167 réponses à ce sujet

[Johnsen1972]

Keep loving it, but you will get less play value with each new Dragon Age game. It will be stripped down to Deadspace 2 linearity. So basically a movie. No epic choices. 12 hours playtime. A long movie for 60 bucks. Awesome. Go support EA. Buy their games and DLC's thats been stripped of the main game to increase the profit. But remember you have to preorder their game or you will buy an even more stripped game. BTW Deadspace 2 has better overall ratings then DA2. Check metacritics. Thats the future. No epic choices just a big movie.

I'll stick with companies who produce games like Skyrim or the Witcher 2.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 19 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[Clonedzero]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Keep loving it, but you will get less play value with each new Dragon Age game. It will be stripped down to Deadspace 2 linearity. So basically a movie. No epic choices. 12 hours playtime. A long movie for 60 bucks. Awesome. Go support EA. Buy their games. BTW Deadspace 2 has better overall ratings then DA2. Check metacritics.

I'll stick with companies who produce games like Skyrim or the Witcher 2.

yeah, its easy to use examples of recent "great RPGs" when they arent out yet and are all hype.

both skyrim and the witcher 2 will have the same exact outlash of raged nerds that will whine that it isnt EXACTLY what they wanted on the forums for weeks.

and seriously? skyrim? it'll be a fun dungeon explorerer sandbox game but thats all that bethsda games are. they always have horrible dialogue and stories. downright painful at times, if thats your "future of RPGs" i weep for the genre.

also, i thought DA2 was a fantastic product, i'm glad i bought it, i have 65 hours logged into it so far, thats alot of value, a dollar an hour so far? thats pretty awesome, and i plan to play through it a bunch more. so thats even more value.

seriously go find a game you enjoy, you'll be happier in life, if you're disappointed with the game thats fine, but whining about it on the forums isn't helping anyone. bioware isn't going to listen to a vocal minority on their forums who are outraged that they cant be an elf or cant dress up their followers or some other nitpicky complaint.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

The_Eejit wrote...

If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard. 

I love Civ. I love Gears of War. These are two very different games, meant to evoke two very different feelings from the player. Civ places you in the general's chair where you can craft an entire culture and civilization (duh). Gears of War puts you in the armoured boots of a hardened soldier where you fight against an unstoppable, alien enemy in gruesome conflicts. Apples and oranges, Eejit.

To say that I am a "frat boy bro" for liking Gears of War is not only insulting but also demeaning. Even if I was one of "those guys" the self-proclaimed nerd community hates, what difference does it make to you? Am I not entitled to enjoy stellar video games because I loved Prey or Turok? Am I not allowed to enjoy Dragon Age 2 for what it is instead of pining over what I think it should have been? You speak of people like me (those who are enjoying DA2) as if we're barely conscious, or barely human, but you need to look inward and face the reasoning behind your prejudices. You need to take a step back and examine why it is you feel that "people like me" are ruining your precious games. 

I loved Origins, and I love Dragon Age 2. They're two very different animals, and both have strengths and weaknesses the other doesn't have. To not be able to sit back and enjoy a game from your favourite studio for what it is must be incredibly tiresome. I don't envy you, and I don't envy the others like you that sit around these boards pining for the glory days of Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights. I don't envy you because you're stuck in the past with nostalgia goggles a foot thick. Those games happened, and you played them at a crucial development point in your life. No game will ever replace what they meant to you at that point in time, much like no game will replace what Ocarina of Time meant to me in my childhood. Remembering the good old days is one thing, but you need to leave those expectations in the past where they belong, otherwise you'll wind up bitter and jaded because nothing released seems to capture your imagination like those old games did.

TL:DR grow up OP.

[Johnsen1972]

Clonedzero wrote...

seriously go find a game you enjoy, you'll be happier in life, if you're disappointed with the game thats fine, but whining about it on the forums isn't helping anyone. bioware isn't going to listen to a vocal minority on their forums who are outraged that they cant be an elf or cant dress up their followers or some other nitpicky complaint.

Thx for your advice, I will find better rpg games, but expressing my observation isnt whining at all. Im not whining. Im telling you facts about the game industry. If you like the game, go play it, I never said that you shouldnt.
I just said you should try Deadspace 2. I played it on my PS3 just to see how future Dragon Age will look like. Basically a big movie  I actually was scared a lot in Deadspace 2.  If you like to watch big movies go and play future Bioware games.

I played DA2 twice and I really didnt enjoy running 20 times through the same maps again and again.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 19 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[Jordy Laforge]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

The_Eejit wrote...

If you put something like Gears Of War on the shelf, the game will appeal to pre-teens/teens and the jock/neo-rap/pubcrawler crowd's, looking for something with gore and beefy men to keep with their "hardcore" image. If you put something like civilization 3/4 or baldur's gate on the shelf, most of the new video game audience will stay away from them, calling them too deep, boring, colourful(thus "gay" in neo-frat gang terminology), and too hard. 

I love Civ. I love Gears of War. These are two very different games, meant to evoke two very different feelings from the player. Civ places you in the general's chair where you can craft an entire culture and civilization (duh). Gears of War puts you in the armoured boots of a hardened soldier where you fight against an unstoppable, alien enemy in gruesome conflicts. Apples and oranges, Eejit.

To say that I am a "frat boy bro" for liking Gears of War is not only insulting but also demeaning. Even if I was one of "those guys" the self-proclaimed nerd community hates, what difference does it make to you? Am I not entitled to enjoy stellar video games because I loved Prey or Turok? Am I not allowed to enjoy Dragon Age 2 for what it is instead of pining over what I think it should have been? You speak of people like me (those who are enjoying DA2) as if we're barely conscious, or barely human, but you need to look inward and face the reasoning behind your prejudices. You need to take a step back and examine why it is you feel that "people like me" are ruining your precious games. 

I loved Origins, and I love Dragon Age 2. They're two very different animals, and both have strengths and weaknesses the other doesn't have. To not be able to sit back and enjoy a game from your favourite studio for what it is must be incredibly tiresome. I don't envy you, and I don't envy the others like you that sit around these boards pining for the glory days of Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights. I don't envy you because you're stuck in the past with nostalgia goggles a foot thick. Those games happened, and you played them at a crucial development point in your life. No game will ever replace what they meant to you at that point in time, much like no game will replace what Ocarina of Time meant to me in my childhood. Remembering the good old days is one thing, but you need to leave those expectations in the past where they belong, otherwise you'll wind up bitter and jaded because nothing released seems to capture your imagination like those old games did.

TL:DR grow up OP.

+1. Excellent post!

[Clonedzero]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

seriously go find a game you enjoy, you'll be happier in life, if you're disappointed with the game thats fine, but whining about it on the forums isn't helping anyone. bioware isn't going to listen to a vocal minority on their forums who are outraged that they cant be an elf or cant dress up their followers or some other nitpicky complaint.

Thx for you advice, I will find better rpg games, but expressing my observation isnt whining at all. Im not whining. Im telling you facts about the game industry. if you like the game, go play it, I never said that you shouldnt.
I just said you should try Deadspace 2. I played it on my PS3 just to see how future Dragon Age will look like. Basically a big movie

I actually was scared a lot in Deadspace 2.

Deadspace is a survivial horrror 3rd person shooter, dragon age is an RPG. they're completely different genres of games, made by compeltely different devleopers just under the same publisher.

deadspace 2 has nothing to do with dragonage, so i dunno where you're comparing them from.

i havent played deadspace 2 but i'd like to. i generally dont buy short games like that though, i tend to rent them. i buy long games with alot of replay value like dragonage 2.

also deadspace 2 had a huge budget didn't it?

[slimgrin]

Point #1: with all due respect op, it was painful to read your entire post. This is an internet forum. Learn to be concise. Don't type walls of text.

Point #2: Fanboys will not give up their cause. They're selflessly devoted to Bioware. Bioware could hand them crap on a plate, and we'd all get a dissertation on how profound that crap is a week later. Don't try and educate them.

Point #3: Bioware is not the end-all-be-all developer. People on this site need to quit acting like the genre is dying because Bioware doesn't support it anymore. It's a bit arrogant. Other devs have been making great RPG's for as long as Bioware has.

Point #4: Bioware doesn't make hardcore RPG's. They make cinematic, character-driven RPG's. I realized this after dabbling in Baldur's Gate 2, and then playing ME1. DA:O may be a bit of an exception, but their games are meant to be a cinematic experience more than a role-playing one. Cinematics are tremendously important to them. This is why we have the dialog wheel in ME1 and ME2, explicitly 'directing' the pc. Or the tone icons in DA2 doing the same. They are illustrating decisions for the player, spelling it out. You're playing a movie in a Bioware game; this is their intent.

Point #5: they may have indeed rushed DA2. But they sure as hell won't admit it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 19 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[Johnsen1972]

Clonedzero wrote...

Deadspace is a survivial horrror 3rd person shooter, dragon age is an RPG. they're completely different genres of games, made by compeltely different devleopers just under the same publisher.

deadspace 2 has nothing to do with dragonage, so i dunno where you're comparing them from.

i havent played deadspace 2 but i'd like to. i generally dont buy short games like that though, i tend to rent them. i buy long games with alot of replay value like dragonage 2.

also deadspace 2 had a huge budget didn't it?

Nope. Not compared to Dragon Age 2.

I compare it with Dead Space 2 because thats what we will see in the future with the Dragon Age license. Why should EA produce games like Dragon Age Origins if you can make a game in much less time with much less costs that sells for the same MONEY? Wouldnt that be stupid?

Streamlining is the key. Reduce the costs to make games like Dead Space 2.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 19 mars 2011 - 07:43 .

[OutlawTorn6806]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Deadspace is a survivial horrror 3rd person shooter, dragon age is an RPG. they're completely different genres of games, made by compeltely different devleopers just under the same publisher.

deadspace 2 has nothing to do with dragonage, so i dunno where you're comparing them from.

i havent played deadspace 2 but i'd like to. i generally dont buy short games like that though, i tend to rent them. i buy long games with alot of replay value like dragonage 2.

also deadspace 2 had a huge budget didn't it?

Nope. Not compared to Dragon Age 2.

I compare it with Dead Space 2 because thats what we will see in the future with the Dragon Age license. Why should EA produce games like Dragon Age Origins if you can make a game in much less time with much less costs that sells for the same MONEY? Wouldnt that be stupid?

Streamlining is the key. Reduce the costs to make games like Dead Space 2.

Sweeping generalizations and false analogies are also key. In fact throwing out all forms of logic is most key. 

[Morducai]

As someone who went through an actual war I resent how you use the this term. Wanna know how a war zone looks like then join the military.

[Johnsen1972]

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Sweeping generalizations and false analogies are also key. In fact throwing out all forms of logic is most key. 

Read my other posts before you accuse me of false logic. Thx

[Rybciek]

I agree with you OP, to an extent. Gaming is going down the road of pandering to what you describe as the "neo-frat" crowd. And you are right, we shouldn't accept this crap from companies like EA because in the big picture we're going to buying poorer quality products.

I also agree with OLDIRTYBARON completely. Picking at every fault in a game and criticising it for not being "like the last one" is just foolish non-progressive nostalgia talking. Dragon Age 2 is a game in its own right, and contrary to how the horde of whiners describe it, it is nowhere near "bad". You are saying that purely because you wanted it to be like Dragon Age 1. Bioware changed the formula, which they are allowed to do. Even under the vile heel of EA, they've turned out an amazing quality game. I dare you to find someone who sees DA2 as trash who didn't play DA1. I've played both, I liked DA1 for its mind-blowingly compelx RPG elements and rich world and atmosphere, but the lack of a decent story left me so bored I couldn't finish it. Dragon Age 2 blows me away with the plot and character complexity, but doesn't impress at all from an RPG point of view. Personally I like this trade-off just fine, I'd rather have an interesting and innovative story at the cost of having to manage thousands of inventory items or choose from a selection of 5 hollow choices at the end of each quest.

My point is that although you are right to an extent about companies like EA dumbing down games, you overplayed it by saying that DA2 is objectively a bad game. No matter how you look at it, as a standalone game (without referencing it to DA1) it is a phenomenal game. I actually despise medieval fantasy games yet I got hooked on DA1 and even moreso on DA2. This kind of example is better said about ME2 because a lot of people who played ME2 did not play the first game, and any one of those people would call ME2 an amazing quality game. The only people who do complain about these games being "bad' are the ones who were expecting a total clone of the first game. This is a petty emotional response which is evident from a lot of the metacritic reviews having lowest scores. No objective reviewer would seriously give a Bioware game a score under 50%, let alone 0%.

I do understand what you mean, and this trend of Bioware dumbing down games is worrying (ME2) but as long as it's Bioware's choice and not EA's, I'm perfectly fine with that. They create games of superior quality either way, just with different formulas. Bioware doesn't owe it to you to stick to one formula, they are allowed to branch out as they please. In the end it's story, setting and characters which Bioware excells at, not exclusively RPG's. For me, I prefer atmospheric story-based games and I am happy to see Bioware make more of them. You seem to prefer more pure RPG elements, in which case it is not Bioware's responsibility to make a game that appeals solely to you.

Cliffnotes: Enjoy what you get. EA is still a hateful influence on Bioware though and I weep for every second they are conjoined.

Modifié par Rybciek, 19 mars 2011 - 08:14 .

[Davasar]

The great things about this thread is...

These people defending DA2 do not care for RPGs all that much. Action/adventure games are what they enjoy, and more power to them.

They have played an action/adventure game, which while passable as best, is a far cry from the truly epic RPGs that EA/Bioware will no longer make.

I realize that those times are long gone, and that watered down, rushed shells of games are the new wave of the future.

It just means my money will no longer support such farce. I will spend it other places: where time, effort and quality is put in by the people who I make the purchase from.

Enjoy your action/adventure game.

R.I.P. Deep, intricate RPGs of Bioware.

Modifié par Davasar, 19 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[BiowarEA]

Way of the world these days... more superficiality less substance...instant gratification and mass-market consumerism by the sheeple FTW.

[CRISIS1717]

Well said OP, we shouldn't be rewarding this shoddy work everyone should kick up a fuss so we don't end up with the same game next time.

[Jean de Valette]

Johnsen1972 wrote...
Thats pure capitalism, streamline the games, cut out lots of RPG elements to reduce the costs and increase profit.

It's no incident that the Adventure games of old (Lucasarts, Sierra) are dead. They're not appealing to the masses or cheap enough to make. Same thing's gonna happen to western cRPGs.
It's a mistake though to think western cRPGs wouldn't sell. Uruqhart from Obsidian claims that the BG series did quite well, and that probably the only reason why they're not made anymore is because Bioware went to the console market and Interplay lost the rights to the D&D franchise.

To make a statement people need to stop buying DA2. Of course this will only lead to EA dropping Bioware eventually. Especially if SW:TOR bombs. The sp western cRPG is dead. Deemed "unprofitable" by major publishers. Who's market surveys apparently have discovered that the mass majority of gamers are 15 years old consolers who want 'the awesome' and have attention spans of your average house cat. I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion, but apparently they have.

Fortunately there are other genres to play who do benifit from the profits big publishers are making. And I suppose there will always be Indie RPG developers who will step up to the plate.

There are two kinds of people visciously defending DA2 rights now. Bioware "fanboys" (paid or not isn't relevant to the discussion) and those living in denial (the vast majority). They're deluding themselves that this is a sweet deal that they got because they're having some fun with DA2. Or maybe they're just ashamed they've waster € 45+ on an unfinished game. And probably, the majority of these people are playing on console.

I'll explain. DA2 probably is a good game. On its own. However, there are several things to consider. 1) It's a Bioware game, and 2) it's a sequel and 3) it was rushed and 4) it's strived to please the GoW crowd and lastly 5) it's a console game.

1) Consumers over the years have higher expectations of something Bioware made, then of many other developers out there. At least, from the perspective of PC gamers.
2) DA2 has as much to do with DA:O as it has to do with CoD. If it was sold as an expansion I suppose the criticism would be much less. But they appear to have cut a lot of features which made the original game populair with the old fanbase. 
3) I've seen Bioware employee posts where they admit they had a shorter time table to complete the game. Not only that, everyone admits that the content was recycled. And the fact that they blatantly cut a NPC out of the original release just to sell it as DLC doesn't help Bioware/EA's case either.
4) Bioware continuesly states it not only wants to be a major player on the console market. Combine that with apparent EA's vision of the "average gamer" and DA2 is suddenly no surprise.
5) It's ok that Bioware made a game primed for consoles. But don't sell it on the PC gaming market, like a lot of developers don't do anymore. Would've saved Bioware a lot of slack I suppose.

Considering the above points and what people have written about the game the past days, then I fail to see correlation between DA2 and a sweet deal. At least at full price

Of course, all this can be dismissed as "elitist PC gamer raving". Feel free to think that. But I won't be spending top dollar on this rip-off. Hopefully a lot PC gamers will join that thought. Not that it'll matter anyway, the 'classic' sp western cRPG is dead. Good thing there are other genres to enjoy. And maybe I'll pick up the GotY version of DA2 some day.

[randName]

I dislike the story, I loath that they are changing what I was allowed to decide in DA:O; but I like the side quests, the companions quests, I like the city mostly, and I like most of the combat.

I dislike people saying that someone else's taste is wrong even more.

& isn't this one of the complaining about complaining threads? (and I'm a complainer about the complainer that complains about the complainers of the the complainers).

[bill4747bill]

I like the game and think people need to realize that everyones opinion is not the same.

People still can't sepertae opinion from fact.

[bEVEsthda]

Jon Jern wrote...

I would say "umad" but this is funny.
I like the game.
I thought it was amazing.
I don't need/should to give my reasons.
Because I like the game
I like the game
"AYE" like the game.

I don't see why I should defend this if I like it. I don't care if someone else likes it or someone else doesn't like it.

I like Dragon Age 2.
Shoot me.

Oh, please, we KNOW this! We (critics of DA2's direction) know that a lot of people like DA2. Just like we know a lot of people like the Transformers 2 movie. We don't care, because we're driving a bigger issue. And that issue is pretty important.

The OP's post was very good i think.

[crimsontotem]

Davasar wrote...

The great things about this thread is...

These people defending DA2 do not care for RPGs all that much. Action/adventure games are what they enjoy, and more power to them.

They have played an action/adventure game, which while passable as best, is a far cry from the truly epic RPGs that EA/Bioware will no longer make.

I realize that those times are long gone, and that watered down, rushed shells of games are the new wave of the future.

It just means my money will no longer support such farce. I will spend it other places: where time, effort and quality is put in by the people who I make the purchase from.

Enjoy your action/adventure game.

R.I.P. Deep, intricate RPGs of Bioware.

R.I.P to the true RPGs...

[Gleym]

I wonder what Bioware needs to do in order to actually push away the people so rabidly adamant to protect them.. of course, that would imply that said people weren't already so fanatical that Bioware could release Dragon Age 3 as a FPS space-based railshooter and they'd declare it 'revolutionary!'

[FataliTensei]

The_Eejit wrote...

 This forum has been a war zone since DA2 released. We have people on both sides hurling insults at each other.

*snip*

This is so true, but look at the first few responses here and we see that this kind of product is the future of gaming. It's a good game, not as good as DA:O or even the first Mass Effect and I really doubt that we're going to get anything as good as those 2 ot even the ones that came before ever again. I mean just look at the short development time for Mass Effect 3 and that was partly developed along with the PS3 port.

[FataliTensei]

Davasar wrote...

The great things about this thread is...

These people defending DA2 do not care for RPGs all that much. Action/adventure games are what they enjoy, and more power to them.

They have played an action/adventure game, which while passable as best, is a far cry from the truly epic RPGs that EA/Bioware will no longer make.

I realize that those times are long gone, and that watered down, rushed shells of games are the new wave of the future.

It just means my money will no longer support such farce. I will spend it other places: where time, effort and quality is put in by the people who I make the purchase from.

Enjoy your action/adventure game.

R.I.P. Deep, intricate RPGs of Bioware.

Hey at least we have Japan(My best wishes be with them right now) and the Fallout series right?

Modifié par FataliTensei, 19 mars 2011 - 12:30 .

[Montana]

St. Walker wrote...

CLime wrote...
Dragon Age 2 was made to appeal to a different fanbase than Dragon Age: Origins.  Those two groups aren't exclusive, the majority of one also belong to the other.  Unfortunately, the people on the fringes of the Venn diagram decide that the other group is somehow inferior.

I think this is quite possibly the problem here. If you like the game, fine; that's your prerogative. Regardless, you have to admit it seems odd to release a sequel to a game with a completely different group of people in mind, effectively alienating the crowd that made the first installment a success.

This

DA:O was marketed as the spiritual successor of Baldurs Gate (and it kind of was).
DA2 is the spiritual successor of.... I dont' know, but not DA:O.

[Gleym]

FataliTensei wrote...

Hey at least we have Japan(My best wishes be with them right now) and the Fallout series right?

Why would you open up wounds like that? That's just cruel, man..

Modifié par Gleym, 19 mars 2011 - 12:35 .