179 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Sidney wrote...

I rather tend to agree. I think the notion that VO kills "imagination" is silly - as the OP posted in sort of a ham-handed wasy the Warden, and your characters from BG2 for that matter, have a "voice" but people tend to ignore it for whatever they imagine.

I'll just say that due to the combination of writing, VA and the conversation mechanics Hawke has come alive for me far more than any of my wardens did or even the Shepards I've created.

[mesmerizedish]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Well, if you want to get nit-picky (and it appears you all do), the Warden wasn't techically mute, in his world he/she did speak , we (the players) just couldn't hear him/her.  

The ability to comunicate means nothing. The inability to audibly speak while having a conversation, leans twards muteness. Wouldn't you say?

Balthead's point is that the warden was audible. Just not to you. Again, you seem intent on latching on to the most inane misunderstanding possible, and never giving up.

[DieHigh2012]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Well, if you want to get nit-picky (and it appears you all do), the Warden wasn't techically mute, in his world he/she did speak , we (the players) just couldn't hear him/her.  

The ability to comunicate means nothing. The inability to audibly speak while having a conversation, leans twards muteness. Wouldn't you say?

Balthead's point is that the warden was audible. Just not to you. Again, you seem intent on latching on to the most inane misunderstanding possible, and never giving up.

Exept you are forgetting that everyone eles was speaking clearly with sound(ie out loud). meaning that for that theory to be even considered remotly viable you would have to explain why yours is the only person in the DA universe not able to speak out loud. That is a very big flaw in that teory, one I thought was evident. 

It really is a shame I had to explain that for you.

Please think before posting, as it is you are begining to look the fool.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 19 mars 2011 - 09:57 .

[Meltemph]

that makes my own characters in the games I play, I imagine a voice up and I hear it perfectly. It takes nothing away, but to me add so much more.

You can imagine a voice all you want but the way the game responds to a mute protagonist is very obvious. They always speak at you and your companions or some other person gets talked at. I never get the feeling the NPC's are talking with me, when they have a voice and I don't, because they way they have to respond is limited because there can be no audible discussion.

I can admit that others probably don't have such a great imaginination, but as a story-teller it is very easy for me to imagine the sound of the character from looks alone and here them in my head.

It has nothing to do with the sound at all, it has to do with how the world around you, which has voice reacts to the one person in the game world which has no voice.

[Chiramu]

My Warden went "click" whenever she spoke lolz.

[mesmerizedish]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Exept you are forgetting that everyone eles was speaking clearly with sound(ie out loud). meaning that for that theory to be even considered remotly viable you would have to explain why yours is the only person in the DA universe not able to speak out loud. That is a very big flaw in that teory, one I thought was evident. 

Because your character is the only one whose lines and delivery are dictated by you, the player. I thought that was evident.

[blacqout]

Aradace wrote...

"battle cries" dont count. So yes, when you split hairs, he was "mute". Unless you can discover some sort of "normal" dialog where the Warden DOESNT stare dramatically off into the middle distance and actually gives actual "input" into a conversation beyond selecting the dialog. Then sorry, he was still "mute"

The Warden wasn't "mute". He didn't communicate through telepathy or sign language. we may not have heard him speak, but he spoke to plenty of people on his travels.

[v_ware]

Are you guys so far out that you're down to having a fight about symantics?

PATHETIC

Modifié par v_ware, 19 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[Bathead]

Seriously, my point stands. He was mute TO US, but not to the people around him in the story. The only reason you can hear the others but not him is purely a programming convenience for the makers of the game to allow the gamer some choice as to his dialog with out the inconvenience of having to hire a dozen or more VA's and programming all those extra lines of dialog. Myself, I prefer the way it's done in DA:2.

[Bathead]

v_ware wrote...

Are you guys so far out that you're down to having a fight about symantics?

PATHETIC

It's been said before.
Welcome to the internet.

[mesmerizedish]

Bathead wrote...

Seriously, my point stands. He was mute TO US, but not to the people around him in the story. The only reason you can hear the others but not him is purely a programming convenience for the makers of the game to allow the gamer some choice as to his dialog with out the inconvenience of having to hire a dozen or more VA's and programming all those extra lines of dialog. Myself, I prefer the way it's done in DA:2.

This.

What I mean by all of you people being intentinally dense is that you seem to think that the lack of spoken dialogue on the part of the PC is some in-game phenomenon. There's no way you can take that stance without being an idiot or playing devil's advocate. I don't like to call people idiots, so I tend to assume that you argue for the sake of it, and not because you actually believe that lunacy you type.

[Maclimes]

The problem with the Warden's "voice" comes down to this:

He doesn't speak in conversations. Okay, I can deal with that, except that every single other person does talk. It's disconcerting. The form of conversation, which is a 3rd-party camera that flips between the characters talking, always makes the Warden look weird and mute.

The reason Bethesda gets away with mute characters is because you don't see your character ever "not talking". You only get close-ups on people if your character literally gets in their face. BioWare goes for a more cinematic feel to conversations, which makes a voiced character much more engaging.

[DieHigh2012]

Maclimes wrote...

The problem with the Warden's "voice" comes down to this:

He doesn't speak in conversations. Okay, I can deal with that, except that every single other person does talk. It's disconcerting. The form of conversation, which is a 3rd-party camera that flips between the characters talking, always makes the Warden look weird and mute.

The reason Bethesda gets away with mute characters is because you don't see your character ever "not talking". You only get close-ups on people if your character literally gets in their face. BioWare goes for a more cinematic feel to conversations, which makes a voiced character much more engaging.

This

[SirOccam]

I'm not sure why this distinction should be important. Okay, so he wasn't "mute," he was "mostly mute." Does that actually affect anyone's argument about anything?

Edit: and I can't believe anyone could honestly think the Warden was mute in-character. If he or she were, there'd be no dialogue lines to choose, and only "[Gesture frantically]".

Modifié par SirOccam, 19 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[DieHigh2012]

v_ware wrote...

Are you guys so far out that you're down to having a fight about symantics?

PATHETIC

Hey now I was only debating his overbearing nonsense that he was trying to push as fact. Though I will admit I enjoyed laughing at his childish unrefined method.

Besides, I really don't see what your post add to the discussion. Is it not more "pathetic" to waste your time posting in a thread simple to call others names?

[mesmerizedish]

SirOccam wrote...

Edit: and I can't believe anyone could honestly think the Warden was mute in-character. If he or she were, there'd be no dialogue lines to choose, and only "[Gesture frantically]".

Well, that's why I went for deliberately obtuse.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maclimes wrote...

The problem with the Warden's "voice" comes down to this:

He doesn't speak in conversations. Okay, I can deal with that, except that every single other person does talk. It's disconcerting.

I don't find it disconcerting at all.  When I'm talking to someone, people speaking to me is different-in-kind from me speaking.

When otehrs talk, I need to interpret what they say and work out what they might mean by that and watch their lips so I know I heard the words correctly.  When I speak, I just speak.  All the detailed math happened before that, so speaking is a remarkably simple activity.

With the DAO conversation system, this is how dialogue went.

But in DA2, Hawke is reduced to the same position as the other characters.  I have to fight with his reasoning to figure out what he's saying, and I need to pay close attention to him to know what he said.  Voicing the PC sets the PC apart from me, and that's something the game should be trying really hard never to do.

The reason Bethesda gets away with mute characters is because you don't see your character ever "not talking".

That's easy, then.  BioWare should scrap the cinematic conversations.

Problem solved.  Thanks for your help.

[Sylvius the Mad]

v_ware wrote...

Are you guys so far out that you're down to having a fight about symantics?

Semantics matter.

[mesmerizedish]

Hay guise. Ish's Corollary to Godwin's Principle. As a thread's length increases, the probability of Sylvius showing up to screw with everyone's head approaches infinity.

Sylvius, I say this with love, but you are just no fun to talk to sometimes*




*Only sometimes. Most of the time, I love it. But "rationality to a fault" and "deliberate obtuseness" are seperated by a very thin line, and I'm on the mother-frakking edge.

[UltimaFullmetal]

I've never cared for mute protagonists. It makes them seem soul-less to me.

[DieHigh2012]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Seriously, my point stands. He was mute TO US, but not to the people around him in the story. The only reason you can hear the others but not him is purely a programming convenience for the makers of the game to allow the gamer some choice as to his dialog with out the inconvenience of having to hire a dozen or more VA's and programming all those extra lines of dialog. Myself, I prefer the way it's done in DA:2.

This.

What I mean by all of you people being intentinally dense is that you seem to think that the lack of spoken dialogue on the part of the PC is some in-game phenomenon. There's no way you can take that stance without being an idiot or playing devil's advocate. I don't like to call people idiots, so I tend to assume that you argue for the sake of it, and not because you actually believe that lunacy you type.

What now? I do not think that it matters if it is an "ingame phenomenon" or a buget issue. It still means that the character does not speak in any dialog. Making him mute (at lest in every meaningful way) reguardless of the developers intentions.

I have no idea what you're arguing now.....

[blacqout]

I like that the Warden didn't speak, because i spoke for him. It was a lot of fun reading out my chosen line (in a unique voice/accent for each of my wardens) as if i was actually having a conversation with the inhabitants of the gameworld.

[Meltemph]

When most people say mute, I think it is safe to say they are using it in the same way as the tv is muted, as in, no sound.

The game deals with the protagonist differently when he is not voiced, when everyone else is, specially when you are telling the stories the way they do. IMO, a cinematic story does not mesh well with a voiceless character. Which is why I said, I would prefer no VA's at all. That way you get more dialog/things to read.

But if you are going to make a cinematic story it just comes across as awkward to me, when ever there are scenes.

Modifié par Meltemph, 19 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[DieHigh2012]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

The problem with the Warden's "voice" comes down to this:

He doesn't speak in conversations. Okay, I can deal with that, except that every single other person does talk. It's disconcerting.

I don't find it disconcerting at all.  When I'm talking to someone, people speaking to me is different-in-kind from me speaking.

When otehrs talk, I need to interpret what they say and work out what they might mean by that and watch their lips so I know I heard the words correctly.  When I speak, I just speak.  All the detailed math happened before that, so speaking is a remarkably simple activity.

With the DAO conversation system, this is how dialogue went.

But in DA2, Hawke is reduced to the same position as the other characters.  I have to fight with his reasoning to figure out what he's saying, and I need to pay close attention to him to know what he said.  Voicing the PC sets the PC apart from me, and that's something the game should be trying really hard never to do.

The reason Bethesda gets away with mute characters is because you don't see your character ever "not talking".

That's easy, then.  BioWare should scrap the cinematic conversations.

Problem solved.  Thanks for your help.

Yes well actually speaking is still a very important part of the conversation. Though you might have already made up your mind as to what you are going to say. If you don't comunicate it in a way that the others in the conversation can understand, it is a wasted thought process. Therefor meaningless.

I should make it be known now that I have not taken a stance of "I like this one more than that one". Simply arguing that in DAO the warden was mute.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 19 mars 2011 - 11:51 .