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The bigger picture - DA2 and it's defenders.


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#1
The_Eejit

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 This forum has been a war zone since DA2 released. We have people on both sides hurling insults at each other.


I think we have to stop for a moment and consider what we are doing. This is the same fight we see all too often these days. It is ok to enjoy DA2, if you find it fun, thats great. It is also great for people who enjoy dragon age 2 to give their opinions and to debate with people who don't like the game. But there is a line you can cross when it comes to defending a video game, and many have crossed it. I think we can agree that EA and Bioware don't need people to defend them in everyway possible, and to silence anyone who has an issue with either of the companys, especially in this all too common situation.


The gaming industry is quite large at this time, and there is a lot of money to be made. This is a good thing, but also extremely bad left un-moderated. At this time, gaming is also more widespread than it has ever been, with everybody from all walks of life now playing video games on their downtime. This is a good thing, but also a bad thing. Both of these factors can, and are, really hurting video games themselves. You have big corp's like EA and Activision cashing in on these new audiences, by releasing cut-down, simplified games, and giving them a "bad boy" attitude, as seen in the large number of grey-brown shooters, and the lack of colour or imagination in the majority of genre's (just go into a game store, and look at the sheer number of modern day shooter's etc).


If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard. 


So thus, many big corp's, to appeal to the mainstream, will release extremely simple games, generally sticking to the FPS genre, with "hardcore" grey, brown bloody violence and a load of big men (ironic that the primary schooler will call zelda "gay", while drooling over large men with guns). 


This brings us to the next issue. Its no secret that you have large corp's everywhere, in every industry, that see everything on the planet as money. It is also no secret that they care not for tomorrow, and that only what money they can make today counts. They don't care if any game they release is fun or even functional, they don't care if they ruin a franchise, they only care that its made quickly and cheaply, and that it cashes in on the fans of whatever company they are in the process of pillaging. 


This is what happen to Dragon Age 2. Its a shell of a game, a clear warning that these big suits couldn't care less about entertainment value or being faithful to customers. Everything about Dragon Age 2 is a rushed mess, made as quickly as possible to make a quick buck. 


When you defend a mess like Dragon Age 2, when you call it flawless, when you beg for DLC, your hurting the gaming industry. Your telling these fat men on the 6 hundred and 66th floor that its ok to sell lemon's. If consumers don't demand better, we won't get better, and the only way to make them listen is with your wallet and then with what you praise. We should always be pointing out faults, always giving suggestions on what to improve, and giving praise for great ideas. We should never, ever, reward business behavior like this.


I am not saying you have to throw the game away, I'm not saying your not allowed to have fun with it, I'm saying your teaching these fat kids that they can do whatever they want, and your blind faith, love and praise while Bobby Jr and EA the 3rd are trashing your house is completely wrong. They are a company, not your freind, if you want better, you have to reward and punish where its due.


If your going to sit there and have no problem with EA and Bioware releasing a rushed mess with nothing to do with the franchise, thats terrible in everyway, using your faith and the money of the pre-teens who are attracted to this extremely simple RPG, then you have something wrong with you. Don't get robbed, then defend the robbers because they left you a piece of toast. Demand better. 


Every company is out to make a profit, but when your in the entertainment industry, you better be out to make something entertaining as well. Don't let these big wigs get away with it, please. At this rate DA3 will be just as bad, because what incentive do they have to do better? Its up to you, I just hope you can see the big picture.
Thankyou.


 -- P.S -- Sorry Bits of it were a little harsh, and came off as an angry rant(and lord knows we have far too many of them).

- I just think we as a consumer have a right to demand finished and well made products, and that they put a little care into what they put on the shelves. They want money, we want entertainment, so we shouldn't let them get away with our money without giving us a game worth the price tag. We are like parents, we must teach them what we will let them get away with and what we won't stand for. They need us.-

Modifié par The_Eejit, 19 mars 2011 - 04:21 .


#2
Veex

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In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!

#3
Loc'n'lol

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Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


Thank you, that was a rather uninviting wall of text, and in hindsight, not worthy of my time.

#4
The_Eejit

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Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better. Its the fact that you don't care when somebody cashes in that is depressing.

Modifié par The_Eejit, 19 mars 2011 - 02:43 .


#5
BeardedNinja

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The_Eejit wrote...

Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better.

so your telling us not to defend our opinions, but you can post this giant post defending your opinion? Hypocrtical thinking much?

#6
billybobjones

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The_Eejit wrote...

Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better. Its the fact that you don't care when somebody cashes in that is depressing.


I actually enjoyed the game. I can tell it was rushed, probably due to EA's exectuive meddling, but Bioware still turned out a fine product, 8.5 worthy IMO, which is, funny enough, right around the metacritic average.

If Bioware had another 6 months, it would be getting 9.5+'s

#7
Il Divo

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The_Eejit wrote...

I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better. Its the fact that you don't care when somebody cashes in that is depressing.


Which requires that I change my opinion. If I did consider Dragon Age 2 to be the best damn RPG ever made, I don't need to 'expect better'. You'll find just as many gamers with similar attachments to Baldur's Gate II and Planescape: Torment.

It is one thing to advise fans to avoid blind faith. It is quite another when you tell us that

"This is what happen to Dragon Age 2. Its a shell of a game, a clear warning that these big suits couldn't care less about entertainment value or being faithful to customers. Everything about Dragon Age 2 is a rushed mess, made as quickly as possible to make a quick buck. "

I simply disagree.

Modifié par Il Divo, 19 mars 2011 - 02:49 .


#8
The_Eejit

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Metroidbum wrote...

The_Eejit wrote...

Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better. Its the fact that you don't care when somebody cashes in that is depressing.


I actually enjoyed the game. I can tell it was rushed, probably due to EA's exectuive meddling, but Bioware still turned out a fine product, 8.5 worthy IMO, which is, funny enough, right around the metacritic average.

If Bioware had another 6 months, it would be getting 9.5+'s


This is my issue. You will say you really love them game, then turn around and say, oh but it was rushed. Imagine how good the game would of been given the right about of development time. Instead, you accept it like its the way of life. It doesn't have to be.

#9
The_Eejit

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Metroidbum wrote...

The_Eejit wrote...

Veex wrote...

In a nutshell for the "TLDR" crowd. If you like the game, your opinion is wrong and you're just a sheep. You can't defend a game you like because the OP thinks it was bad and demands better!


I said you can like the game, just don't defend it like its your god. I just wish you would expect better. Its the fact that you don't care when somebody cashes in that is depressing.


I actually enjoyed the game. I can tell it was rushed, probably due to EA's exectuive meddling, but Bioware still turned out a fine product, 8.5 worthy IMO, which is, funny enough, right around the metacritic average.

If Bioware had another 6 months, it would be getting 9.5+'s


So your ok it was rushed? Your honestly fine with this? This is the problem, you need to take issue with the fact the game was much worse off from being rushed.

#10
The_Eejit

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yup, the forums work just as well as anything else affiliated with EA, as your posts only work 25% of the time. Guess I will have to buy the DLC to fix that.

Modifié par The_Eejit, 19 mars 2011 - 02:54 .


#11
OutlawTorn6806

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Damn it. I'll really try next time not to like a game you believe is rushed and bad. Okay? I'm sorry this time. Its just that I really liked the combat and personal story. I know thats an opinion, and that mine is completely wrong. Will you accept my apology? I'll only like games the internet agrees with nowadays. I'll also start liking your musical tastes, if it'll make you happier.

#12
Jon Jern_

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I would say "umad" but this is funny.
I like the game.
I thought it was amazing.
I don't need/should to give my reasons.
Because I like the game
I like the game
"AYE" like the game.

I don't see why I should defend this if I like it. I don't care if someone else likes it or someone else doesn't like it.

I like Dragon Age 2.
Shoot me.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 19 mars 2011 - 02:57 .


#13
AtreiyaN7

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Oh, and I guess that means the vicious attacks are the only acceptable feedback in your worldview, or maybe the threads calling for people to be fired? Riiiiight. I've disagreed with people, but I don't insult them or curse at them or try to demean them or their intellect (I am certainly snarky and sarcastic at times but nobody's perfect). I generally respect people who at least post in a civil manner.

I'm not so sure you can say the same about many people in your camp (because your post clearly indicates that you don't like the game). I've never said the game was perfect at any time. In fact, what I've often said is that it's a good game with some flaws. If you view it as the end of the world that the game doesn't fulfill your requirements for RPG goodness, you're entitled to said view. However, those who disagree and feel the game was pretty solid are equally entitled to speak - just like you are. And as a previous poster pointed out, I find your thread rather hypocritical. You want only your voice and the voices of those who agree with you to be heard.

#14
HollaAtYaBoy

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AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh, and I guess that means the vicious attacks are the only acceptable feedback in your worldview, or maybe the threads calling for people to be fired? Riiiiight. I've disagreed with people, but I don't insult them or curse at them or try to demean them or their intellect (I am certainly snarky and sarcastic at times but nobody's perfect). I generally respect people who at least post in a civil manner.

I'm not so sure you can say the same about many people in your camp (because your post clearly indicates that you don't like the game). I've never said the game was perfect at any time. In fact, what I've often said is that it's a good game with some flaws. If you view it as the end of the world that the game doesn't fulfill your requirements for RPG goodness, you're entitled to said view. However, those who disagree and feel the game was pretty solid are equally entitled to speak - just like you are. And as a previous poster pointed out, I find your thread rather hypocritical. You want only your voice and the voices of those who agree with you to be heard.


I find you to be a sycophantic cheerleading Biodrone whose opinion holds no sway.

Nobody likes you and you are not special..

Modifié par HollaAtYaBoy, 19 mars 2011 - 03:01 .


#15
CLime

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The_Eejit wrote...

If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard.


I can't help but be repulsed by this kind of narrow-minded stereotyping.

Dragon Age 2 was made to appeal to a different fanbase than Dragon Age: Origins.  Those two groups aren't exclusive, the majority of one also belong to the other.  Unfortunately, the people on the fringes of the Venn diagram decide that the other group is somehow inferior.

Essentially, by complaining about the "jock crowd" or whatever, you become this guy.  There exist people out there who value different things in video games.  Their opinions, their preferences, and their dollars are just as valid as your own.  Don't act as if buying one videogame from a studio somehow grants you special entitlements to expect identical results from all future products.

#16
OddHerbivore

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I am enjoying the game quite a bit so far. Sure it has some flaws and isn't as great as DA:O, the combat is fun and keeps me more engaged. No matter what your side you have to commend Bioware for not following the trend of some companies following their tried and true formula of previous successes and never straying from that afterwards in the slightest.( *cough Call of Duty *cough*)

#17
Darkest Dreamer

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It's a good game, a lot of the hate is irrational and if someone hangs a cardboard sign over their neck which says, "The coming of Dragon Age is a sign of DOOM", then I will rightly point out how silly they look.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 19 mars 2011 - 03:09 .


#18
The_Eejit

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AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh, and I guess that means the vicious attacks are the only acceptable feedback in your worldview, or maybe the threads calling for people to be fired? Riiiiight. I've disagreed with people, but I don't insult them or curse at them or try to demean them or their intellect (I am certainly snarky and sarcastic at times but nobody's perfect). I generally respect people who at least post in a civil manner.

I'm not so sure you can say the same about many people in your camp (because your post clearly indicates that you don't like the game). I've never said the game was perfect at any time. In fact, what I've often said is that it's a good game with some flaws. If you view it as the end of the world that the game doesn't fulfill your requirements for RPG goodness, you're entitled to said view. However, those who disagree and feel the game was pretty solid are equally entitled to speak - just like you are. And as a previous poster pointed out, I find your thread rather hypocritical. You want only your voice and the voices of those who agree with you to be heard.


People who like the game have a right to speak their opinion and to enjoy the game. I'm glad you like it. I'm just not happy that you don't take offence at the business practice employed with this game. Will you agree with me that it needed way more development time, and that it was wrong for them not to give the game the time it deserves.

Modifié par The_Eejit, 19 mars 2011 - 03:04 .


#19
Cobrawar

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The_Eejit wrote...

 This forum has been a war zone since DA2 released. We have people on both sides hurling insults at each other.


I think we have to stop for a moment and consider what we are doing. This is the same fight we see all too often these days. It is ok to enjoy DA2, if you find it fun, thats great. It is also great for people who enjoy dragon age 2 to give their opinions and to debate with people who don't like the game. But there is a line you can cross when it comes to defending a video game, and many have crossed it. I think we can agree that EA and Bioware don't need people to defend them in everyway possible, and to silence anyone who has an issue with either of the companys, especially in this all too common situation.


The gaming industry is quite large at this time, and there is a lot of money to be made. This is a good thing, but also extremely bad left un-moderated. At this time, gaming is also more widespread than it has ever been, with everybody from all walks of life now playing video games on their downtime. This is a good thing, but also a bad thing. Both of these factors can, and are, really hurting video games themselves. You have big corp's like EA and Activision cashing in on these new audiences, by releasing cut-down, simplified games, and giving them a "bad boy" attitude, as seen in the large number of grey-brown shooters, and the lack of colour or imagination in the majority of genre's (just go into a game store, and look at the sheer number of modern day shooter's etc).


If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard. 


So thus, many big corp's, to appeal to the mainstream, will release extremely simple games, generally sticking to the FPS genre, with "hardcore" grey, brown bloody violence and a load of big men (ironic that the primary schooler will call zelda "gay", while drooling over large men with guns). 


This brings us to the next issue. Its no secret that you have large corp's everywhere, in every industry, that see everything on the planet as money. It is also no secret that they care not for tomorrow, and that only what money they can make today counts. They don't care if any game they release is fun or even functional, they don't care if they ruin a franchise, they only care that its made quickly and cheaply, and that it cashes in on the fans of whatever company they are in the process of pillaging. 


This is what happen to Dragon Age 2. Its a shell of a game, a clear warning that these big suits couldn't care less about entertainment value or being faithful to customers. Everything about Dragon Age 2 is a rushed mess, made as quickly as possible to make a quick buck. 


When you defend a mess like Dragon Age 2, when you call it flawless, when you beg for DLC, your hurting the gaming industry. Your telling these fat men on the 6 hundred and 66th floor that its ok to sell lemon's. If consumers don't demand better, we won't get better, and the only way to make them listen is with your wallet and then with what you praise. We should always be pointing out faults, always giving suggestions on what to improve, and giving praise for great ideas. We should never, ever, reward business behavior like this.


I am not saying you have to throw the game away, I'm not saying your not allowed to have fun with it, I'm saying your teaching these fat kids that they can do whatever they want, and your blind faith, love and praise while Bobby Jr and EA the 3rd are trashing your house is completely wrong. They are a company, not your freind, if you want better, you have to reward and punish where its due.


If your going to sit there and have no problem with EA and Bioware releasing a rushed mess with nothing to do with the franchise, thats terrible in everyway, using your faith and the money of the pre-teens who are attracted to this extremely simple RPG, then you have something wrong with you. Don't get robbed, then defend the robbers because they left you a piece of toast. Demand better. 


Every company is out to make a profit, but when your in the entertainment industry, you better be out to make something entertaining as well. Don't let these big wigs get away with it, please. At this rate DA3 will be just as bad, because what insentive do they have to do better? Its up to you, I just hope you can see the big picture.
Thankyou.


 excellent post, this almost made me cry.

#20
The_Eejit

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CLime wrote...


I can't help but be repulsed by this kind of narrow-minded stereotyping.

Dragon Age 2 was made to appeal to a different fanbase than Dragon Age: Origins.  Those two groups aren't exclusive, the majority of one also belong to the other.  Unfortunately, the people on the fringes of the Venn diagram decide that the other group is somehow inferior.

Essentially, by complaining about the "jock crowd" or whatever, you become this guy.  There exist people out there who value different things in video games.  Their opinions, their preferences, and their dollars are just as valid as your own.  Don't act as if buying one videogame from a studio somehow grants you special entitlements to expect identical results from all future products.


Ok I was a little harsh. I know there are people of all different groups and everybody has different tastes, I'm just saying that because the people who like games like Civilization are outnumbered by the people who like games like Gears Of War, we are stuck with games like Gears Of War, thus in my opinion that is a large negative when it comes to mainstreaming gaming.

Thats like you and your friends going to Mcdee's for a decade for a Mcburger, then finding out they only sell salads now because a much larger group of people would rather come in and buy the salad. Clearly one side will be unhappy.

What happens then? Not enough options. Only one side gets what they want.

Modifié par The_Eejit, 19 mars 2011 - 03:12 .


#21
St. Walker

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CLime wrote...
Dragon Age 2 was made to appeal to a different fanbase than Dragon Age: Origins.  Those two groups aren't exclusive, the majority of one also belong to the other.  Unfortunately, the people on the fringes of the Venn diagram decide that the other group is somehow inferior.


I think this is quite possibly the problem here. If you like the game, fine; that's your prerogative. Regardless, you have to admit it seems odd to release a sequel to a game with a completely different group of people in mind, effectively alienating the crowd that made the first installment a success.

#22
Il Divo

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St. Walker wrote...

I think this is quite possibly the problem here. If you like the game, fine; that's your prerogative. Regardless, you have to admit it seems odd to release a sequel to a game with a completely different group of people in mind, effectively alienating the crowd that made the first installment a success.


It depends on how we understand 'different group'. I played Dragon Age 2 and enjoyed it for largely the same reasons I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins (the unique characters, setting, etc). Even in terms of tactical gameplay, I didn't find myself using tactics any less than DAII than I did in Origins. In that sense, I felt the game still appealed to me for the same reasons.

#23
AtreiyaN7

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The_Eejit wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh, and I guess that means the vicious attacks are the only acceptable feedback in your worldview, or maybe the threads calling for people to be fired? Riiiiight. I've disagreed with people, but I don't insult them or curse at them or try to demean them or their intellect (I am certainly snarky and sarcastic at times but nobody's perfect). I generally respect people who at least post in a civil manner.

I'm not so sure you can say the same about many people in your camp (because your post clearly indicates that you don't like the game). I've never said the game was perfect at any time. In fact, what I've often said is that it's a good game with some flaws. If you view it as the end of the world that the game doesn't fulfill your requirements for RPG goodness, you're entitled to said view. However, those who disagree and feel the game was pretty solid are equally entitled to speak - just like you are. And as a previous poster pointed out, I find your thread rather hypocritical. You want only your voice and the voices of those who agree with you to be heard.


People who like the game have a right to speak their opinion and to enjoy the game. I'm glad you like it. I'm just not happy that you don't take offence at the business practice employed with this game. Will you agree with me that it needed way more development time, and that it was wrong for them not to give the game the time it deserves.


I think that EVERY game in the existence of gaming history could have used more time. It's not limited to DA2 - or do you think that I enjoyed the quicksave bug present in Fallout: New Vegas at launch, the bug that destroyed hours of effort because I didn't realize there was a problem at first? The world isn't perfect, schedules aren't perfect, games aren't perfect (not even the really good ones), and companies aren't perfect.

I never threw a tantrum over that quicksave bug btw, because A) I'm patient (usually), B) the problem was resolved quickly and C) I think there are more important things in life than screaming and ranting on a forum about what went wrong. If a game sends someone's temper through the roof so much so that they feel compelled to shout expletives at people, etc., then maybe they shouldn't be playing games at all.

The only thing I care about with regards to DA2 atm is the BW takes away valuable feedback from people over things like the recycled interior maps (caves in particular). And by valuable feedback, I mean the rare threads where someone actually posts in a reasonable, calm, and intelligent manner about the positives and negatives and how they might be fixed.

#24
CLime

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The_Eejit wrote...

Thats like you and your friends going to Mcdee's for a decade for a Mcburger, then finding out they only sell salads now because a much larger group of people would rather come in and buy the salad. Clearly one side will be unhappy.

What happens then? Not enough options. Only one side gets what they want.


Sure, that's fair.  It's perfectly okay to express disappointment that DA2, or any other game, did not live up to personal expectations.

It's not okay, however, when statements about games morph into statements about people, whether disparaging groups with different tastes, or insulting studios for choosing to cater to those groups.

It would be a significant problem if all studios made games targeted at one group, be it hardcores or casuals, strategy fans or action fans.  I don't agree that DA2 somehow foretells such a shift in developer priorities, however.  I'm pretty sure companies and consumers alike realize it would harm the industry as a whole to completely exclude all the smaller fanbases.

#25
General Flynt

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The_Eejit wrote...

 This forum has been a war zone since DA2 released. We have people on both sides hurling insults at each other.


I think we have to stop for a moment and consider what we are doing. This is the same fight we see all too often these days. It is ok to enjoy DA2, if you find it fun, thats great. It is also great for people who enjoy dragon age 2 to give their opinions and to debate with people who don't like the game. But there is a line you can cross when it comes to defending a video game, and many have crossed it. I think we can agree that EA and Bioware don't need people to defend them in everyway possible, and to silence anyone who has an issue with either of the companys, especially in this all too common situation.


The gaming industry is quite large at this time, and there is a lot of money to be made. This is a good thing, but also extremely bad left un-moderated. At this time, gaming is also more widespread than it has ever been, with everybody from all walks of life now playing video games on their downtime. This is a good thing, but also a bad thing. Both of these factors can, and are, really hurting video games themselves. You have big corp's like EA and Activision cashing in on these new audiences, by releasing cut-down, simplified games, and giving them a "bad boy" attitude, as seen in the large number of grey-brown shooters, and the lack of colour or imagination in the majority of genre's (just go into a game store, and look at the sheer number of modern day shooter's etc).


If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard. 


So thus, many big corp's, to appeal to the mainstream, will release extremely simple games, generally sticking to the FPS genre, with "hardcore" grey, brown bloody violence and a load of big men (ironic that the primary schooler will call zelda "gay", while drooling over large men with guns). 


This brings us to the next issue. Its no secret that you have large corp's everywhere, in every industry, that see everything on the planet as money. It is also no secret that they care not for tomorrow, and that only what money they can make today counts. They don't care if any game they release is fun or even functional, they don't care if they ruin a franchise, they only care that its made quickly and cheaply, and that it cashes in on the fans of whatever company they are in the process of pillaging. 


This is what happen to Dragon Age 2. Its a shell of a game, a clear warning that these big suits couldn't care less about entertainment value or being faithful to customers. Everything about Dragon Age 2 is a rushed mess, made as quickly as possible to make a quick buck. 


When you defend a mess like Dragon Age 2, when you call it flawless, when you beg for DLC, your hurting the gaming industry. Your telling these fat men on the 6 hundred and 66th floor that its ok to sell lemon's. If consumers don't demand better, we won't get better, and the only way to make them listen is with your wallet and then with what you praise. We should always be pointing out faults, always giving suggestions on what to improve, and giving praise for great ideas. We should never, ever, reward business behavior like this.


I am not saying you have to throw the game away, I'm not saying your not allowed to have fun with it, I'm saying your teaching these fat kids that they can do whatever they want, and your blind faith, love and praise while Bobby Jr and EA the 3rd are trashing your house is completely wrong. They are a company, not your freind, if you want better, you have to reward and punish where its due.


If your going to sit there and have no problem with EA and Bioware releasing a rushed mess with nothing to do with the franchise, thats terrible in everyway, using your faith and the money of the pre-teens who are attracted to this extremely simple RPG, then you have something wrong with you. Don't get robbed, then defend the robbers because they left you a piece of toast. Demand better. 


Every company is out to make a profit, but when your in the entertainment industry, you better be out to make something entertaining as well. Don't let these big wigs get away with it, please. At this rate DA3 will be just as bad, because what insentive do they have to do better? Its up to you, I just hope you can see the big picture.
Thankyou.



I agree with pretty much everything stated here. The problem with so many newcomers to Dragon Age and RPGs in general is we get things like Dragon Age 2 ... These people that are praising it must not have anything in their background to compare it to because the bar is being set very low if this is a " great" game.  Maybe the only RPG they played was Two Worlds ?

It is not  acceptable for a $60 sequel . It is not a movie . Maybe on 11/11/11 people will understand