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[LordAnguis]

jbblue05 wrote...

Some of you people are really ungrateful jerks after all the Alliance has done for you.
It was the Alliance who brought you back via Cerberus with the Lazarus project.
I can't believe the Alliance nominated your Shepard's for spectre status

(Sigh) Cerberus was only considered an Alliance initiative in ME1, and I have to wonder if they're actually Alliance at all considering they're apparently founded around TIM's manifesto.

  The Alliance did not fund Cerberus in ME2. I don't know where you got that idea, but clearly you don't pay attention to anything in the game except shooting bad guys. As for the Alliance nominating Shepard for Spectre status, the COUNCIL chooses their own Spectres. We only think that they nominated Shepard because of one little bit of dialogue at the beginning of ME1. The rest of the game, its made clear the Council's had their eye on Shepard as a Spectre. THe Council sent Nihlus to evaluate him. The Alliance cooperated because, being a bunch of politicians, they want more say with the Council.
 ME2 rolls around, Anderson or Udina is the Councilor for the Alliance. One thing to note, jbblue05, is that the Alliance is not the Council, except maybe in Renegade playthroughs where you've sacrificed the original Council. The Alliance is the 'galactic face' of Earth.
  Cerberus, the Alliance, and the Council all have their good points. The Council and Cerberus I find more likely to follow because of this fact: In the COuncil, you're a Spectre (if you chose to be reinstated) and you'll have access to Spectre resources in Mass Effect 3, provided you have cut ties with Cerberus.
 Cerberus is basicaly humanity's Spectres, only they don't answer to any government. But here's something to consider: Cerberus's backers are apparently the rich and powerful. THis does not mean the Alliance itself backs them. If you actually speak to Miranda instead of assuming the Alliance are the backers, you learn that it's a bunch of corporations individuals who run them who fund Cerberus. one of those is Miranda's father.
 And yes, I 'm well aware of the whole idea of 'dummy corporations', and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a handful of those were Alliance front corporations. But the fact remains that, officially, the Alliance considers Cerberus to be terrorists since they toe the Council line.
 Me, even when I save the Collector base, I tell the Illusive Man he's working for me now. (The actual option is written, 'you're on my team, now'. Obviously, TIM's not going to be happy, but he's going to keep quiet until the Reaper threat is gone. So I see Shepard as having three or four major paths to follow in Mass Effect 3.

 Alliance Reinstatement: Possibly happening during Arrival (Hopefully by choice)
 Cerberus Loyalist: Lots of money and people devoted soley to defeating the Reapers.
 Council Spectre: Full reinstatement to this status, with the Council's full faith (minus the Turian Councilor. he's a dick no matter what. If you don't believe me, look how he reacts whether you save or kill the Rachni Queen).
  Independent Operative: This is the most likely version I see of Shepard. Basically, I see an Independent Operative gathering forces from the Council, the Alliance, Cerberus, and other places to deal with the threat of the Reapers.

 I'd like to point something out, though: depending on what you did during your playthrough, you could technically already be considered an Alliance soldier. Choices like sending certain data to Alliance High Command rather than Cerberus or keeping it yourself is a sign that your Alliance Loyalist.
 

[Felflamer]

michaelrsa wrote...

mrsph wrote...

The only thing Cerberus gets done is somehow finding more ways to ingeniously kill themselves.

And somehow being a bigger threat to it's own species survival than any other species ever could be.

You two forgot the Batarians them seem to be at war with almost all of the races because of their slave taking thing. At some point their gonna cross the line and bam all out war with the Citadel Council races.

[Felflamer]

Commander_Adept wrote...

I don't like the Alliance. They've blocked you in every possible way ("ah yes, reapers," grounding the Normandy, etc) and have never been very helpful to Shepard. In response to Shep saving the council, they give Anderson/Udina a spot on the council, but nothing at all for Shepard. I say, **** 'em. They aren't worth the time and energy that Shepard gives them. Not that Cerberus is fantastic, but definitely a superior choice. Perhaps that decision is made at the end of Mass 2 with the collector base, idk

I support Shepard getting his own faction. Being forced to side with Cerberus or the Alliance is a crappy situation, even if there is a clear winner there. I think Shepard could unite the Terminus Systems with Aria's help, only if there isn't Alliance or Cerberus involved, since the people out there don't trust either.

That was Donnel Udina not the alliance and he just a pain in everyones side just like current Turian Council member.

[LordAnguis]

Personally, I don't know which path I subscribe too. It just depends which playthrough I'm doing. My recent one, the one I'm going to be playing 'Arrival' on first, is a default John Shepard, Paragon, who was in a relationship with Liara, briefly romanced Miranda before breaking up with her, and became Liara's lover again after killing the Shadow Broker. The only reason I don't want to be forced into joining the Alliance again is because I like operating independently. Than again, the N7 Marines weren't exactly 'by-the-book', anyways, from what I understand. But my main Shep, the one above, is a re-enlisted Spectre, so it doesn't matter anyways.
Also, in regards to the idea the 'Alliance' blocks us at every turn. I wonder how many times I'm going to need to point this out, but the ALLIANCE hasn't been blocking us. THE CITADEL COUNCIL has. If anything, the only reason the Alliance has issues with Shepard is because they have to toe the Council line.
One thing to point out, though, is that according to Ken and Gabby, it was just the Alliance BRASS that tore apart Shepard's crew and reputation after his/her death. But as we can see from LotSB, there's a high-ranking officer in the brass who supports SHepard. Admiral Steven Hackett, and its been made clear he's coming in for Arrival, in person. That suggests the possibility of rejoining the Alliance. Hackett didn't extend an invitation via in-game extranet mail, but I'm guessing that's because he didn't want Alliance Internal Affairs coming at you.
Way I see it, he'll offer you two options: remain an independent Spectre and he'll work with Admiral/Councilor Anderson to keep the Alliance off our backs (which is something that Anderson himself stated he'd do in any of the playthroughs), or reinstatement answering directly to him as something like a Corsair. That's my opinion, anyways.
The main thing I want to see in Arrival is a meeting with the Council, whether via holo-conference or in person, I don't care. I just want to stick it to the Turian Councilor before ME3. I honestly don't want to deal with having to travel to the Citadel to debrief the troublesome trio and Humanity's Councilor in a Paragon playthrough just so they can feel like they're being helpful; not in the actual ME3 game, anyways.

In the end, it all depends on what playthrough you do. Some of us prefer a Renegade path and others Paragon. Way I see it, the choice for who to commit yourself to, if its in Arrival, will be something like this:
Paragon - Remain Independent, and work with everyone you can, including Cerberus. (Use them for credits and research, nothing more). Work with the Shadow Broker/Liara as an information source rather than TIM.
Neutral - Rejoin the Alliance under Hackett's command.
Renegade - Continue to serve Cerberus, kill Jack to eliminate threat to Normandy, and secure Human Dominance.

That's the plain and simple of it. Because unless Anderson's an Admiral in your playthrough, you'd probably want to be under Hackett's command in an Alliance-loyal playthrough.

[Coach]

I have no problem with the idea of "pretending" to work for the Alliance in DLC or even in portions of ME3... so long as my character can in reality be feeding the good intel to Cerberus (perhaps even leading the Alliance on a wild goose chase with faulty information).

Heck, if I could get Shepard into a position of truly changing the Alliance, I could essentially assimilate them into becoming loyal to Cerberus... and even made all the better if they never saw it coming (believing Shepard to be their loyal puppet while he is working methodically against them the whole time).

So yeah, release my Shepard back into the Alliance... I would love to see him dismantle their tired organization while uniting humanity's goals once and for all.

[Bomb In My Pants]

michaelrsa wrote...

Certainly not going to work with an organization that supports human dominance. No one species should have supremacy. Especially one that has been part of the galactic community for only three decades.

I'm a sucker for the Alliance anyhow. The idea of a the wealthiest nations on Earth banding together into a super national organization to finance colonization is something I adore.

Hell yeah I'm going back to the Alliance.

Also really looking forward to seeing/working for the Council. I've always had a fondness for the Council.

So, you would prefer if, in real life, the super powers of the world would band together? How?

There needs to be more 'get the U.S. out of the U.N.' posters.

[Bomb In My Pants]

Coach Jon wrote...

I have no problem with the idea of "pretending" to work for the Alliance in DLC or even in portions of ME3... so long as my character can in reality be feeding the good intel to Cerberus (perhaps even leading the Alliance on a wild goose chase with faulty information).

Heck, if I could get Shepard into a position of truly changing the Alliance, I could essentially assimilate them into becoming loyal to Cerberus... and even made all the better if they never saw it coming (believing Shepard to be their loyal puppet while he is working methodically against them the whole time).

So yeah, release my Shepard back into the Alliance... I would love to see him dismantle their tired organization while uniting humanity's goals once and for all.

I couldn't have put it better myself, but I'm still gonna rip on people.

[Bomb In My Pants]

LordAnguis wrote...

Personally, I don't know which path I subscribe too. It just depends which playthrough I'm doing. My recent one, the one I'm going to be playing 'Arrival' on first, is a default John Shepard, Paragon, who was in a relationship with Liara, briefly romanced Miranda before breaking up with her, and became Liara's lover again after killing the Shadow Broker. The only reason I don't want to be forced into joining the Alliance again is because I like operating independently. Than again, the N7 Marines weren't exactly 'by-the-book', anyways, from what I understand. But my main Shep, the one above, is a re-enlisted Spectre, so it doesn't matter anyways.
Also, in regards to the idea the 'Alliance' blocks us at every turn. I wonder how many times I'm going to need to point this out, but the ALLIANCE hasn't been blocking us. THE CITADEL COUNCIL has. If anything, the only reason the Alliance has issues with Shepard is because they have to toe the Council line.
One thing to point out, though, is that according to Ken and Gabby, it was just the Alliance BRASS that tore apart Shepard's crew and reputation after his/her death. But as we can see from LotSB, there's a high-ranking officer in the brass who supports SHepard. Admiral Steven Hackett, and its been made clear he's coming in for Arrival, in person. That suggests the possibility of rejoining the Alliance. Hackett didn't extend an invitation via in-game extranet mail, but I'm guessing that's because he didn't want Alliance Internal Affairs coming at you.
Way I see it, he'll offer you two options: remain an independent Spectre and he'll work with Admiral/Councilor Anderson to keep the Alliance off our backs (which is something that Anderson himself stated he'd do in any of the playthroughs), or reinstatement answering directly to him as something like a Corsair. That's my opinion, anyways.
The main thing I want to see in Arrival is a meeting with the Council, whether via holo-conference or in person, I don't care. I just want to stick it to the Turian Councilor before ME3. I honestly don't want to deal with having to travel to the Citadel to debrief the troublesome trio and Humanity's Councilor in a Paragon playthrough just so they can feel like they're being helpful; not in the actual ME3 game, anyways.

In the end, it all depends on what playthrough you do. Some of us prefer a Renegade path and others Paragon. Way I see it, the choice for who to commit yourself to, if its in Arrival, will be something like this:
Paragon - Remain Independent, and work with everyone you can, including Cerberus. (Use them for credits and research, nothing more). Work with the Shadow Broker/Liara as an information source rather than TIM.
Neutral - Rejoin the Alliance under Hackett's command.
Renegade - Continue to serve Cerberus, kill Jack to eliminate threat to Normandy, and secure Human Dominance.

That's the plain and simple of it. Because unless Anderson's an Admiral in your playthrough, you'd probably want to be under Hackett's command in an Alliance-loyal playthrough.

Hackett's a good man, but I wouldn't go back to the alliance just for him. If anything, I would try to get him to join Cerberus, maybe become the new Illusive Man and replace the current idiot in office now. If not for people like Ashley, Udina, and most of the Alliance brass, I might go back to them.

As for Cerberus, they might do things we don't like, they might sacrifice people for the greater good, but are we any different? If you had the choice to end, let's say, WW2 by sacrificing a couple thousand soldiers more than you would by letting it wage on for 5 more years would you do it? (assuming that there's no alternative) I mean, they planned for nine waves at D-Day for a reason. Obviously Cerberus isn't planning an invasion. Nope, they're torturing people. But you can use the same analogy. If you could prevent your country from being overrun, or destroyed by experimenting on someone (again, assuming there are no alternatives) would you do it. Is the life of one man or woman worth the destruction of (in my case) the United States. Hell, I'd do for any ally of ours.......Except China.

My point is, even though Cerberus does a bunch of disturbing ****, it's probably going to turn out to be worth it. Now I'm questioning whether I should have blown up that base.

[LordAnguis]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

LordAnguis wrote...

Personally, I don't know which path I subscribe too. It just depends which playthrough I'm doing. My recent one, the one I'm going to be playing 'Arrival' on first, is a default John Shepard, Paragon, who was in a relationship with Liara, briefly romanced Miranda before breaking up with her, and became Liara's lover again after killing the Shadow Broker. The only reason I don't want to be forced into joining the Alliance again is because I like operating independently. Than again, the N7 Marines weren't exactly 'by-the-book', anyways, from what I understand. But my main Shep, the one above, is a re-enlisted Spectre, so it doesn't matter anyways.
Also, in regards to the idea the 'Alliance' blocks us at every turn. I wonder how many times I'm going to need to point this out, but the ALLIANCE hasn't been blocking us. THE CITADEL COUNCIL has. If anything, the only reason the Alliance has issues with Shepard is because they have to toe the Council line.
One thing to point out, though, is that according to Ken and Gabby, it was just the Alliance BRASS that tore apart Shepard's crew and reputation after his/her death. But as we can see from LotSB, there's a high-ranking officer in the brass who supports SHepard. Admiral Steven Hackett, and its been made clear he's coming in for Arrival, in person. That suggests the possibility of rejoining the Alliance. Hackett didn't extend an invitation via in-game extranet mail, but I'm guessing that's because he didn't want Alliance Internal Affairs coming at you.
Way I see it, he'll offer you two options: remain an independent Spectre and he'll work with Admiral/Councilor Anderson to keep the Alliance off our backs (which is something that Anderson himself stated he'd do in any of the playthroughs), or reinstatement answering directly to him as something like a Corsair. That's my opinion, anyways.
The main thing I want to see in Arrival is a meeting with the Council, whether via holo-conference or in person, I don't care. I just want to stick it to the Turian Councilor before ME3. I honestly don't want to deal with having to travel to the Citadel to debrief the troublesome trio and Humanity's Councilor in a Paragon playthrough just so they can feel like they're being helpful; not in the actual ME3 game, anyways.

In the end, it all depends on what playthrough you do. Some of us prefer a Renegade path and others Paragon. Way I see it, the choice for who to commit yourself to, if its in Arrival, will be something like this:
Paragon - Remain Independent, and work with everyone you can, including Cerberus. (Use them for credits and research, nothing more). Work with the Shadow Broker/Liara as an information source rather than TIM.
Neutral - Rejoin the Alliance under Hackett's command.
Renegade - Continue to serve Cerberus, kill Jack to eliminate threat to Normandy, and secure Human Dominance.

That's the plain and simple of it. Because unless Anderson's an Admiral in your playthrough, you'd probably want to be under Hackett's command in an Alliance-loyal playthrough.

Hackett's a good man, but I wouldn't go back to the alliance just for him. If anything, I would try to get him to join Cerberus, maybe become the new Illusive Man and replace the current idiot in office now. If not for people like Ashley, Udina, and most of the Alliance brass, I might go back to them.

As for Cerberus, they might do things we don't like, they might sacrifice people for the greater good, but are we any different? If you had the choice to end, let's say, WW2 by sacrificing a couple thousand soldiers more than you would by letting it wage on for 5 more years would you do it? (assuming that there's no alternative) I mean, they planned for nine waves at D-Day for a reason. Obviously Cerberus isn't planning an invasion. Nope, they're torturing people. But you can use the same analogy. If you could prevent your country from being overrun, or destroyed by experimenting on someone (again, assuming there are no alternatives) would you do it. Is the life of one man or woman worth the destruction of (in my case) the United States. Hell, I'd do for any ally of ours.......Except China.

My point is, even though Cerberus does a bunch of disturbing ****, it's probably going to turn out to be worth it. Now I'm questioning whether I should have blown up that base.

Bomb In My Pants, first, that's an interesting screen name.

I think I need to clarify something of my position for everyone, and responding to you is the best way to do it.

I'm one of those people who truly get involved in a game. So depending on the playthrough I'm doing, I go with how I think my Shepard's thought processes are. Right now, I've finished playing my Paragon Shepard, who I'm hoping to make into an independent operative. (As you can see, that's the one I favor the most).

That said, when I'm not going through any of the Mass Effect games, which is usually a break period of 3 or 4 days, if that, I am more Cerberus-centric. Why? Here's my explanation:

TIM is a calculating individual who makes sacrifices and manipulates the situation best for humanity. Right now, with the Alliance apparently letting the Council tell them what to do, Cerberus is Humanity, as TIM says. I actually admire TIM. He's a jack***, but he doesn't pretend to be your friend or father figure, like so many in the Alliance do. They let the Council dictate the terms. Cerberus's main goal is to see Humanity rise to power as the dominant force in the galaxy. And if anyone thinks the Alliance doesn't want that as much as Cerberus, you're living in a dream-world where the Alliance is some happy-go-lucky group who wants alien civilizations to trample all over them.
 TIM also is no apologist. He has my respect for that. He doesn't allow personal feelings to get in the way except in extreme cases. One thing I have thought about is his reaction to the Collector base being destroyed: both men had heightened emotions, both Shepard and TIM. TIM , because despite his anti-alien tendencies, wanted the technology to prepare for the Reapers and guard humanity against any future threats.
 Also, when it comes to Cerberus's funding: your telling me that the Alliance can't find out who the backers are? Or the Council Spectres, at least? I'd bet anything that the Alliance has a few dummy corporations it uses to funnel money into Cerberus for research. A lot of people forget something that Admiral Kahoku said: "They're an Alliance black ops. group, but they've gone completely rogue! They're trying to create some kind of super-soldier!" Those words are part of the message he gets to SHepard, which leads Shepard to his first, canonical, meeting with Cerberus.
 A lot people go on and on about Cerberus's deeds. Well, last I checked, plenty of real-life gov'ts have black ops. units whose sole purpose is to test out new technologies, weapons, etc., for both the military and the people they represent. Anytime the news hits, there's always outrage and anger, but a good majority secretly think that it's for the best those operations existed.
 To put it in Mass Effect terms: I'd bet anything that Nirali Bhatia's body was a part of a Cerberus experiment to learn how to defend them. Boskner was a scapegoat. But please note, that's speculation on my part.
 Cerberus, I think, is a necessary evil, just as Liara taking position as the Shadow Broker is one. The only unnecessary evil, I think, is Udina and the three non-human COuncilors. They all stick their heads in the sand and mumble nursery rhymes so they can pretend all's good in the galaxy.

 Speaking of Udina....anyone here use the Shadow Broker console to begin the Smear Campaign against him? I did.

[LordAnguis]

Oh, by the way: Bomb In My Pants, there's a few people who apparently think Hackett already is Cerberus. We'll have to see in Arrival, I'm guessing.

[GreenDragon37]

LordAnguis wrote...

Oh, by the way: Bomb In My Pants, there's a few people who apparently think Hackett already is Cerberus. We'll have to see in Arrival, I'm guessing.

If Hackett is Cerberus he's getting a bullet in his ass. I pray Bioware doesn't pull that card. They probably won't.

[Bomb In My Pants]

LordAngius, please don't misunderstand: I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was simply adding on to your comment. As for those people who seem to think that Hackett is Cerberus, well, they're nuts. That's stretching it- a lot.

About the screen name: I couldn't pass up a chance to make fun of that Christmas-Day bomber. I just hope people are either smart enough to realize what it is, or at least ask.

[Bomb In My Pants]

I completely agree with you about all that other stuff though. But did Kahoku really say that about a super-soldier? I don't remember it. I remember him saying that Cerberus is a Alliance black ops. group, but that's about it. He probably did say that. Anyway, I hope the CB projects I shut down in ME1 don't have anything to do with this super-soldier. I want to see a Spartan walk out of a Cerberus facility!

[Tilarta]

DPSSOC wrote...

Hey immoral/unethical experiments are technically stuff.  Though I question how many have actually gone wrong.  My count is 3; Rachni, Teltin, and Overlord.

Let's not forget Grayson and converting him to a Reaper avatar.

And then there's the team they sent to study the deceased Reaper who ended up as Husks.

At this point, I'm not trusting Cerberus to research new flavors of toothpaste!
They'll probably accidentally create cyanide flavor and kill everyone who uses it......


*hangs sign on the wall*
We have gone 3 days without a Cerberus project blowing up in our face.
"Wait, what, the Illusive Man is contacting us?"
*removes the number 3 and replaces it with a 0*

[LordAnguis]

Bomb In My Pants,

I know you weren't disagreeing with me and only adding to my comment. I agree that Hackett as Cerberus is not going to be it. I just see Hackett as believing Shepard to be their best chance, since he'll take whatever risks are necessary to defend the galaxy, whether he's a Spectre or not.

GreenDragon, I like your comment about if BioWare pulls that. I think I'd do the same thing. I may like Cerberus for the most part, but pulling that in the final piece of the Second Act? Not happening on my watch. By the way, I didn't see if you responded to my last post beyond the 'It's 3 a.m. I'll tackle this one tomorrow.' You seem to be one of those that actually does these discussions in good humor, so I was looking forward to seeing you dismantling my newest set of arguments against Alliance/Council support.

BIMP, sorry, but I'm not going to spell it out every time:

I'll have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure that's what Kahoku thought they were doing. Considering Cerberus's experiments that we know of now, though, I'd guess they were more along the lines of learning how to counteract the affects. But without Kahoku knowing about that....
Anyways, apparently the super-soldier part was more about the thing on Akuze, as you learn about from Toombs. It's been a while since I played ME1 in that mission, but I think I remember him saying something about seeing how much damage a Thresher Maw venom attack would do to a person. Now that I think about it, I think that was part of their super-soldier project. And I'm guessing their first prototype was none other than Cmr. Shepard.

Unless anyone thinks Shepard in the first game, even wearing the most protective armor, could have withstood a Thresher Maw attack like he does in ME2?

[Bomb In My Pants]

You're probably right about him being the first prototype because, as you said, the way he was able to combat the thresher maw in ME2.

BTW, sorry if I seem a bit naggy, but I'm hardly ever on anymore.

[LordAnguis]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

You're probably right about him being the first prototype because, as you said, the way he was able to combat the thresher maw in ME2.

BTW, sorry if I seem a bit naggy, but I'm hardly ever on anymore.

Understandable. I've only recently begun to post much in the forums, mainly because I didn't want to get drawn into arguments, which was going to inevitably happen. After all, Alliance and Cerberus fans don't mesh well, and you can't seem to create a thread for Cerberus fans only without an Alliance  Loyalist showing up to spoil the party. But then again, I haven't been on the forums very long, so for all I know there is something like that in the 'fan creation' section. Problem is, anyone can post. Is it even possible to block someone from posting in a thread you start in these forums?

[Bomb In My Pants]

Yeah, a while back, I made a forum about a conversation I'd had where one of my friends thought that Shep could be considered a merc. A lot of people started posting in it. I posted that I agreed with this one guy- just one small sentence. And then some a**hole jumped on me, saying that I was "bumping my poll." Then he decided to make a big deal about it when I responded.

[Labrev]

I have to admit though, T.I.M. is an invaluable ally in fighting the Reapers, like him or not. I know I personally don't approve of his organization and am not a big fan of his either, but still. T.I.M. knows where to put Shepard on the trail, Shepard can execute the mission better than anyone else and helps allay concerns about Cerberus's dark reputation by getting the job done and being a legend himself.

If I could comfortably keep working for Cerberus I probably would, even though I am the last person to support what they do. Only reason I'm not comfortable doing that is because there's really no sound reason to trust T.I.M. - can't guage his motives fully, what his plans are for me, what the rest of Cerberus is up to. Too many questions, unknowns, no trust... safer to avoid.

[Felflamer]

The Illusive Man to me is someone who should be removed from power asap. For me playing a the "bad guy/girl" in ME and ME 2 is hard. It could just be me liking being the hero or I can't agree with the choice your asked to make to be Renegade. I will say this IF we could remove the Illusive Man and make shepard the head of Cerberus id side with them. But id also have to be able to clean up how it's run no more burtel experiments and clean it's rep with the other races/facrions.

[DarkBahamut]

Wel... seeing as we screwed up cerberus a lot in ME1 and ended needing to work with them in ME2, I'm sure in ME3 we will work for the Blue Suns \\o/

[CulturalGeekGirl]

In my opinion, both story-wise and logically, in the third game you should be working for Team Shepard. It's the only team that's proved reliable, after all.

You now have some leeway (or rather, I do, as a mostly paragon Spectre). If you play your cards right, you can get both the Alliance and Cerberus cooperating with you. Your skills are the carrot, the other guys having access to your skills is the stick.

"I could get support from Cerberus, but then I'd have to put their goals over those of the council. You wouldn't want that, would you? Allow me to continue to operate autonomously, and give me resources." 

"I could go back and be a full Spectre again, but then, if they asked me to, I'd have to use all this Cerberus knowledge I now have to take you guys down. Did I mention I also know the Shadow Broker? Isn't it better to give me the Normandy and her crew and let me work independently?" 

It's sort of like in Supernatural, when you have the choice between working for Team Heaven and Team Hell. You know what? They're BOTH authoritarian jerks! Team free will, all the way, baby.

[Badpie]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

LordAnguis wrote...

Oh, by the way: Bomb In My Pants, there's a few people who apparently think Hackett already is Cerberus. We'll have to see in Arrival, I'm guessing.

If Hackett is Cerberus he's getting a bullet in his ass. I pray Bioware doesn't pull that card. They probably won't.

I've always thought at the highest levels Cerberus and the Alliance were in bed together.  They could never officially be so on paper because Cerberus does some shady stuff.  It would be a PR nightmare for the Alliance if people found out and could link it to them.  So Cerberus gets their hands dirty and get called a terrorist organization and the Alliance gets to reap the benefits of their research with a clear conscience.  Not saying it's the most moral or ideal situation, but few government/military alliances are.  And like I said, this would only be at the very top.  Your average Cerberus or Alliance employee would have no idea.

[LordAnguis]

Badpie wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

LordAnguis wrote...

Oh, by the way: Bomb In My Pants, there's a few people who apparently think Hackett already is Cerberus. We'll have to see in Arrival, I'm guessing.

If Hackett is Cerberus he's getting a bullet in his ass. I pray Bioware doesn't pull that card. They probably won't.

I've always thought at the highest levels Cerberus and the Alliance were in bed together.  They could never officially be so on paper because Cerberus does some shady stuff.  It would be a PR nightmare for the Alliance if people found out and could link it to them.  So Cerberus gets their hands dirty and get called a terrorist organization and the Alliance gets to reap the benefits of their research with a clear conscience.  Not saying it's the most moral or ideal situation, but few government/military alliances are.  And like I said, this would only be at the very top.  Your average Cerberus or Alliance employee would have no idea.

Finally found this thread again. I think that there are people high-up in the Alliance who are secretly in partnership with TIM. Whether they're using dummy corporations to fund Cerberus projects or even suggest projects to pursue, I think that would be interesting.

 I personally think the final scene between TIM and Shepard was one that was so intense because of the emotions involved and the diametrically-opposed viewpoints of the two men. (If you destroyed the base, that is). TIM is an at all-costs kind of person, while a Paragon Shepard tends to believe in diplomacy when possible. (Then again, there are Renegade choices for 'diplomacy', as it witnessed on Illium, the Flotilla, etc.) I bet anything that we get a message from TIM in our Normandy mail apologizing for the hasty words. TIM, I think, allowed his emotions to get the better of him, and will regret his words only because of the fact that he's turned Shepard against him.

 Also, I'd like to point out how I view the Paragon/Renegade thing. A lot of people see the Renegade scale as being the same as the Dark Side scale on KOTOR. From my understanding, this is not the case. The scores seem more to do with what kind of 'hero' you want to portray for the human race. A Paragon is one who is willing to not only work with aliens, but actively encourages such things, as seen in those dialogue choices. A Renegade is one who has the choice of preferring human company, or just being very ruthless and seemingly emotionless. Many times in my Engineer/Renegade playthrough, I had a lot of people asking me about one thing or another. (Ash with her mistrust of aliens). Despite that particular Shepard's own dislike of aliens (as shown by his aiding Finch)  he'll get after her for questioning the placement of members of the squad.
 
 Also, a lot of people say the Renegade options are 'jack***' only choices. I'd like to point out that in one of our conversations with Miranda, one of the Renegade options is labeled (Kiss Her). That's a Renegade option, but without the instant death or verbal beat-down that everyone sees it as.

[AcidRelic]

In my game I'm STILL a Specter so technically I'm Council not Alliance or Cerberus. Councils own "rules" I can help or hinder who I need to in order to keep the piece of the galexy, even though in some instances I have to do it "under" the radar, so to speak.

Modifié par AcidRelic, 24 mars 2011 - 04:59 .