100 réponses à ce sujet

[cin_zia]

I honestly was completely turned off from romancing him after he calls Fenris a beast that can't be tamed. I honestly got upset!

So I turned him down and killed him when he blew up the chantry (It was a really hard choice, first I suggested to help me with the templars, Idiot said no. Honestly the templars weren't bad it was just Meredith).
I really liked the head Chantry leader, she wanted peace like everyone else.
I had full friendship with him and he basically black mailed me into helping with his quest, when I was doubting it. I'm glad my Hawke took notice of the forcefullness to help him, and told him she wouldn't forget being blackmailed.

Modifié par cin_zia, 19 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[Sjofn]

rabanasty wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

rabanasty wrote... 
Fenris going so far as to express his disappointment that someone as honorable as Keeper Marethari would die, allowing Merrill to live.  

Huh, Anders certainly did that in my first playhthrough, but to my surprise, the second time I did Merril's quest (I'm on playthrough three already, I need help), Fenris didn't say anything at all.

In my second playthrough, there were two instances of this. The first go-round, Anders says the world is poorer for having Merrill in it (instead of Marethari); Fenris replies that for once, they're in agreement. I also believes there's a party banter between Fenris and Merill later on in which he mentions it further. 

Ahh, so he's not a douche on his own, I see. I did get some of his vicious banters with Merril, he and Anders need to take some chill pills. 'Course, my magehawke rivalmanced her, so he couldn't exactly throw stones in his glass house either.

[bluecuban]

I think what annoyed me the most with Anders was after I romanced Merrill, a random dialog happened while just walking through Darktown, where he asks if I think Merrill will always love me or choose the demon inside her? He just did not let up and that ended any desire I had to be Friend with him.

He'd be dead if it wasn't for Merrill herself asking me to forgive him and let him live.

At least at one point Fenris admitted he hates Merrill but won't act on it because of our Friendship.

[Helen0rz]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Anders actually gets nasty towards everyone at the end, not just Fenris. Most fans agree it's his 'other half' talking more than him, by the time act 3 rolls around. He purposely lashes out at the majority of the other companions, if not in cutscenes then in banters.

Under pressure? He's now Vengeance and no longer Anders when they became 1? I dont know. He is very douchey in Act 3. Maybe that's why his robe is called renegade something? 

I think the moment his resentment/Vengeance became "who he is", he's no longer Anders. He hasn't been since he welcomed Justice with open arms, which is why he's always jumpy when people disagree with him on mage matters. I think in Act 3, he's pretty much trying to justify blowing up the Chantry (and not blowing the Templar Hall?) later on in the story.

[DeaHamlet]

Trophonius wrote...

Anders is my favorite character in DA2, but even I would have to admit that his insults to other companions are rude and petty. If you put him with Isabela, he mocks her for sleeping with everybody and if Merrill is with him, he cruelly belittles her for succumbing to blood magic. It's disheartening to see him stoop so low like that.

I don't mind cause I think the same of Isabela *grin*.  I was happy when Anders said that.  As to the Merrill thing, I also agree with him and the only reason my characters don't tell her off is because she's so super fragile.  Anders does not approve of blood magic at all.  And Fenris is no kinder to Merrill either.  Some of the stuff he says, o.O.

[DeaHamlet]

Heidenreich wrote...

I think the best thing is being a mage romancing Fenris and being friends with him AND anders. Cause Anders is like "WTF, don't love him he hates mages! Love me!" and Fen's all "I you, only sane mage in the whole world. And this way, I know you'll never jump off the deep end cuz I can keep you safe!"

Oh my, that was so cute!  *squee*

I must give them credit though... Anders doesn't go revealing where Fenris is and Fenris does not give Anders to the templars.

Way to go self-control, dudes, all for the love of the Hawke.  *aweeee*

[SmokeyTheBear]

So....

Merrill get's chewed out and whined at the entire game by Anders, usually at points that were emotionally damaging for her...

And she's the only party member that wants to spare him.......

I believe my work here is done.

[Eshaye]

They are all pretty nasty to each other. I can't stand Fenris, so heh to each their own. You have to understand they are all strongly believe in whatever ideals they have and so their reactions to those with opposite views isn't going to be rosy.

[Damotta]

 I was a mage loving rogue with Fen at 100% friendship/romance. Don't ask how I did it But I did. Anyway. Because of this Fenris seemed less hard on mages. He was obviously disgusted when the mages did something disgusting And he would tell me he didn't agree or he knew I was doing the wrong thing but would stand with me in my descions. You don't lose friendship as easily for doing things people don't like after getting them to 100. But I found Fenris to be quite a bit more softened up by act 3. He wasn't rude just sad. Sebastian even got him praying in the chantry acording to their banter.

[Ryzaki]

teeru wrote...

The difference between Fenris and Anders being jerks to each other and Morrigan and Alistair being jerks to each other is that Alistair did not jump at the idea of selling Morrigan into a life of slavery and torture.

I'm just sayin'.

No he instead laughs in glee at the thought of her mother "visiting" her and taking over her body and the Warden letting her go into it blissfully aware. 

[Ryzaki]

Sjofn wrote...

rabanasty wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

rabanasty wrote... 
Fenris going so far as to express his disappointment that someone as honorable as Keeper Marethari would die, allowing Merrill to live.  

Huh, Anders certainly did that in my first playhthrough, but to my surprise, the second time I did Merril's quest (I'm on playthrough three already, I need help), Fenris didn't say anything at all.

In my second playthrough, there were two instances of this. The first go-round, Anders says the world is poorer for having Merrill in it (instead of Marethari); Fenris replies that for once, they're in agreement. I also believes there's a party banter between Fenris and Merill later on in which he mentions it further. 

Ahh, so he's not a douche on his own, I see. I did get some of his vicious banters with Merril, he and Anders need to take some chill pills. 'Course, my magehawke rivalmanced her, so he couldn't exactly throw stones in his glass house either.

Fen is a douche on his own. During e quest where you get the knife for Merrill if Fen is in your party after seeing one f her Clan get killed Merrill is in shock and all lie 'Why would he run from me...blah blah blah" and then Fenris goes "You ARE a monster" 

What the hell man. No cool.

[theradicalpunk]

Fenris is a bit self righteous. Take him into the Fade. He's no better then a weak mage when seduced with power.

I'm not making this up either.

Then again all of the companions can be tempted. But yeah.

Modifié par theradicalpunk, 19 mars 2011 - 08:28 .

[Helen0rz]

theradicalpunk wrote...

Fenris is a bit self righteous. Take him into the Fade. He's no better then a weak mage when seduced with power.

I'm not making this up either.

Then again all of the companions can be tempted. But yeah.

Anders cannot be tempted. He's Justice in the fade

[theradicalpunk]

The only exception. But even Hawke can be tempted.

[Chiramu]

Varric says something along the lines of, "You could do a lot worse" or something too. Anders adn Fenris dislike each other so what's the problem :/.
Fenris dislikes Anders as much as Anders dislikes Fenris.

[Thiefy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

rabanasty wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

rabanasty wrote... 
Fenris going so far as to express his disappointment that someone as honorable as Keeper Marethari would die, allowing Merrill to live.  

Huh, Anders certainly did that in my first playhthrough, but to my surprise, the second time I did Merril's quest (I'm on playthrough three already, I need help), Fenris didn't say anything at all.

In my second playthrough, there were two instances of this. The first go-round, Anders says the world is poorer for having Merrill in it (instead of Marethari); Fenris replies that for once, they're in agreement. I also believes there's a party banter between Fenris and Merill later on in which he mentions it further. 

Ahh, so he's not a douche on his own, I see. I did get some of his vicious banters with Merril, he and Anders need to take some chill pills. 'Course, my magehawke rivalmanced her, so he couldn't exactly throw stones in his glass house either.

Fen is a douche on his own. During e quest where you get the knife for Merrill if Fen is in your party after seeing one f her Clan get killed Merrill is in shock and all lie 'Why would he run from me...blah blah blah" and then Fenris goes "You ARE a monster" 

What the hell man. No cool.

Anders actually says something equally nasty. Something about being possessed by a demon and slitting wrists. All I distinctly remember was him kinda of making a joke about it in a faux voice going "AGH! Blood magic!" but he was really, really pissed too.

[Taura-Tierno]

I always felt that, while Fenris did have some hatred towards mages and nasty remarks, at least he had good reason for it, being enslaved my a magister and everything ... whereas Anders was just an ass for no valid reason, and a horrifyingly zealous one at that. I can' see Fenris just slaughtering innocents just to prove a point. So in my book, Anders is far worse, and I actually liked Fenris.

[Shockwave Pulsar]

Anders is a judgmental, whiny, rude, self-rightous douchebag, betrayer, terrorist and murderer. Every sentence of his ends with "I'm oppressed, all templars need to die, we need to start a revolution! ". At the end of the game he shows no regret for his actions and prefers to die and be remembered as a martyr or something, just like a religious extremist who blows himself up. He's also rude to everyone in the party. I guess he was just designed to be the "hated by everyone" character.

Fenris, oth, gets along with everyone, except Anders and Merrill for obvious reasons. Even though he hates mages he admits that not all are evil, unlike Anders for who all Templars are the same. And if you have high friendship with him, he actually softens up quite a bit in Act3 and supports you no matter what you decide.

Modifié par Balthamoss, 20 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[Thiefy]

Ugh, Anders did show regret for his actions. He wanted to die because he knew that what he did was wrong and the people who he killed would deserve justice just as much as any oppressed mage. he could bring them justice with his death, so he knew he had to die. in that respect he is dying for his cause.

[Ryzaki]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Anders actually says something equally nasty. Something about being possessed by a demon and slitting wrists. All I distinctly remember was him kinda of making a joke about it in a faux voice going "AGH! Blood magic!" but he was really, really pissed too.

Sure but the person I was talking too was already aware Anders is a douche. 

fen just seems to get a free pass for some people for some strange reason. 

Pretty much everyone in DA2 has douche moments. The only exception is Varric. (Merrill too for the most part even though she too gets out the douche stick on occasion). 

[Taura-Tierno]

Also, Anders is a hardcore fanatic. Fenris is open to changing his mind. In one banter with Anders, Anders says something like "Not all mages are bad" and Fenris answers, paraphrased: "No, not all. Bethany was strong." And Anders, of course, remarks upon Fenris not mentioning him as strong ... but the point is, it felt great hearing Fenris actually saying that Bethany was strong (she died in my playthrough), and that he actually accepts that some mages are good and responsible. He even seemed to be a bit sad, or at least very sympathetic towards Hawke, when Bethany died.

[Thiefy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Anders actually says something equally nasty. Something about being possessed by a demon and slitting wrists. All I distinctly remember was him kinda of making a joke about it in a faux voice going "AGH! Blood magic!" but he was really, really pissed too.

Sure but the person I was talking too was already aware Anders is a douche. 

fen just seems to get a free pass for some people for some strange reason. 

Pretty much everyone in DA2 has douche moments. The only exception is Varric. (Merrill too for the most part even though she too gets out the douche stick on occasion). 

I really like both characters and both had their moments for sure. It was just towards the end when Anders lashes out at everyone that made me a little sad and I became a little less sympathetic to him. I can't entire love or hate him or Fenris and it's difficult for me to go complete fangirl like I did with Alistair because I really do get both sides. But i think that's what the writers were trying to accomplish - to understand both sides and want to take a middle ground but be forced to pick one side or the other despite your feelings because it makes for a more compelling story, and because I think most real life scenarios are like that. It's this OR that, no inbetweens, maybes, eithers and especially not any neithers.

[Cat Fancy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Anders actually says something equally nasty. Something about being possessed by a demon and slitting wrists. All I distinctly remember was him kinda of making a joke about it in a faux voice going "AGH! Blood magic!" but he was really, really pissed too.

Sure but the person I was talking too was already aware Anders is a douche. 

fen just seems to get a free pass for some people for some strange reason. 

Pretty much everyone in DA2 has douche moments. The only exception is Varric. (Merrill too for the most part even though she too gets out the douche stick on occasion). 

What did Aveline do? I'm sure she's does something and she can be judgmental (about things with which I'm inclined to agree with, though). Just curious.

Fenris probably gets a free pass from a lot of people because he is very pretty (so pretty), less of his banter relates to his politics, and he didn't blow up a church. He and Fenris were comparably douchetacular throughout much of the game so comparisons are natural. The fact that he nevers does anything as controversial as Anders makes his fans inclined to ignore this to an extent, I think. Anders's hardline stance against the seemingly innocuous Merrill makes little sense coming from an abomination and that only makes his sympathy deficit worse. Two strikes. There are probably other reasons. I dunno. People! I don't get them. I haven't really thought about this and I'm not sure it makes sense but I'm writing my tenth sentence in this parahraph and life's too short for editing.

edit: also, yes, what the person above said. Anders boards the crazy hermit train in Act 3 and that sticks with people.

Modifié par umwhatyousay, 20 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[Shockwave Pulsar]

Ryzaki wrote...
fen just seems to get a free pass for some people for some strange reason. 

Pretty much everyone in DA2 has douche moments. The only exception is Varric. (Merrill too for the most part even though she too gets out the douche stick on occasion). 

That's because Fenris doesn't murder innocents in cold blood and doesn't betray you if you're friends with him, even if you side with the mages, whereas Anders uses and betrays you no matter what. And though Fenris has any reason to hate mages because of his background he'll admit that there are also good mages in the world, so he is more open-minded & has at least some sense of objectivity left (for Anders the world is perfectly black(circle, chantry, Templars) and white (mages), he's a blinded fanatic).
He also has friendly banter with the other companions (eg. playing cards with Aveline's husband or having a drink with Varric), while Anders is usually arguing or insulting. Maybe Fenris is different on the rivalry path, but on friendship he becomes a fairly nice guy towards the end (and he's really sweet when romanced).

But it's true that they all have their douche moments, except Isabela and Varric.