that somebody died AND the Ritual worked... I'm only stating the lore that we've been given and why the OGB without DR is impossible unless they decide to change things around.

Im not saying anything definite about the Architect, it was merely me throwing in a theory as it was placed in parenthesis  and with a "possibly" stuck in front of it.

But to play along, the Architect is the one who started the first blight by unleashing Urthemiel. It is possible that he has devised a way to find the old gods as he was seeking them out to further his research. And yes it takes your typical unintelligent moaning darkspawn a very long time to find an archdemon but the Architect is hardly your typical darkspawn. Also it is purely chance that darkspawn even find the archdemons (this is quoted in a conversation somewhere in DA:O) so it is possible for them to find one sooner but unlikely.

It doesn't matter whether you killed him or not since Morrigan would have (for it to fit with both stories, the OGB being the child of the warden) to have immediately sought out an old god after leaving you at the final battle. There is plenty of time between the end battle of DA:O and when you would have killed the Architect.

With this being something as big as it was portrayed as, do you really think Flemeth/Morrigan wouldn't have a backup plan if she wasn't able to convince a warden to do the "deed" with her on the night before battle?

It is entirely possible given the lore we have been given to have an old god baby. We were never told "the only way to get the soul of an old god is by doing this ritual." We simply were told that it is possible for someone with the taint to conceive a child and draw an old god's soul into it.

Yes, ultimately I agree with you, they will do what they want to do regardless of our choice if they feel like thats where the story should go. But I feel like we should give them the benefit of the doubt before saying that Bioware makes our choices null and void without explanation when the only evidence we have of this is Dragon Age is Leliana. And that was already hinted at by Gaider in another thread implying that there is a "reason" Leliana is around and they don't feel like it is time yet to explain why or how that is.