40 réponses à ce sujet

[MisanthropePrime]

At first, I thought the war over the Tome of Koslun was a little silly. While it's a first edition, it's still just a book. The Qunari aren't known for being materialistic, so fighting a war over a relic seemed a little odd... until I thought, "wait, what if it was the ONLY copy", or at least, one of a few.

Another thing that tuned me in is the fact that Fenris cannot read. While, yes, he's a slave and would have no real need to read based on his backstory, we kind of assume characters are literate in fantasy games: no one's suprised that Hawke can read the messages he gets, after all. Still, it does make one wonder about the prevalence of literacy in Thedas. If books are exceedingly rare and expensive, there's no reason for anyone but scholas and the nobility to read, as the printed page cannot become consumer media without industrial production.

Another interesting factoid is that Varric tells his stories mostly through lyrical poetry and other oral forms of storytelling. His tales are considered to be lowbrow, "pulp" stories fit for public amusement, and yet, as far as I know, he doesn't PUBLISH his works, he has to tell the stories. Is this because there's no economical method of selling those stories?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Books are made when dwarves run their beards across paper, while the hair is covered in ink. They're so awesome, it alligns perfectly into what they want.

However, Varric can't do that, because he likes his beard short.

And he also can't start with, "No ****, there I was."

[Deadlysyns]

SmokeyTheBear wrote...

Books are made when dwarves run their beards across paper, while the hair is covered in ink. They're so awesome, it alligns perfectly into what they want.

However, Varric can't do that, because he likes his beard short.

And he also can't start with, "No ****, there I was."

Don't Forget about him making that Giant Don't Sign for Aveline to hit the Undesirables with 

[Silveryne]

Varric writes the "Hard in Hightown" series ("Hard in Hightown: Siege Harder. What does this even mean? Varric must be stopped!" and a conversation with Aveline.). Which is apparently about the Kirkwall guards, and not smut like I first thought.

Bookcopying might be quite a profession in Thedas if there is no printing press. But from what I understood the Tome of Koslun was the original book and an important philosophical or religious text to the Qunari (those that follow the Qun, not just the race of Ox-men).

High literacy rates in developed countries are pretty modern. Ferelden isn't modern, and the idea of people below a certain class being unable to read makes sense. Hawke can probably read and write because Momma Hawke-Amell was nobility.

[sth128]

I believe printing press is available in Thedas; after all we read tons of texts in the course of the game, and Verric is a known writer. As for literacy, I think only the nobles can read, or at the very least, the lower castes are probably much less educated.

The Qunari tome is important because it is written by the hands of someone they held sacred. In a way it's like their first-edition bible. Just because we have photographic reproduction of the Mona Lisa today doesn't make the original cheap. If you stole that painting you can bet the Quanari will be on your ass... Qunari from Orlais...

(yes, there'll be horny Frenchmen coming after you)

Modifié par sth128, 19 mars 2011 - 08:20 .

[SmokeyTheBear]

I mean, look at me. It's not that difficult to learn how to read.

I'm a bear, and I'm on the forums.

[David Gaider]

MisanthropePrime wrote...
At first, I thought the war over the Tome of Koslun was a little silly. While it's a first edition, it's still just a book. The Qunari aren't known for being materialistic, so fighting a war over a relic seemed a little odd... until I thought, "wait, what if it was the ONLY copy", or at least, one of a few.

The Tome of Koslun is one of the original texts written by the philosopher Koslun, from whom the Qun originates. Compare it to the Qur'an or the Bible.

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 mars 2011 - 08:28 .

[Silveryne]

David Gaider wrote...

The Tome of Koslun is one of the original texts written by the philosopher Koslun, from whom the Qun originates. Compare it to the Qur'an or the Bible.

I said that in another thread earlier... Glad to know that I had the right idea of what it was and was not completely fumbling around in the dark.

You don't have to answer this, but I'm curious if Koslun is an actual name, or is it a rank, profession, or title?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Qur'an
Qun
Qunari

You, my good sir, are priceless.

[Deadlysyns]

Silveryne wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The Tome of Koslun is one of the original texts written by the philosopher Koslun, from whom the Qun originates. Compare it to the Qur'an or the Bible.

I said that in another thread earlier... Glad to know that I had the right idea of what it was and was not completely fumbling around in the dark.

You don't have to answer this, but I'm curious if Koslun is an actual name, or is it a rank, profession, or title?

Assuming the Qunari wrote it i would Assume Title like Arishok or Sten 

[Silveryne]

Deadlysyns wrote...

Assuming the Qunari wrote it i would Assume Title like Arishok or Sten 

Yeah, but I thought that title system was a distinctly Qunari thing? And I thought Qunari was simply referring to the followers of the Qun (like a follower of Christ is Christian). It'd make sense if Koslun was the title of the gentleman, like Christ wasn't actually a name, but a title meaning "The Anointed One".

I'm mostly wondering if there was a tradition among the pre-Qunari people that included names, but got discarded due to being too blasphemous. It'd be yet another parallel. The religion that Islam replaced would largely be anathema, for example, to your modern Muslim.

[TexasToast712]

A wizard does it.

[Deadlysyns]

Silveryne wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

Assuming the Qunari wrote it i would Assume Title like Arishok or Sten 

Yeah, but I thought that title system was a distinctly Qunari thing? And I thought Qunari was simply referring to the followers of the Qun (like a follower of Christ is Christian). It'd make sense if Koslun was the title of the gentleman, like Christ wasn't actually a name, but a title meaning "The Anointed One".

I'm mostly wondering if there was a tradition among the pre-Qunari people that included names, but got discarded due to being too blasphemous. It'd be yet another parallel. The religion that Islam replaced would largely be anathema, for example, to your modern Muslim.

Do we really have to get into soo much Religious stuff 

[Silveryne]

It's probably a stupid question that likely won't be answered, but I'm just curious. The lore is complex and interesting, as well as integral to the story.

Edit: I hope everyone who thinks they're quoting Anders with the "A wizard did it." realizes they're actually quoting Xena: Warrior Princess. > Edit Edit: Well, the Simpsons version. IT STILL COUNTS.

Modifié par Silveryne, 19 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[Wulfram]

I'd guess Koslun is rank/profession, but one which has only ever been held by one person.

Doesn't Aveline suggest that Varric might get his presses confiscated at one point? I think it's when the Blooming Rose advertisements get muddled with some guard things?

[StarcloudSWG]

I would suggest that Koslun is a personal name, and perhaps the only personal name Qunari speak in public.

Qunari do have personal names; they have to have *some* way of identifying which of several thousand Sten is which. I expect, though, they don't use personal identifiers with strangers or outsiders.

[hismastersvoice]

There obviously have to be some sort of press printing available in Thedas if only because books are so common. They may not have movable type, but block printing is a relatively simple, if more expensive way of doing it. Aveline even mentions those.

[Urbanus Venator]

Deadlysyns wrote...
Do we really have to get into soo much Religious stuff 

In this case, it's a fairly useful analogy.

[Kilshrek]

Aveline specifically says that Varric owns printing blocks in one conversation. Just thought I'd put this out there.

here
* Aveline: You are very close to losing your printing blocks, Varric.
* Varric: Once more I am falsely accused of whatever it is that I am accused of. Falsely.
* Aveline: Someone swapped the text of my recruitment poster with some filth from the Blooming Rose.
* Varric: That does sound pretty good.
* Aveline: Sure, fill barracks with ****s. But you've also filled the Rose with guards.
* Varric: It's true what they say. The best comedy comes from tragedy.

[Seb Hanlon]

David Gaider wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...
At first, I thought the war over the Tome of Koslun was a little silly. While it's a first edition, it's still just a book. The Qunari aren't known for being materialistic, so fighting a war over a relic seemed a little odd... until I thought, "wait, what if it was the ONLY copy", or at least, one of a few.

The Tome of Koslun is one of the original texts written by the philosopher Koslun, from whom the Qun originates. Compare it to the Qur'an or the Bible.

"Do not thump the book of G'Quan! It is disrespectful!"

... I'll get my quote. Er, coat. Yeah.

[upsettingshorts]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

"Do not thump the book of G'Quan! It is disrespectful!"

... I'll get my quote. Er, coat. Yeah.

You can tell my copy of the book of G'Kar is genuine because of the immaculately reproduced coffee stain on one of pages.

[MisanthropePrime]

Kilshrek wrote...

Aveline specifically says that Varric owns printing blocks in one conversation. Just thought I'd put this out there.

here
* Aveline: You are very close to losing your printing blocks, Varric.
* Varric: Once more I am falsely accused of whatever it is that I am accused of. Falsely.
* Aveline: Someone swapped the text of my recruitment poster with some filth from the Blooming Rose.
* Varric: That does sound pretty good.
* Aveline: Sure, fill barracks with ****s. But you've also filled the Rose with guards.
* Varric: It's true what they say. The best comedy comes from tragedy.

Well that settles it, thanks.


As for the Tome of Koslun being like a Bible or Quran, I got that. What I didn't get is why the Qunari CARED. Aside from a few things (like a warrior's sword), Qunari don't really seem all that materialistic. While obviously they make some exceptions, I still thought the conflict was a little uncharacteristic for a people that often complain about Kirkwall's attachment to material goods. Maybe the point was that they were supposed to be a bit hypocritical, but I'd imagine the Tome of Koslun would be far more important if it was harder to reproduce it.

[NvVanity]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Aveline specifically says that Varric owns printing blocks in one conversation. Just thought I'd put this out there.

here
* Aveline: You are very close to losing your printing blocks, Varric.
* Varric: Once more I am falsely accused of whatever it is that I am accused of. Falsely.
* Aveline: Someone swapped the text of my recruitment poster with some filth from the Blooming Rose.
* Varric: That does sound pretty good.
* Aveline: Sure, fill barracks with ****s. But you've also filled the Rose with guards.
* Varric: It's true what they say. The best comedy comes from tragedy.

Well that settles it, thanks.


As for the Tome of Koslun being like a Bible or Quran, I got that. What I didn't get is why the Qunari CARED. Aside from a few things (like a warrior's sword), Qunari don't really seem all that materialistic. While obviously they make some exceptions, I still thought the conflict was a little uncharacteristic for a people that often complain about Kirkwall's attachment to material goods. Maybe the point was that they were supposed to be a bit hypocritical, but I'd imagine the Tome of Koslun would be far more important if it was harder to reproduce it.

Perhaps its the original copy? Kind of like how if the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence or (insert any nations constitution here) they would be up and in arms about it.

[MisanthropePrime]

No, no, it's obviously the first edition. What I'm asking is why the Qunari CARE that it's the first edition.

[PantheraOnca]

I think they care because it is essentially the genesis artifact of their culture. something like the declaration of independence but regarded with more reverence.

its not that they value its bookiness, but that it contains the ideas their society originated from, and that it is the first time those ideas were written down. if the qunari souls are there tools and vice versa, then this book is the soul of their adam/george washington figure and the tool he used to create their society.

Modifié par PantheraOnca, 19 mars 2011 - 07:18 .