116 réponses à ce sujet

[Squire]

As I've pointed out several times, for me, it's the transition from a realistic pseudo-gothic world to something that more resembles the hi-fa (High Fantasy) style of Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft, particularly with regards to:

1) The changing of combat animations from something that looked realistic (while still being theatrical) to something that resembles some silly ninja-esque anime RPG, particularly with added moves that no longer even try to be realistic;

2) The re-working of the whole skills and talents system, changing from an old-school D&D style "skills and talents that are common to all (but not everyone benefits equally from them all)" system to a more restrictive, World of Warcraft style "unique talent trees" system, the very change of which is also what has put me off the newest version of D&D.

I agree that this may sound like me being petty, but I have very specific tastes when it comes to RPGs. I have always preferred Tolkienesque fantasy, and like my RPGs to have some realism (at least as much as is possible for a world of dragons and magic). Besides, I do not have to justify it. It is my money, and I have every right to choose not to buy a game I dislike, whatever the reason, just as Bioware has every right to completely change a game and call it a sequel should they so choose.

[SphereofSilence]

Here's a link to Brent Knowles' early assessment of Dragon Age 2 after playing the demo:

http://blog.brentkno...gon-age-2-demo/

(Brent Knowles was the lead designer of DAO)

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 20 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[Persephone]

Squire wrote...

As I've pointed out several times, for me, it's the transition from a realistic pseudo-gothic world to something that more resembles the hi-fa (High Fantasy) style of Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft, particularly with regards to:

1) The changing of combat animations from something that looked realistic (while still being theatrical) to something that resembles some silly ninja-esque anime RPG, particularly with added moves that no longer even try to be realistic;

2) The re-working of the whole skills and talents system, changing from an old-school D&D style "skills and talents that are common to all (but not everyone benefits equally from them all)" system to a more restrictive, World of Warcraft style "unique talent trees" system, the very change of which is also what has put me off the newest version of D&D.

I agree that this may sound like me being petty, but I have very specific tastes when it comes to RPGs. I have always preferred Tolkienesque fantasy, and like my RPGs to have some realism (at least as much as is possible for a world of dragons and magic). Besides, I do not have to justify it. It is my money, and I have every right to choose not to buy a game I dislike, whatever the reason, just as Bioware has every right to completely change a game and call it a sequel should they so choose.

Not petty at all. These are all valid and good points right there. Well said!

[abaris]

Squire wrote...

As I've pointed out several times, for me, it's the transition from a realistic pseudo-gothic world to something that more resembles the hi-fa (High Fantasy) style of Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft, particularly with regards to:

1) The changing of combat animations from something that looked realistic (while still being theatrical) to something that resembles some silly ninja-esque anime RPG, particularly with added moves that no longer even try to be realistic;

2) The re-working of the whole skills and talents system, changing from an old-school D&D style "skills and talents that are common to all (but not everyone benefits equally from them all)" system to a more restrictive, World of Warcraft style "unique talent trees" system, the very change of which is also what has put me off the newest version of D&D.

I agree that this may sound like me being petty, but I have very specific tastes when it comes to RPGs. I have always preferred Tolkienesque fantasy, and like my RPGs to have some realism (at least as much as is possible for a world of dragons and magic). Besides, I do not have to justify it. It is my money, and I have every right to choose not to buy a game I dislike, whatever the reason, just as Bioware has every right to completely change a game and call it a sequel should they so choose.

Exactly the way I felt after playing the demo.

I would add, the skills tree didn't put me off half as much as the new combat system and animations. This really did it for me, before I even learned about repetitive environments. Another point was the inability to learn anything about my companions before being thrown into said combat. One of them dying didn't leave me with any feelings at all, since I didn't even know who the guy dying was. Well, he was supposed to be one of my siblings, but for me, he still was nothing else than a pile of pixels - quite different from the exposition in DAO where you had plenty of opportunities to develop some feelings for youself and your family or friends before the first sword was drawn.

Immersion is a big deal on my part and the way it is handled now, immersion is no longer an option.

As for the original question: Good or bad is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously there is a market for this kind of game. But obviously I'm no longer the core audience.

[Meltorian]

At first I was a little bit disappointed with Dragon Age 2, as it was odd to have enemies materialise out of thin air or a multi-purpose cave, used as an elven sanctuary, a mine, or "pass-through" cave. I guess everybody knows what I'm aiming at here and I think that the developers should have spent a few more months, creating a unique and eye-pleasing environment.

The main problem I have with the new combat systems is that it creates the impression of being a mass murderer rather than an adventurer who has to fight if he choses to or is forced to. After having fought against several "Serious Sam like" waves of enemies the protagonists literally wade knee deep in entrails and blood and are instantly able to start a conversation with the NPCs again, while being covered in blood. Have you ever imagined someone starting a conversation in public while being covered in blood? Somehow the NPCs in DA seem to have some underlying mental issues...

As far as the story and the characters are concerned I'm quite pleased. It is true that there are no Morrigan,Shale or Sten any more, but I actually do like the characters they picked up in DAII, as they were, at least Merrigan, Anders and Isabela, also a part of DA:O. On the other hand there is no character in DA II that I actually dislike, whereas DA:O had some such as Wrynn or Leliana which I scarcely talked to. But I think that it is also necessary to have characters you do not identify with or who you even despise, as they enrichen the overall social interaction.

In this regard, I also do like the new rather Mass Effect 2 oriented system with the wheel of choices. Completely free decisions are an illusion, at least in computer games, and are always dependant on the thoughts and ideas the developers have invested in the story telling. Therefore these "choices" can only represent a certain variety of possible choices the designers came up with that naturally limit the freedom of choice in overall. In DA:O I felt rather often faced with implausible choices or had to suffer the consequences for things I didn't felt responsible for. In DA 2 I haven't felt that way so far.

I have to say, however, that the "family relations" in DA 2 feel quite cheesy. Why even introduce a sister/brother only to have them killed before developing any kind of attachment for them. Although we experience the game via our avatar, we are not the protagonist. At the beginning our avatar has a huge advance in information which does not help at all to embark the family story. I'm also still curious why I was made responsible by my mother for the death, as it was apparently a bold ogre and not I who did anything. I also don't recall "encouraging" anyone. These issues, however, are not mended after the cheesy starting sequence or throughout the whole of the story, but are consitent and reappear whenever a family member is involved.

In overall, I do like the game, but I would urge the developers to spend more time and thought before releasing the next installment of the series.

P.S. I was actually relieved that the darkspawns were no longer so dominant... DA:O often reminded me of a crude mixture between Lord of the Rings and Jordan's Wheel of Time mashed together in a tumble dryer.

Modifié par Meltorian, 20 mars 2011 - 11:56 .

[Per-Harry]

It is unbelievable! Why, oh why, isn´t it possible to specialize your companions or provide them with different armor? If this is the case with DA 3 I will not buy it! It takes away the dynamics of the game, and you control over the companions development. Terrible!!! And on top of that; because you are forced to have a certain amount of points in a ability tree to get a certain ability the whole idea of making the development more free falls flat. It makes it even more rigid. Terrible!!!

Why isn´t it possible to paste a unhappy "smiley" into this text???

[abaris]

Per-Harry wrote...

It is unbelievable! Why, oh why, isn´t it possible to specialize your companions or provide them with different armor? If this is the case with DA 3 I will not buy it!

The sad thing: If DAII sells, it will be the rolemodel for DAIII. If it doesn't sell, there probably won't be any DAIII.

[Reverser]

I personally loved DAO and am liking DAII. I haven't beaten II yet but it's providing me with plenty of entertainment thus far. The only difference, from my perspective, is that DAO made me want to sit there and play it for longer periods of time than the latter does.

[Spartas Husky]

nvm:P

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 23 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Intensity Penguin]

Huh. Now I'm not too sure whether to get DAII now.. But it sounds like BioWare just did to the Dragon Age series what they did in the transition from ME1 to ME2, which was better than the sequel, in my point of view anyway.

[Lux]

Intensity Penguin wrote...

Huh. Now I'm not too sure whether to get DAII now.. But it sounds like BioWare just did to the Dragon Age series what they did in the transition from ME1 to ME2, which was better than the sequel, in my point of view anyway.

That's what they were aiming for. They didn't quite get there.

[v_ware]

Feels rushed overall.

[KalDurenik]

*Limited rpg - Its more like a adventure game where you as the player point the actor with a predefined personality and you just point the actor in the general direction.

*The lol wheel. It dont even add to the illusion of there being a choice. Most of it is not even a choice. Hell the wheel works great in a adventure / action game where you dont RP.

*The animations are way to fast. While SOME of the DAO animations was to slow DA2 went so far into the wrong direction that i would class it with either lightsaber combat or Anime.

*Even less need for tactics. At the high point the game is stupid hard.  There is no depth, complexity to the ability system.

*Removing the few abilities that allow you to "talk" your way out of problems. I want to see MORE options of this.

*No tactical camera

*Horrible story and story flow. It should be noted that the general idea is okey. Its just done so badly that first year students of a writing class would be ashamed to show this to someone. Also... You dont JUMP in time and meet random people in a RPG.

*Lore holes, plot holes, horrible ending with a cliff hanger so deep that Bioware probably have no idea what to do with it.

*Roof ninjas

*The entire combat system... I do how many % less damage!? WHY!? And then fights are not even fun. Hell on nightmare some fights take 20-30min of the same repeated 2-3 things... Yes even wow boss fights are better done.

*No cusomtization, less abilities, less ways to play your... Biowares character and give your companions new gear.

*No real world... Hell the town is not a town. Its lifeless, soulless, It looks like the designers did not even want to work on DA2.

*Most of the companions are not even made in any good way...

*The rival / friend system make no sense even more when you add in romances to that... Even more when you add unavoidable romance crap.

*No reaction from the npc's while you run around butchering people and making them explode on the streets.

*Way to many junk items for how the inventory system work.

*No choices, the game dont even try to give you the illusion of a choice instead your choices are "yes, yes, no... but i accept"

*Same AI problems as DAO...

*There are a few more things but oh well \\o/

[burbaxion]

O.K. i didn't like DA:O for 2 main things (that together make the entirety of the game but ok):
1) The combat: a puttet with the legs ripped off feels more satisfying than the characters in this game,you'll whine and cry and say things like "IN A RPG COMBAT IS NOT EVERYTHING YOU MEANIE!" and i'll answer you: "If in THIS game is note everything,why 80% of the gameplay is going around a dungeon and hitting darkspawns using your blades as damn CLUBS?The developers themselves put so much blood in the trailers,in the game,they wanted the game to look violent but all they got was something that felt like wooden mannequins sparring with dumb bloodbags.
Plot:Just how can you say the plot is good?!Seriously,this game as got such better plot,i'm not expecting something at Metal Gear level but how can you call a plot 35747473728820 missions that ask you to recruit random people for your army (that ask you to do something,or rather ALWAIS to KILL some crappy monster or demon) that you will never see again till the final battle?That,my friends,is something that should be a sub-plot.It's the same as mass-effect,you do 34536277 mini-quests and companion-related quests and 5 REAL plot quests,IT'S TOO DISPERSIVE!!!Oh,and why do you always whine and complain about "recycled dungeons" ?in DA:O you had something like 10 dungeons in a WHOLE KINGDOM!On top of that,you have to come back many and many times into the same dungeons again and again to:walk,hit animated bloodbags with your clu...erm,blades,kill a bigger bloodbag,say three thing in a dialogue and come back to get your reward..cool

[majestic jellyy]

I don't know what all of you are ****ing about. Dragon age 2 was perfectly fine to me in every way EXCEPT for the same areas being used over and over again. I've bought every Bioware game since KOTOR and all of them have been an atleast 8 for me, (Mass Effect 1 being my favorite so far). And yes I agree that DA:O was better, but I have played through DA:2 5 times now, and I still can't get enough of it.

[dheer]

Back to the grave with thee.

Whining about people giving an answer to the question in the thread title is poor form as well.

[John Epler]

Really no reason to necro this.

Locking.