75 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

They're stuck at the Gallows because they can't pass immigration.

[Deadlysyns]

Foolsfolly wrote...

They're stuck at the Gallows because they can't pass immigration.

Thats because its them plus one you know and they always forget to Declare the plus one 

[Foolsfolly]

Gabeker wrote...

the whole mage / blood mage / demon mythos in Dragon Age is basically flawed story concept.

so far all the mages in da 2 are whiny pansies that can't say no to drugs, I mean demons.

It's a perfectly fine concept that they forgot about in DA2. It's a forbidden art of magic because you have to deal with demons to learn it. A demon will often trick a stupid or naive mage into a bad deal and they become an Abomination.

The problem arises when DA2 says any stressed mage will turn to Blood Magic. That makes Blood Magic much more common, like any mage can easily figure out how to use it. If that's the case there's no reason to deal with demons and thus no real temptation to become an Abomination.

The whole 'stressing them into becoming Abominations' thing is weak as is the 'idol made me do it' twist later.

Although, Anders and Wynne were both Abominations in a manner of speaking. Seems Spirit/Mage Abominations are prettier and more sane than the Demon/Mage Abominations. That's something that needs some clarification too.

[Deadlysyns]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Gabeker wrote...

the whole mage / blood mage / demon mythos in Dragon Age is basically flawed story concept.

so far all the mages in da 2 are whiny pansies that can't say no to drugs, I mean demons.

It's a perfectly fine concept that they forgot about in DA2. It's a forbidden art of magic because you have to deal with demons to learn it. A demon will often trick a stupid or naive mage into a bad deal and they become an Abomination.

The problem arises when DA2 says any stressed mage will turn to Blood Magic. That makes Blood Magic much more common, like any mage can easily figure out how to use it. If that's the case there's no reason to deal with demons and thus no real temptation to become an Abomination.

The whole 'stressing them into becoming Abominations' thing is weak as is the 'idol made me do it' twist later.

Although, Anders and Wynne were both Abominations in a manner of speaking. Seems Spirit/Mage Abominations are prettier and more sane than the Demon/Mage Abominations. That's something that needs some clarification too.

Demons enslave the human host Spirits just hitch a ride 

[Foolsfolly]

Justice didn't just hitch a ride. If he had then so much of the final act would have been vastly different.

[Deadlysyns]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Justice didn't just hitch a ride. If he had then so much of the final act would have been vastly different.

Well Justice wasn't Justice anymore he Hitched a Ride with Anders because it seemed like a good choice turned out it wasn't 

[Foolsfolly]

...whatever.

See this is why there are Dragon Cults. It's so much easier to grasp. "The dragon is tougher than your god and if it eats me it's because I have impure thoughts about the Dragon. Praise be to the Dragon."

[Deadlysyns]

Foolsfolly wrote...

...whatever.

See this is why there are Dragon Cults. It's so much easier to grasp. "The dragon is tougher than your god and if it eats me it's because I have impure thoughts about the Dragon. Praise be to the Dragon."

yeah i dunno maybe Anders wasn't a good host and he had Dirty thoughts about someone who Justice didn't like 

[Fennel]

This quest is, by far, the worst quest in the game. You could be a mage harboring three apostates, have slaughtered the Arishok and his entire guard by massive usage of blood magic, and openly supported Orsino...and they still decide to attack you.

For no real reason.

It gets worse: The quest tells you to listen in and not attack. I reloaded 10 times to try this but it's not possible, the cutscene makes you WALK UP TO THEM. And then prevents you from trying the diplomatic approach. You are forced, for no good reason whatsoever, to slaughter your allies, while both sides know that you are their biggest supporter.

Same in the warehouse. You can't sneak and listen, no, you walk right up to them. It's lazy writing and incredibly rushed, you can tell where EA forced the bioware folks to get done so the game can be sold.

Grace being nuts doesn't explain this at all: The templers attack, too.

Seriously, this rebellion was exactly what the circle should have been like, save Grace.

[Foolsfolly]

Let's not blame EA so quickly. The whole quest seems to be focused around one mage's misplaced desire for revenge.

That could have made for an interesting mission. The problem is every mage and templar there (and at the warehouse) attacks you regardless. If you had been a mage supporter and said the proper things then that one idiot mage should have been the only person attacking you.

After all, what did the other mages gain from attacking an influential supporter of their cause? Perhaps the whole mission should have been divided into two. One about the revenge and the other about a group of Templar/Mages who want to oust Meredith, which you can help or take down.

As is it is a weird quest that only leaves you confused. Why did my potential allies say I was a Templar supporter? Why did they attack instead of reason? Why did they kidnap Bethany from the Circle for this?

[Deadlysyns]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Let's not blame EA so quickly. The whole quest seems to be focused around one mage's misplaced desire for revenge.

That could have made for an interesting mission. The problem is every mage and templar there (and at the warehouse) attacks you regardless. If you had been a mage supporter and said the proper things then that one idiot mage should have been the only person attacking you.

After all, what did the other mages gain from attacking an influential supporter of their cause? Perhaps the whole mission should have been divided into two. One about the revenge and the other about a group of Templar/Mages who want to oust Meredith, which you can help or take down.

As is it is a weird quest that only leaves you confused. Why did my potential allies say I was a Templar supporter? Why did they attack instead of reason? Why did they kidnap Bethany from the Circle for this?

yea Especially Since Thrask was leading them and he knows you 

[AlexXIV]

No it's not just you. It's a rather bad quest.

[Deadlysyns]

yes it is i mean i am such a Meredith supporter because i am trying to help you mages out here

[Wulfram]

Yes, that quest is really bad. It seems as if they didn't have time to do a mages supporter version of the quest, and so tried to cram everyone into the templar path.

[Suron]

a lot of quests don't make sense.

in fact if you play a mage the entire game doesn't make sense..you're using magic so open it's stupid that nothing is even really said about it or that Templars don't get wind of it.

Especially at the Arishok fight...so many damn people would have seen you casting spells it's idiotic. The entire Templars vs Mages thing is so contrived it's pathetic.

[Hexsun]

I agree it does not make sense if you are opposed to Meredith. Why would you want to slaughter those on the same side? It's plain retarded, these are the mages who haven't turned to blood magic and the good templars. Fail Bioware, fail.

[Stevie 402]

Deadlysyns wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Most (all?) Blood Mages learn Blood Magic from demons. Which means they make a deal with demons, which apparently usually ends with the Demon taking control of the Mage.

Thus the Abomination.

The Warden sold Connor to learn Blood Magic (if the Warden was even a Mage, Varric's forgotten) and apparently Orinso learned it from a book. But I assume most mages learn it from demons.

 Orsino learned how to turn into a Weak Harvester from a book good for him 

Yes.. He did not learn enough blood magic to turn into the nearly impossible to beat Harvester like in Amglarrak or amarrack or mybuttcrack or whatever that dlc was called

[MKDAWUSS]

Rybciek wrote...

Is it just me or does this quest make absolutely no sense? Starts off reasonable, but then you end up slaughtering an army of Templars and mages who are working against Meredith - doesn't that mean you're on the same side? Then the Templar Keran talks to you as if you're on Meredith's side and the only conversation options are "I'll kill you" or "Leave".

I've only just finished the warehouse, but it makes zero continuity sense. 

All of Act III makes no sense IMO

[JakePT]

When I played this quest I really had no idea what the hell was going on. I thought I'd run into some massive bug where the game had reset all my decisions. This and Merrill's quest cutscene occurring before the actual quest had me extremely confused at what the hell had happened to my game.

[whitless256]

Suron wrote...

a lot of quests don't make sense.

in fact if you play a mage the entire game doesn't make sense..you're using magic so open it's stupid that nothing is even really said about it or that Templars don't get wind of it.

Especially at the Arishok fight...so many damn people would have seen you casting spells it's idiotic. The entire Templars vs Mages thing is so contrived it's pathetic.

But in Act 3, they DO know you're an apostate.  Meredith knows you're an apostate but really can't touch you because you're the champion of Kirkwall.  She does make threats if you refuse to help her hunt down those mages and invokes the fact that she, by all rights, should not be allowing you to live freely in Kirkwall.  She also acknowledges that she knows Anders is an apostate as well.  (not sure about Merrill.  I never brought her to the meeting with Meredith.) 

Read the codex.  Everyone knows what you are in Act 3, mostly because of watching you kill the Arishok as a mage.  Meredith also sees you use magic to fight Qunari and says "I will overlook your use of magic for the moment."  If you didn't notice these dialogue points, maybe that's why you're confused about a lot of the quests.

As for this quest, I do think it was a bit rushed when it comes to writing, but I don't think it's the total mess a lot of people do.  You are dealing with a revenge obsessed pride abomination here.  It's not a huge leap to assume that she controled the Templars at the meeting with blood maging.  It's also not a huge leap to assume that, as the leader of this group, she's been telling them for Maker knows how long that the Champion can't be trusted.  That he supports the Templars.  Who are you gonna believe?  The Champion whom you've never met, or the woman you trust with your life?  Just saying.

[mopotter]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Starts off reasonable?

If you're a mage supporter you're sent and they all instantly attack you and call you a Templar supporter. From that moment on it never makes sense.

It does make more sense if you are a Templar supporter, but then like you said it devolves into the every mage in this game is crazy syndrome.

Yes.  I kept trying different companions to see if having the wrong one brought this on, but NO, it dosen't matter.  They accuse me of working with a woman I have been telling everyone is nuts and there is no option to say - what are you talking about, I'm on your side.  

There is a lot in DA2 I enjoyed, but there is a whole lot I'm disapointed with.  

[WarlordDM]

Quick question, were you able to kill her after you kill Decimus when you first meet Grace? And if so, how does it affect this quest?

[ymatis]

it can make sense even if you are a mage supporter:

orsino tells you at the start of the quest that if people will know that blood mages that escaped from circle are trying to kill Meredith it will make people see the mages as evil and will blame them for any blood spill that may occur, and that will give meredith a good reason to use the rite of anulment(spelling). moreover it will probably make all the templers Believe in meredith causes and not see her as mad/demented woman.

Orsino(at some point at least..) wants to draw a clear picture about the mages: most of them are not blood mages/possed by demons. they are victims to the templars brutality and they fight with legit means for a legit cause.

Modifié par ymatis, 20 mars 2011 - 03:25 .

[Raziel2001au]

The whole time during this quest I was thinking it's weird that your character didn't even bother trying to persuade them he/she isn't against them or following Meridith. Very unrealistic, ANYONE in that situation would have said something, rather than just go, 'oh well, I'll just slaughter everyone instead of explaining things'

[Silveryne]

whitless256 wrote...

Suron wrote...

a lot of quests don't make sense.

in fact if you play a mage the entire game doesn't make sense..you're using magic so open it's stupid that nothing is even really said about it or that Templars don't get wind of it.

Especially at the Arishok fight...so many damn people would have seen you casting spells it's idiotic. The entire Templars vs Mages thing is so contrived it's pathetic.

But in Act 3, they DO know you're an apostate.  Meredith knows you're an apostate but really can't touch you because you're the champion of Kirkwall.  She does make threats if you refuse to help her hunt down those mages and invokes the fact that she, by all rights, should not be allowing you to live freely in Kirkwall.  She also acknowledges that she knows Anders is an apostate as well.  (not sure about Merrill.  I never brought her to the meeting with Meredith.) 

Read the codex.  Everyone knows what you are in Act 3, mostly because of watching you kill the Arishok as a mage.  Meredith also sees you use magic to fight Qunari and says "I will overlook your use of magic for the moment."  If you didn't notice these dialogue points, maybe that's why you're confused about a lot of the quests.

As for this quest, I do think it was a bit rushed when it comes to writing, but I don't think it's the total mess a lot of people do.  You are dealing with a revenge obsessed pride abomination here.  It's not a huge leap to assume that she controled the Templars at the meeting with blood maging.  It's also not a huge leap to assume that, as the leader of this group, she's been telling them for Maker knows how long that the Champion can't be trusted.  That he supports the Templars.  Who are you gonna believe?  The Champion whom you've never met, or the woman you trust with your life?  Just saying.

This. Bioware isn't beating you over the head with what happens, you have to draw your own conclusions. It's different writing than most are used to.