339 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahisgewaya]

stewie1974 wrote...

sometimes an amulet is just an amulet. To expect every item to be named and have a noteworthy history is a bit .... unlikely. 

I insist you name every item in your house beyond its generic name.

A fork is no longer a fork and you must name each and every fork differently. Don't be lazy now.

Except my fork does not increase my constitution. If it did you bet I'd have a name for it!

Dragon Age origins had an item called "Leather Belt". But guess what? It did nothing, and was in fact just a leather belt.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[Xaenn]

Opinions are fun, but opinions shouldn't be offensive, unless someone is clearly saying "this is how it is," you're only speculating it's how he means to say it. Opinions are obviously opinions everyone has one and you should never get aggressive about it. If you are getting aggressive about it, it's likely you actually feel personally attacked and need to calm down or you fear they maybe correct and you lash out at them until they take it back and you feel better.

It's my opinion that everyone should go buy a PC and love it and play the games on the PC. Thus giving gaming companies more to play around with (vastly) and will eliminate this need to 'dumb' down the content so console players can play and have an easier time & enjoy.

Nothing against console players though, personally I own 2 PS3's 360, Wii. I'm a super nerd. -.-

Modifié par Xaenn, 19 mars 2011 - 06:48 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Xaenn wrote...

Opinions are fun, but opinions shouldn't be offensive, unless someone is clearly saying "this is how it is," you're only speculating it's how he means to say it. Opinions are obviously opinions everyone has one and you should never get aggressive about it. If you are getting aggressive about it, it's likely you actually feel personally attacked and need to calm down or you fear they maybe correct and you lash out at them until they take it back and you feel better.

It's my opinion that everyone should go buy a PC and love it and play the games on the PC. Thus giving gaming companies more to play around with (vastly) and will eliminate this need to 'dumb' down the content so console players can play and have an easier time & enjoy.

Nothing against console players though, personally I own 2 PS3's 360, Wii. I'm a super nerd. -.-

Yes and I play Zelda: Twilight Princess. But if I got home and played it and it was Fallout 3 except with Link and Magic and Gannon I would take it back to the store. Why? Because I didn't buy Fallout 3 at that store, I bought Zelda. The Package said Zelda, not "Fallout 3 made to look like Zelda".

Likewise this game said "Dragon Age 2". That title comes with expectations, namely that it will try to be at least as good if not better than Dragon Age and in a similar vein. I do not expect it to be shorter, have less choice and less maps which are reused.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 06:55 .

[Rockpopple]

There's not that much hate for Dragon Age II

Look at the facts:

USER RATINGS:

Gamestop
Dragon Age: Origins for PS3 - 8.5
Dragon Age: Origins for XBOX360 - 8.4
Dragon Age: Origins for PC - 8.8

Dragon Age II for PS3 - 8.3
Dragon Age II for Xbox - 8.2
Dragon Age II for PC - 5 (Caveat - only 14 reviews in so far)

Gamespot

Dragon Age: Origins for PS3 - 8.8
Dragon Age: Origins for Xbox - 8.7
Dragon Age: Origins for PC - 9.0

Dragon Age II for PS3 - 8.2
Dragon Age II for Xbox - 8.3
Dragon Age II for PC - 7.2

IGN

Dragon Age: Origins for PS3 - 7.4
Dragon Age: Origins for Xbox - 8.2
Dragon Age: Origins for PC - 8.2

Dragon Age II for PS3 - 8.6
Dragon Age II for Xbox - 7.6
Dragon Age II for PC - 7.3

1UP

Dragon Age: Origins for PS3 and Xbox360 - B+
Dragon Age: Origins for PC - A

Dragon Age II for  PS3 and Xbox - NA
Dragon Age II for PC - NA 

That's not hate. People like the game on the Consoles, and they think it's merely average on the PC. Far cry from hate.

Let me tell you about people love to go around from thread to thread talking about how much they HAAAATE this game, or anything else, really. Those people have no lives. They go on Metacritic and spam 1/10 reviews on all platforms (despite only playing it on one) because they have no lives.

If I were you, I'd feel sorry for them, rather than worry about how this game is being received.

[Ahisgewaya]

I also don't hate the game, I just am greatly disappointed. It's still a fun game, but I expected more from it. It also for me has become a poster child for the disturbing tendency developers seem to have these days: Namely taking one step forward and two steps back. Then they expect me to pay the same ammount of money for the lesser game. Innovation is making things better, not making them worse. You can change some things but when you change everything the product becomes unrecognizable as the thing that made it popular in the first place. 

If you look at those reviews, you will see that they are not really saying it's a bad game, just that Origins was better. Origins is more highly rated, and that is a telling sign when you have a sequel if the previous game is still more popular.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 07:02 .

[Xaenn]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Xaenn wrote...

Opinions are fun, but opinions shouldn't be offensive, unless someone is clearly saying "this is how it is," you're only speculating it's how he means to say it. Opinions are obviously opinions everyone has one and you should never get aggressive about it. If you are getting aggressive about it, it's likely you actually feel personally attacked and need to calm down or you fear they maybe correct and you lash out at them until they take it back and you feel better.

It's my opinion that everyone should go buy a PC and love it and play the games on the PC. Thus giving gaming companies more to play around with (vastly) and will eliminate this need to 'dumb' down the content so console players can play and have an easier time & enjoy.

Nothing against console players though, personally I own 2 PS3's 360, Wii. I'm a super nerd. -.-

Yes and I play Zelda: Twilight Princess. But if I got home and played it and it was Fallout 3 except with Link and Magic and Gannon I would take it back to the store. Why? Because I didn't buy Fallout 3 at that store, I bought Zelda. The Package said Zelda, not "Fallout 3 made to look like Zelda".

Likewise this game said "Dragon Age 2". That title comes with expectations, namely that it will try to be at least as good if not better than Dragon Age and in a similar vein. I do not expect it to be shorter, have less choice and less maps which are reused.

I think my post may of come across wrong and you make good valid points. I meant, people shouldn't take your opinions offensively or personally, not that you the poster can't be aggressive or state your personal affliction with a game.

I actually completely agree with you.

Modifié par Xaenn, 19 mars 2011 - 07:00 .

[Meltemph]

The hate is simply because DA2 is not origins. Hell a lot of the reviews that gave the game the lower scores, essentially said that and was obviously the reason for the lower scores. Changes in games, when expectations are high, specially when it involves, quite possibly, the most die hard/obsessed crowed of genre fans(RPG's) you are going to get the "rabble rabble" effect and when the internet is involved with the... less mature side of sites that decide to wage a crusade(wish they would do this kind of stuff with things of meaning, more) over their beloved perceptions not being met, you are going to get what you get.

The hate is slowly dying down though and you are starting to get to actually hear the fans of the game and the constructive criticisms of the game. Not the "its not origins" mantra that so many of the louder crowd like to scream.

[Ahisgewaya]

Xaenn wrote...


I think my post may of come across wrong and you make good valid points. I meant, people shouldn't take your opinions offensively or personally, not that you the poster can't be aggressive or state your personal affliction with a game.

I actually completely agree with you.

No worries. 

[Phaelducan]

That's true Meltemph.

Constructive criticism is hard to hear amongst all the hate and vitriol.

@Ronin Independent thought is not robbed of anyone, as I've said continuously and repeatedly disliking a product is one thing, but saying it's "bad" is another. The point of a review is to rapidly share an opinion of a product with a lot of people, who at least in theory are interested in the review. Pro reviewers as such have a responsibility to address the core elements of the game and critique them constructively (if they can't do this they don't stay reviewers).

Usually, with a more mild fan base you can count on user reviews to at least be vaguely similar in overall tone to the so-called professionals, but in this case we are seeing a rabid and fiercely negative group of (are they still fans if they vehemently hate the product and company?) user-reviews generated that are not addressing the game with anything resembling an objective lens.

We see it here on the game forums a lot too. Person A essentially trashes the game for X number of reasons, most of which are rooted in comparisons to games 10 years old or older (not just DA:O) and with no intent of being remotely impartial. Person B counter-argues everything from dialog, combat, scope, linearity, inventory, upgrade system, leveling, customization with Person A and it all comes down to taste and preference.

The reason it is so irritating is that the game has been demonized to such an extreme degree without any context of its peers, RPG mores, or good sportsmanship. WHY is the dialog weaker when it has the same components of a myriad of other RPG's. WHY is the game so shallow when it has the same or very similar leveling systems to any number of other RPG's. So on and so on.

I'm tired of hearing "DA2 sucks" with no meat to the argument. Don't like the game? Fine, that's totally cool. It's not for everyone, but the entire genre isn't for everyone. There is big difference between not liking it though, and saying it's a bad game. Bad is eating food which makes you puke for 6 hours, it's not just "I'll have the chicken instead of the fish."

[Phaelducan]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

sometimes an amulet is just an amulet. To expect every item to be named and have a noteworthy history is a bit .... unlikely. 

I insist you name every item in your house beyond its generic name.

A fork is no longer a fork and you must name each and every fork differently. Don't be lazy now.

Except my fork does not increase my constitution. If it did you bet I'd have a name for it!

Dragon Age origins had an item called "Leather Belt". But guess what? It did nothing, and was in fact just a leather belt.

Invalid argument imo. Tons of RPG's have unnamed magic items that do in fact raise stats. From DnD to Diablo, the equivalent of an "amulet of health +1" has been around for decades. Not every magic item has an interesting history.

[Ahisgewaya]

Phaelducan wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

sometimes an amulet is just an amulet. To expect every item to be named and have a noteworthy history is a bit .... unlikely. 

I insist you name every item in your house beyond its generic name.

A fork is no longer a fork and you must name each and every fork differently. Don't be lazy now.

Except my fork does not increase my constitution. If it did you bet I'd have a name for it!

Dragon Age origins had an item called "Leather Belt". But guess what? It did nothing, and was in fact just a leather belt.

Invalid argument imo. Tons of RPG's have unnamed magic items that do in fact raise stats. From DnD to Diablo, the equivalent of an "amulet of health +1" has been around for decades. Not every magic item has an interesting history.

I found no wearable item in Origins that did something but did not have a description (and at least a name!). If I wanted Diablo I would have bought Diablo. I wanted the sequel to Dragon Age Origins. It is not an invalid arguement. It is an example of something good which was not implemented in the sequel. As I said, one step forward, two steps back.

And I do not consider Diablo to be an RPG.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 07:32 .

[Phaelducan]

The shops were full of weapons and armor that didn't have descriptions beyond "X Material of Armor Y."

If there is a precedent for wearable items without a lengthy historical description, and a historical precedent within the genre, why is that a trope you are having trouble with?

Sometimes armor is magical, sometimes it isn't. Same with accessories.

[Ahisgewaya]

Phaelducan wrote...

The shops were full of weapons and armor that didn't have descriptions beyond "X Material of Armor Y."

If there is a precedent for wearable items without a lengthy historical description, and a historical precedent within the genre, why is that a trope you are having trouble with?

Sometimes armor is magical, sometimes it isn't. Same with accessories.

Then said unmagical accessory should do nothing other than hold your pants up. I have no problem with nonmagical armor. I have a problem with magical armor that has no name or description or even indication of why it lets you have more health. Or an amulet that is clearly magical, as it enhances your caharacter magically, but is just called "Amulet".
BUt the thing I have the biggest problem with is when none of the magic items, even the powerful ones, have a history or description. That is called lazy writing for an unfinished game and makes me feel ripped off.

[bEVEsthda]

Rockpopple wrote...

There's not that much hate for Dragon Age II


*****lotsa ratings*******


That's not hate. People like the game on the Consoles, and they think it's merely average on the PC. Far cry from hate.

Spot on and about right I think. And if it hadn't been reviewed my mainly rpg people I think the rating for the PC-version might even have been 8.

Let me tell you about people love to go around from thread to thread talking about how much they HAAAATE this game, or anything else, really. Those people have no lives. They go on Metacritic and spam 1/10 reviews on all platforms (despite only playing it on one) because they have no lives.

If I were you, I'd feel sorry for them, rather than worry about how this game is being received.

No one goes around and hates so much because the game would be bad. They do it because it's the new face of the Dragon Age franchise and it's like nothing they had hoped for. ...Or expected. They certainly feel betrayed, and "EA'ed".

As many have suggested, I think Bioware and EA could have saved themselves a lot of grief by not naming this game DA2. That's actually a bright idea which is perfectly possible to have: That if you change so much, might be cool to name it something different, wait and see. And when the s* hits the fan, perhaps claim that this is just a fast sideshow and the "real" DA game is still in development.

[Ahisgewaya]

bEVEsthda wrote...

No one goes around and hates so much because the game would be bad. They do it because it's the new face of the Dragon Age franchise and it's like nothing they had hoped for. ...Or expected. They certainly feel betrayed, and "EA'ed".

As many have suggested, I think Bioware and EA could have saved themselves a lot of grief by not naming this game DA2. That's actually a bright idea which is perfectly possible to have: That if you change so much, might be cool to name it something different, wait and see. And when the s* hits the fan, perhaps claim that this is just a fast sideshow and the "real" DA game is still in development.

And if they had called this something other than Dragon Age 2 it would not have felt like a bait and switch for me.
Now I feel like by buying this I have contributed to the slow dissolution of the kind of games that I love.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[Phaelducan]

Shrug, I think that's a small thing to be irritated by, but to each their own.

It's definitely not my favorite RPG, but I don't feel like it was bait and switch, nor do I feel ripped off.

We had lots of time leading up to the launch to get a pretty strong sense that the game would at least be significantly different than Origins. If all these people who bought the game are so mad, why didn't they at least consider not buying it?

[CitizenSnips]

Reason #1
- Many fans were expecting DA:O 2 and were given an action-RPG hybrid. I don't have too much of a problem with this, although there wasn't anything wrong with DA:O's formula and I can't blame diehard DA:O purists for their dismay.

Reason #2
- We were all given an unfinished, unpolished game that fell far short of its potential. This game just screams "rushed" and is not the quality game we have come to expect from Bioware.

Combine those reasons and I can see a lot of people being angered by this game.

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 19 mars 2011 - 07:51 .

[CitizenSnips]

X

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 19 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[Phaelducan]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Reason #1
- Many fans were expecting DA:O 2 and were given an action-RPG hybrid. I don't have too much of a problem with this, although there wasn't anything wrong with DA:O's formula and I can't blame diehard DA:O purists for their dismay.

Reason #2
- We were all given an unfinished, unpolished game that fell far short of its potential. This game just screams "rushed" and is not the quality game we have come to expect from Bioware.

Combine those reasons and I can see a lot of people being angered by this game.

I'd agree that it definitely could have been better.

Same can be said for most games though. Still, I'm sure another 6 months would have been great for the bad press. Even though I liked the game, not going to say I'm not easily moving on to greener pastures (Deus Ex in particular).

[Ahisgewaya]

Phaelducan wrote...

Shrug, I think that's a small thing to be irritated by, but to each their own.

It's definitely not my favorite RPG, but I don't feel like it was bait and switch, nor do I feel ripped off.

We had lots of time leading up to the launch to get a pretty strong sense that the game would at least be significantly different than Origins. If all these people who bought the game are so mad, why didn't they at least consider not buying it?

Because I thought even if it was different, it would at least be a finished game. It seems very rushed and incomplete. The ending seems to be setting itself up for a Mass Effect 2 style sequel, which really isn't a sequel at all but is really the rest of the game. I also would never have thought they would reuse maps like they did. THe item thing is just one small part of why this game feels like it was rushed out the door to milk me of my money. Companies who do that insult my intelligence and I do not wish good things upon them. You give me my moneys worth or you lose a customer. It's that simple. Do not try to trick me into buying a lesser product or I will become enraged and will never buy anything you produce again. 

THe biggest thing that makes me and several other so angry though is that EA has now done this to Bioware, one of the old companies I grew up with. I and some others feel like EA has taken something that we cherished growing up and tried to use it against us. If you try to use something against me then you are my enemy. I do not buy things from my enemies. 

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 19 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[bEVEsthda]

Phaelducan wrote...

Shrug, I think that's a small thing to be irritated by, but to each their own.

It's definitely not my favorite RPG, but I don't feel like it was bait and switch, nor do I feel ripped off.

We had lots of time leading up to the launch to get a pretty strong sense that the game would at least be significantly different than Origins. If all these people who bought the game are so mad, why didn't they at least consider not buying it?

Because, DA franchise was basically sort of their last hope. I have followed DA for a decade, and so have many others. This is not just another game. We're already wading kneedeep in console-games which don't really mean anything to us. DA didn't have to be just another.

[Ahisgewaya]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Because, DA franchise was basically sort of their last hope. I have followed DA for a decade, and so have many others. This is not just another game. We're already wading kneedeep in console-games which don't really mean anything to us. DA didn't have to be just another.

This.

[Phaelducan]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Shrug, I think that's a small thing to be irritated by, but to each their own.

It's definitely not my favorite RPG, but I don't feel like it was bait and switch, nor do I feel ripped off.

We had lots of time leading up to the launch to get a pretty strong sense that the game would at least be significantly different than Origins. If all these people who bought the game are so mad, why didn't they at least consider not buying it?

Because I thought even if it was different, it would at least be a finished game. It seems very rushed and incomplete. The ending seems to be setting itself up for a Mass Effect 2 style sequel, which really isn't a sequel at all but is really the rest of the game. I also would never have thought they would reuse maps like they did. THe item thing is just one small part of why this game feels like it was rushed out the door to milk me of my money. Companies who do that insult my intelligence and I do not wish good things upon them. You give me my moneys worth or you lose a customer. It's that simple. Do not try to trick me into buying a lesser product or I will become enraged and will never buy anything you produce again. 

THe biggest thing that makes me and several other so angry though is that EA has now done this to Bioware, one of the old companies I grew up with. I and some others feel like EA has taken something that we cherished growing up and tried to use it against us. If you try to use something against me then you are my enemy. I do not buy things from my enemies. 

Your choice, shrug. That's a lot of energy to pack around for a video game. Sometimes a company makes a good game, sometimes a great game, sometimes (more often than not) an average game. If you want to call DA2 bad and swear off the company, then by all means that is your gig... but then why are you here?

Lots of good games out there. Heck if you are that angry about it, go buy a cheap copy of Ninja Gaiden II. That will cure you of any video game rage you have once and for all.

[Naitaka]

Phaelducan wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Shrug, I think that's a small thing to be irritated by, but to each their own.

It's definitely not my favorite RPG, but I don't feel like it was bait and switch, nor do I feel ripped off.

We had lots of time leading up to the launch to get a pretty strong sense that the game would at least be significantly different than Origins. If all these people who bought the game are so mad, why didn't they at least consider not buying it?

Because I thought even if it was different, it would at least be a finished game. It seems very rushed and incomplete. The ending seems to be setting itself up for a Mass Effect 2 style sequel, which really isn't a sequel at all but is really the rest of the game. I also would never have thought they would reuse maps like they did. THe item thing is just one small part of why this game feels like it was rushed out the door to milk me of my money. Companies who do that insult my intelligence and I do not wish good things upon them. You give me my moneys worth or you lose a customer. It's that simple. Do not try to trick me into buying a lesser product or I will become enraged and will never buy anything you produce again. 

THe biggest thing that makes me and several other so angry though is that EA has now done this to Bioware, one of the old companies I grew up with. I and some others feel like EA has taken something that we cherished growing up and tried to use it against us. If you try to use something against me then you are my enemy. I do not buy things from my enemies. 

Your choice, shrug. That's a lot of energy to pack around for a video game. Sometimes a company makes a good game, sometimes a great game, sometimes (more often than not) an average game. If you want to call DA2 bad and swear off the company, then by all means that is your gig... but then why are you here?

Lots of good games out there. Heck if you are that angry about it, go buy a cheap copy of Ninja Gaiden II. That will cure you of any video game rage you have once and for all.

I hope that's sarcasm because Ninja Gaiden 1 gave me soooooo much video game rage...I've never felt so inadequate as a gamer in my life.

[Phaelducan]

That's the cure. If you can beat the game, nothing should ever bother you ever again.