11 réponses à ce sujet

[Chou Monster]

This isn't a critique of DA2. This is discussion on perspectives of the Dragon Age Series with both DAO and DA2 taken into consideration.


I've been reading a lot of comparisons to the Mass Effect series, in regards to how the Dragon Age series is unfolding and, quite frankly…I'm not sure that's fair.


I do not believe that DA3 will be a sequence in the same way many I have read seem to. While I might be way off base, I am more convinced that we have not seen all of Thedas just yet and that a huge, climactic battle is going to take place as the end-of-all-things. In fact, I believe very strongly that whatever game comes next will operate in a similar vein as DA2 has done which (by the way) is to merely weave another set of threads into a tapestry.


I find it odd that so many Dragon Age fans are complaining about DA2 not living up to their expectations and citing the Mass Effect / Console-Popularity as a problem, giving Bioware a bunch of flack for losing what was good and real about DAO with DA2…when I have seen very little evidence of anyone thinking really outside the box OR giving the developers and writers credit where it is due.


My only complaint about DA2 is really that the name puts gamers into the mindset of "sequel-dom" for the lack of a better word. After making Mass Effect and then Mass Effect 2, people came to a certain expectation of what a 'sequel' was, from Bioware. You cannot truly compare the ME series and the DA series because they are two very different methods of storytelling! For example:


ME is a trilogy. A story arc. It follows one protagonist through one epic journey. Which is awesome! 99% of the gaming population seems to agree on that point. Where things get muddy…is when the assumption is that the DA games are going to be the same storytelling method when, very clearly, they are not.


DAO provided a basis. We needed endless conversations, all those thousands of codex papers. It was an introduction to a new world!


DA2 provides us with a different perspective on that world. A different hero, different politics, landscape…Hawke was never called the Champion of the Free Marches. The game never intended for the effects to span an entire continent. It deepens the situation between mages and templars and racial biases and adds in some really intriguing new ideas on the history of the Dwarves (with the mysterious thaig & Sandal), the Elves (with the Eluvian) and the culture of the Qunari (I'm hoping there's a DA game that lets me be a Qunari revolutionary). All of these things excite me as a storyteller and a player in the tales. Potential!

NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG! There were definitely gameplay mechanics and companion/LI interactions that I preferred in DAO. I'm not setting out on some Exalted March to prove that DA2 was and is as good as DAO or visa versa. All I'm really trying to convey is this: The DA series has been subject to differing play styles, mechanics and scenarios since the DAO days when the flash "Dragon Age Journeys" game came about and it has continued with the Facebook app in Legends.


Maaaaaybe they are milking a cash cow. And maybe they should. If we want a polished, perfect game…that takes a lotta cash. DA2 was worth the $70 price tag. There were things I enjoyed more and less, but to me, that's okay! And when it comes down to it, the Hero of Ferelden, the Champion of Kirkwall and the figures of lore who's songs have yet to be sung have helped me to shape a Thedas which is truly mine. I love the world I've been a part of creating and DA2 proved itself not to be a disappointment because I'm excited to make another impact on the world somewhere else. Hopefully, there's some other fans out there who are in this for the storytelling as much as they are for varied dungeon landscapes and whether or not there was enough smex with companions.

Modifié par Chou Monster, 19 mars 2011 - 02:07 .

[Casuist]

+1

...and your idea of a Qunari PC is actually quite appealing- perhaps set against a renewed conflict between the Qunari and Tevinter (or Thedas at large). 'twould make a good game.

[Icy Magebane]

Nah... I think it's better to tell a cohesive tale than jump around the continent giving us perspectives from a variety of cultures and PCs. I cannot be personally invested in the fate of a continent. That's too large a scale, unless of course, I am playing as one person who lives on that continent. If they change the protagonist every time, who cares what happens to the world? Your character will either die or disappear at the end of each game. They haven't even told us what happened with Hawke, and now you want to move on to another character?

At the very least, let's finish Hawke's tale. Then we can talk about moving on to somebody else.

[Atrumitos]

DA2 wasn't so bad. It was different than origins in the consolization sense but other than that, it was ok really. I enjoyed having a character that talks and compared to mass effect, the dialog system was very improved.

The whole racism analogy in the game was fun. Wasn't really expanded in DAO so it was a pleasant topic.

The only question and problem I have with the game is... wtf happens now? I mean pointing at the warden? They can probably make 10 more games on different aspects of Thedas with heroes disappearing and all pointing to the previous heroes, till they decide to make a new game based on all your heroes or so and have all 12 of them sitting on a round table and planning to take over the world.

Hope this is getting somewhere.

[TJPags]

All the comparisons to ME lose me.

I never played that game.

Just because 2 games are made by the same company doesn't mean they have to be similar.

Modifié par TJPags, 19 mars 2011 - 02:23 .

[DanielleTHM]

I like the perspective of the individual character's stories playing out with the bigger story of Thedas as a backdrop, I think it helps with the whole immersion thing. I'll keep buying if Bioware keeps me entertained.

Besides, if we only followed one character's story, there's a good chance somewhere along the lines that character will become a Mary Sue, and nobody likes a Mary Sue...nobody.

[Siven80]

Great opening post.

Ive just finished my first playthrough, and i quite liked the story and how it fit into the world of Thedas. While the game as a whole wasnt perfect, i love the lore and cant wait for more.

I find it really interesting as to what happens now, Circle AND Templars rebelling, the mysterious Seekers and what is their agenda...and what of the Wardens and this dwarven idol.

Many feel the open ending was bad, i personally love it. It did, i feel give an ending to the story of the champion while setting the stage for some great stories.

[Icy Magebane]

I just looked up "Mary Sue." That's actually exactly what I want. :0

[gombie]

their approach for DA2 was a good idea! But the product they gave was unpolished, and lacking in alot of ways. They could have made this game very awesome by making
- overhauling the new npcs in each act,
- having a better variety of quests (varric/avelines companion quests for example)
- have new npc friends that yourve met between the acts
- businesses you have invested in over the gap. (so it feels like your rich and important)
- involve hawke in more political areas (make a name as a nobleman too, making hawke feel like he has power other than being able to brutally kill anything)
- reconstruction of the city after the battle.
- not use the same indoor areas
- provide atompshere in the city instead of spawning mobs of gangs at you all the damn time.
- visiting the same area again doesnt have to be boring and cheaply done like bioware have, they could have put some effort in changing each area. the elven camp is exactly the same throughout the whole 10 years and theres no new quests dialogue...... they made alot of areas for DA:O why couldnt you do it for DA2?

I prefer the approach they did for DA2, to DA:O. but it was executed poorly compared to DA:O.

with all the money they are getting for DA2 i hope they use it wisely on DA3 and make it awesome.

[Chou Monster]

DanielleTHM wrote...

I like the perspective of the individual character's stories playing out with the bigger story of Thedas as a backdrop, I think it helps with the whole immersion thing. I'll keep buying if Bioware keeps me entertained.

Besides, if we only followed one character's story, there's a good chance somewhere along the lines that character will become a Mary Sue, and nobody likes a Mary Sue...nobody.

That's a really good point, about being a Mary Sue. If I'm in a story for the STORY, I want a character that is both flawed and can rise above their own issues. This is one thing I was really impressed with in DA2. If I sat down and thought like my mage-born Hawke in one situation and my rogue Hawke whose beloved sister was lost in the Deep Roads in the *exact* same situation, they thought and believed differently and with different weaknesses and perspectives on what was happening. The nuances are a subtle but valuable aspect in the storytelling.

To the point about 'finishing Hawke's story'...I have to say that even the Warden's tale was not 'finished' in every case. This is not an open and shut history book! Which is one of the points in the lore I LOVE about Dragon Age. History is still being made and Thedas' middle-ages/fantasy feeling might make you believe that it is in the past. Really, it's in the present. Even if Hawke is not the central figure of the next installment that does not mean the Champion's tale is put to rest. In fact, it might make it even better if two tales are being told at the same time! Who knows?

From what I have seen of the writing so far, Bioware is able to craft both action-driven and character-driven plotlines with expert execution. I'm looking forward to what is in store, next and hope it takes me by surprise

[Baelyn]

Well Bioware has time and again emphasized that Dragon Age is not about following a person but about a place and time. It amazes me that people read the developers say "This series is not about 'the wardens' its not about 'Hawke' its about a place and time," and then complain when we don't play as a warden in the sequel.

In the same way how people complain about how their choices in DA:O didn't really matter in DA2. Well thats just it...Its obvious that some of the choices we made in DA:O are VERY important to the future but that remains to be seen. DA2 is not the time or place for us to see all the effects of the choices we made in the previous game. The story isn't set fully yet to reveal how those choices play out. I believe the impact of prior choice we see in DA2 is very fitting for what it was: A parallel story (then extending some) to set yet another picture for the big event that is to come where we (presumably) will see the REAL effect those choices we made several games ago have, which in turn gives them the EPICNESS they deserve.

Choices that make sense for us to have seen in DA2's setting which we see: We see who we put on the throne. We hear about how the blight was ended. We see a de-cursed werewolf if you freed them from the curse and let the Dalish live. We hear about the Architect if you let him live. We see Nathaniel if we kept him alive and in the Wardens. We see the effectiveness of Avernus' research in a side quest. We meet up with Zevran if you let him live. We hear about who we put on the throne in Orzammar.

Obviously the big choices like the Dark Ritual, the Architect, leaving with Morrigan etc have yet to be seen but again its too soon to see these effects. After all the name of the game is Dragon Age. It is about what happens during an entire age in Thedas. The story is much bigger and much more epic than most people are giving it credit for and most of it is due to a lack of patience. They want to see RIGHT now what happens in the end. They want to see RIGHT now what happened to their warden and what role he plays.

I think this technique is going to make the story of Dragon Age one of the most unique and greatest in video game history if Bioware can keep it up. We just need to give them the time to really flesh out this world in turmoil that they first introduced to us in DA:O.

**I know some of the choices that I listed as being visible in DA2 are bugged for some people, I have not encountered them personally but I know some have. As it has been verified by Gaider all of these should be seen correctly in your game and if they arent there is an issue. The only one he stated as not carrying over is Leliana (i.e. no matter whether you "killed" her or not in DA:O she will be in DA2) **

[Noatz]

Responses regarding the plot of DA2 go some way to show off the divide between what (many) gamers apparantly consider a strong plot and what critics of literature or films consider a strong plot.

I actually like a mix of the two things. Sometimes I like a good old fashioned hero saving the world story, which is ultimately Mass Effect. Sometimes I like something more nuanced and character driven, which is DA2. I honestly wasn't expecting it after playing Origins and it surprised me at first, but I appreciate that they are starting to write more complex/less formulaic stories now. I suppose the initial negative reaction is inevitable - people don't often like change when in their comfort zone - but hopefully people will adapt and come to appreciate this new narrative style.