94 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

Rafe34 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

@Rafe34 - So Morrigan was lying, or at least only telling half the story... hm... sounds good. Although I don't see any point in even bringing up the Ritual if she could do it without a Grey Warden's aid. Seems to me that she'd just do it and let you, Alistair, or whoever die, especially if you weren't an LI. But this is a good way to handwave the plot a bit and still come of as somewhat plausible.

That's why the scene pre-Dark Ritual is SO important to Morrigan's motivations- the one between her and Alistair. I just really can't believe that was cut from the game. The link below details it, if you somehow have missed it.

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

And if neither Alistair or the Warden are LIs- there's always Riordan/Loghain. Morrigan could easily have seduced either one without letting them know exactly what was going on, and without any knowledge on the Warden's part. 

Bingo.

Here ya all go.  How was there a DR if you turned down the DR?  She did it with Riordan.  End of conversation.

OGB can be canon if they wish.

[Icy Magebane]

@Rafe34 - While that was an interesting read, it's just some fan's interpretation of the characters. That has no bearing on the game itself. First off, the Warden is female. Secondly, it assumes that the PC is friends with Morrigan. That has nothing to do with the fiction, as presented by Bioware.

Heh... that response sounds harsh. I only word it that way because I am not willing to accept that interpretation as part of DA:O... hopefully this little disclaimer is enough to show I don't mean to be a jerk. XD

Again TJPags, we're kind of skipping the issue that if Ritual happens, then nobody would die from the Archdemon's death.  Is there something I'm missing, or do people not want to accept that?

Also, you sound a bit like Gaider when you say, "end of conversation."  lol... yeah they can do whatever they want, and trust me, in the end they will.  But that doesn't mean it makes sense.

Final edit:  I'm not even going to bother editing this again... forgive me if I didn't understand who "she" is... whoever Morrigan was referring to when asking Alistair about love.  My basic point, that this is not part of the story, stands.  Also, it still depends on the Warden's relationship with Morrigan.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[TJPags]

Icy Magebane wrote...

@Rafe34 - While that was an interesting read, it's just some fan's interpretation of the characters. That has no bearing on the game itself. First off, the Warden is female. Secondly, it assumes that the PC is friends with Morrigan. That has nothing to do with the fiction, as presented by Bioware.

Heh... that response sounds harsh. I only word it that way because I am not willing to accept that interpretation as part of DA:O... hopefully this little disclaimer is enough to show I don't mean to be a jerk. XD

Again TJPags, we're kind of skipping the issue that if Ritual happens, then nobody would die from the Archdemon's death.  Is there something I'm missing, or do people not want to accept that?

Also, you sound a bit like Gaider when you say, "end of conversation."  lol... yeah they can do whatever they want, and trust me, in the end they will.  But that doesn't mean it makes sense.

  I don't want to sound like DG!!!  I'm sorry. 

But to the first point - maybe the person just died from their wounds?  You did just fight a large, magical dragon, several dozen darkspawn on the roof, and all the ones you had to get through just to make it to the roof.  Is that too much of a stretch?

I mean, I think we agree, they'll do it if they want it.  I always thought the hang-up was, the ritual had to be done on the eve of the battle.  This solves that hang-up, I think.  If it's just "why did the character die?", I think dying of their wounds works, no?

[Icy Magebane]

I agree that if the OGB needs to be cannon, they will make it so. The people in this discussion have already come up with fairly plausible arguments as to how it could be set up, with only slight changes to the lore. I imagine Bioware would have similar, if not better ideas lined up if that's their intention.

So I do agree, but only if we're trying to change things (make OGB cannon). Based on what we have seen and been told, I don't think it's possible, BUT, that can be altered slightly... wth I'm just repeating myself now. You get my point I'm sure.

[ElweSingollo]

Icy Magebane wrote...


Again TJPags, we're kind of skipping the issue that if Ritual happens, then nobody would die from the Archdemon's death.  Is there something I'm missing, or do people not want to accept that?

In regards to that in isolation what does the end scene of DA2 say in regards to the warden if you make the ultimate sacrifice?

I only played through on my DR save with DA 2 and it just mentions that my warden has gone missing but my warden is most definately alive as alistair mentions her when he meets Hawke.

Is that different if you play DA 2 with a ultimate sarifice save because if it is not it would suggest that bioware basically have decided your warden never died.

[TJPags]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I agree that if the OGB needs to be cannon, they will make it so. The people in this discussion have already come up with fairly plausible arguments as to how it could be set up, with only slight changes to the lore. I imagine Bioware would have similar, if not better ideas lined up if that's their intention.

So I do agree, but only if we're trying to change things (make OGB cannon). Based on what we have seen and been told, I don't think it's possible, BUT, that can be altered slightly... wth I'm just repeating myself now. You get my point I'm sure.

Yes, I get your point.

I don't like the OGN canon thing, I won't like it if they do it, but as you said, we figured out how to do it without torturing the lore, I'm sure they can if they want.

I just wish, in general, that they wouldn't market games as reflecting choices, then ignore them and make an opion into a canon.  Doesn't matter to me how many or how few people took that option.  Really poor play on their part.

[Icy Magebane]

@TJPags - Yeah, I hear you... I think it cheapens the concept of even making these decisions in the first place.  I think it was better when they had single story games like KOTOR or Jade Empire.  You could do all kinds of crazy stuff but it wouldn't matter beyond the ending because each story was self-contained.  I think that's why they decided to take this route with DA2.  Most decisions lead you to the same inevitable conclusions, but at the same time, you can make smaller choices that are reflected in-game and may lead to cameos of one kind or another in the future.  The main story, however, is theirs, and they aren't letting us drive anymore.

ElweSingollo wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...


Again TJPags, we're kind of skipping the issue that if Ritual happens, then nobody would die from the Archdemon's death.  Is there something I'm missing, or do people not want to accept that?

In regards to that in isolation what does the end scene of DA2 say in regards to the warden if you make the ultimate sacrifice?

I only played through on my DR save with DA 2 and it just mentions that my warden has gone missing but my warden is most definately alive as alistair mentions her when he meets Hawke.

Is that different if you play DA 2 with a ultimate sarifice save because if it is not it would suggest that bioware basically have decided your warden never died.

I can't really say.  I've heard many times that dead Wardens are referred to as "missing," but I don't know if it is a glitch or what...

[Hrodric]

Rafe34 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

@Rafe34 - So Morrigan was lying, or at least only telling half the story... hm... sounds good. Although I don't see any point in even bringing up the Ritual if she could do it without a Grey Warden's aid. Seems to me that she'd just do it and let you, Alistair, or whoever die, especially if you weren't an LI. But this is a good way to handwave the plot a bit and still come of as somewhat plausible.

That's why the scene pre-Dark Ritual is SO important to Morrigan's motivations- the one between her and Alistair. I just really can't believe that was cut from the game. The link below details it, if you somehow have missed it.

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

And if neither Alistair or the Warden are LIs- there's always Riordan/Loghain. Morrigan could easily have seduced either one without letting them know exactly what was going on, and without any knowledge on the Warden's part. 

Wow! Thanks for sharing that link.

[Medhia Nox]

Not sure if someone said this - but the baby would be, what - 6 by the time the game ends? 9 by the last epilogue of Varric? What's there to tell?

Quest: Clean 5 diapers?

[TJPags]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Not sure if someone said this - but the baby would be, what - 6 by the time the game ends? 9 by the last epilogue of Varric? What's there to tell?

Quest: Clean 5 diapers?

Well, we have no idea if OGB ages the same as other children, and who says DA3 - if that's where he comes into play - has to take place at the end of DA2?  Maybe it's 5 years later.  Or maybe the Elluvian warps time . . . he spends 20 years there, but only 10 pass here kind of thing.

Plenty of ways they can get around this, I think.

[arnett001]

Hmmm...This is all the more interesting since my warden romanced her and then went through the eluvian. They can't simply leave us hanging, but it will take a masterpiece of story to explain. They can't be rushing the story like in DA2.

[Medhia Nox]

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

[TJPags]

Medhia Nox wrote...

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

Died of wounds?

[DiablosShadows]

TJPags wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

Died of wounds?

Injury kit:wizard:

[TJPags]

DiablosShadows wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

Died of wounds?

Injury kit:wizard:

Clearly, you didn't have as many in the inventory as you thought you did. 

[Big_Choppa]

No Morrigan but there is Leliana. I am disappoint.

[graciegrace]

Flemeth makes clear mention of Morrigan when you revive her in Act 1. She's not out of the picture, that's for sure.

[DiablosShadows]

TJPags wrote...

DiablosShadows wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

Died of wounds?

Injury kit:wizard:

Clearly, you didn't have as many in the inventory as you thought you did. 

lol no but seriously didnt David Gaider say that if no DR was done there wont be a baby?

[AtreiyaN7]

They haven't forgotten it. It's just one of many plot threads that I expect will be returned to in a future game. I don't see why everyone's in such a hurry to get to the ultimate ending - oh well. I think it will probably be a long story (considering we're talking about the whole Dragon Age), so it may take a while for all the pieces to come together.

[Baelyn]

TJPags wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

My Warden made the ultimate sacrifice - another reason not to bother purchasing anything that has to do with Morrigan and her baby. (And you can't use the excuse someone else had the baby - or my Warden would not die.)

Died of wounds?

Morrigan got the soul from a different archdemon?

And as far as our choices mattering. So far every choice we have made has mattered. The only one that hasn't was whether or not you killed Leliana in the Sacred Ashes quest. And that is up for much debate as to whether that was even really a "choice" you make. There is obviously (from Mr. Gaider's comments) a reason they want Leliana to be involved beyond DA:O and it isn't time for us to know why or what that is yet.

I think people need to give it some time before they start making broad accusations of Bioware making our choices pointless. Besides, the never advertised a game where you make up your own story. For a game to have a story and continuity there has to be some things that are certain. (Archdemon has to die, Mages and templars have to start a  war etc)

Give it time and see how your big choices play out. DA2 wasn't the time or place to reveal what happens if you make the Ultimate Sacrifice versus the Dark Ritual, it wasn't the time or place to reveal what happens with killing the Architect, nor was it the time or place to reveal what impact an OGB will have on the future or any of the other super important choices.

The choices we made that actually matter in the time and setting of DA2 are the ones we see reflected in it.

[David Gaider]

Moondoggie wrote...
Are we just forgetting that whole major plot point now?

Nope.

Are they ever going to explain what the bloody hell that was all about?

Very possibly.

[Zaros]

David Gaider wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...
Are we just forgetting that whole major plot point now?

Nope.

Are they ever going to explain what the bloody hell that was all about?

Nope.

Fix'd

[Icy Magebane]

Zaros that was bogus...(I am lol but still... be nice!)

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Baelyn]

David Gaider wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...
Are we just forgetting that whole major plot point now?

Nope.

Are they ever going to explain what the bloody hell that was all about?

Very possibly.

Sweet! Suddenly a Gaider appears!

**Wishes he would have quoted one of my posts (sad face)**

[Zaros]

I'm just playing around, though if they were even trying to explain any of the loose ends left over from Origins/Awakening, they did not do a good job of doing it.