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[flexxdk]

Persephone wrote...

He didn't just not speak in major cutscenes, all he had were battle cries.

*BUZZER* WRONG!...In a sense.

Sometimes when selecting your Warden, he / she would say something.
Sometimes when you commanded your Warden to do something (like lock picking, or simply moving to a different position), he / she would say something.

So it weren't only battlecries.

[Meltemph]

EmsaFallkin wrote...

@Meltemph, Haha, but currently I'm playing through BG1+2 because I didn't like DA2. But DA2's voices wasn't part of why I didn't like it though.

But I'm having a grand time with Baldur's Gate and plan to play Planescape: Torment after that. All of whom are non-VO games and some of the best cRPGS ever made

Torment had a great story and plot and setting.  BG had a very dull story with a good prefece, but got dull quickly to me.  BG2 had a better story and plot but, imo, focused a lot on the more boring aspects of the FR realms, that said I enjoyed BG2 a lot.

If I want a good story being told to me, I want VO's for everyone if I want to learn a lot about the lore of the world I'm playing in I want no VO's because it gives the devs more resources to spend on that.  If there was a way for them to have TONS of lore and story in the same game with VO that would be perfect, but sadly people have bills to pay and don't like waisting money(and rightly so).

However for me, DA2's story/plot compared to DAO was much better.  Most of DAO was about recruiting your help and less to do about the actual DS/blgiht/archdemon.  Which was fine, because I would much rather learn about the Mages/Templars Dwarves and elves and the polotics of the land, hell even learning about the blight was fun.  That said the game had you pulled in so many places that by the end of it all, the last thing I cared about was the blight, darkspawn, or the Gray wardens and was more wondering about the polotics of the land, the races of the land, and my consequences to them.

And sadly I felt that the plot got in the way of the lore and story way to much.  BW to me has always made great characters, polotics, and lore, but focus to much on that end game boss to much.  And DA2 did a good job at not focusing on the end boss(which was nice), hell you could even argue it had nothing to do with the end bosses at all and they were only the tipping point of what the story was about.

Hopefully either the lead designers or the writing team whoever makes those kind of calls, keeps focusing on the polotics of the world more so then the "monster of the week".  

[DieHigh2012]

TJSolo wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Have you been missing the context of what people are talking about when they say mute? They are not talking about the combat of the game, they are talking about the dialog.

Deylar started this thread because of the voiced reactions to him exclude the Warden from being a definitive mute despite the dialogue scenes to him.

So you must have skipped the entire 5 or so pages of the evolving discussion...

I believe I commented on the first page that the combat reactions are ignored by the folks hellbent on making the claim "The Warden was mute."  Your posts and my current responses to you support my first comment in this thread. 

This is a thread, not a living creature. The starting topic can always be referred to no matter what the current flow of a thread is.

I see perhaps you are "ignorant" of how speech works, as in talking.

[Soilborn88]

The voice overs simplified the converstaions opitions at the expense of making the game feel more cinematic

[TJSolo]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I see perhaps you are "ignorant" of how speech works, as in talking.

"Do you want a ladder, so you can get off my back?"
That would be something the "mute" Warden said in DAO.
Within my ignorance I thought that pronouncing words was mutually exclusive from being a mute. Maybe you should contact Oxford and have them change the defintion of mute to mean a person that only talks sometimes.

Modifié par TJSolo, 20 mars 2011 - 01:39 .

[DieHigh2012]

TJSolo wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I see perhaps you are "ignorant" of how speech works, as in talking.

"Do you want a ladder, so you can get off my back?"
That would be something the "mute" Warden said in DAO.
Within my ignorance I thought that pronouncing words was mutually exclusive from being a mute. Maybe you should contact Oxford and have them change the defintion of mute to mean a person that only talks sometimes.

Yet that is not what your first post was about, it was acctually about the dialog. You know the conversations that the warden takes part in without ever opening his mouth?

[TJSolo]

My first post was a response to Deylar's question, "Has everyone forgotten this?"
The "this" being "battleshouts and interjections" and that those are not used when making up whines about the Warden being mute. What is focused on is the text options for the Warden and the lack of the player hearing the Warden.

[DieHigh2012]

TJSolo wrote...

My first post was a response to Deylar's question, "Has everyone forgotten this?"
The "this" being "battleshouts and interjections" and that those are not used when making up whines about the Warden being mute. What is focused on is the text options for the Warden and the lack of the player hearing the Warden.

As that is the majority of the characters interaction with the DA universe, can you honestly not see why that would be the focus?

[Heavensrun]

Deylar wrote...

Aradace wrote...
"battle cries" dont count. So yes, when you split hairs, he was "mute". Unless you can discover some sort of "normal" dialog where the Warden DOESNT stare dramatically off into the middle distance and actually gives actual "input" into a conversation beyond selecting the dialog. Then sorry, he was still "mute"

I disagree. Its clear he had a voice. Its clear that he spoke. You can imply thus that he talks, thus he isn't mute.

Bratinov wrote...
Some people like games to be more like interactive movies...
Immersion is better if the character that is supposed to be your avatar doesn't speak (see Bethesda titles, Gordon Freemen)
Hawke is not your avatar, he's just some random guy you give behavioral suggestions to, thats all

Agreed on all standpoints.

You're creating a strawman here.  Regardless of what word people may or may not use to refer to the warden "Mute", "Silent", etc.  EVERYONE on these boards is well aware that the character spoke.  The fact that you, y'know, choose -dialog- options is indicator enough of that.  Arguing pedantically that he wasn't "mute" is attacking an opinion you know noone holds, ostensibly to imply that people who don't like the silent warden are in some way wrong for such beliefs.

Personally?  I've always disliked the "silent protagonist" A La Gordon Freeman.  I have NEVER,file:///C:/Users/HEAVEN%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.pngfile:///C:/Users/HEAVEN%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png in my life, felt self-immersed in a videogame to the point that my "avatar" having a voice would detach me.  I might suggest that anybody that is self-identifying with the game that hard might have a teensy bit of an issue seperating fantasy from reality.  But that's really something that could only be judged person by person.  And even if I did self-identify, well, I do this little thing called "talking and emoting" where I express reactions to the events around me.  A protagonist who sits there like a neutral lump is just as "out of character" for me as one who says a line with a particular inflection.  In fact, such behavior makes it generally impossible for me to empathise with the character at all.

Of course, the warden isn't a Gordon Freeman style silent protagonist, as he or she at least -has- dialogue, it's just not voiced.  So it's not exactly the same thing anyway.  But still, there are things you just -can't- do with a silent protagonist.  There are emotions that can't be as readily conveyed.  And things that just don't really work.  The battlefield speech in DA:O being a really good example.  Alistair or Loghain had to give the ultimate speech, despite the fact that your warden is the hero of the game.  And why?  Well, because you can't really get a rousing speech out of a text box.  Delivery is half the fun on that kind of thing.  (And, Sorry Ali, I luv ya, but Loghain kicked your arse on that respect)

Anyway, I don't know if you were deliberately strawmanning with this topic, or if you're just being pedantic about the terminology the base uses to refer to the character (Maybe you know somebody that's a mute and feel annoyed at people trivializing the condition?  I dunno. ) but it's clear what everybody means when they say it, so if you disagree with their opinions, you should address the topic of the silent protagonist -first- and nitipick terminology as a side point.

[Merilsell]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Voice acting is, IMO, just fluff added to make the game seem more "realistic." I've never had a problem with reading text rather than hearing lines spoken by characters. I'm going to have to agree that complaints regarding this, especially those that claim the Warden was somehow "mute," are short-sighted. I don't recall any type of sign language, and if a character who lacks a VA is all that's needed to break a player's immersion, then they must not have been playing video games for very long. Every game I grew up with had these so-called "mute" characters, and I never had a problem understanding what was going on...

Also, defending the Warden's capacity to express him/herself does not mean that a person hates voiced protagonists. It's simply a statement of facts, regardless of your personal disagreements.

This.

Also for me, my canon Warden has a stronger voice than Hawke with all the voice-acting will ever have. Period.

[TJSolo]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

My first post was a response to Deylar's question, "Has everyone forgotten this?"
The "this" being "battleshouts and interjections" and that those are not used when making up whines about the Warden being mute. What is focused on is the text options for the Warden and the lack of the player hearing the Warden.

As that is the majority of the characters interaction with the DA universe, can you honestly not see why that would be the focus?

Well since that was part of my statement, I do see why. However, I also see that calling the Warden a mute is an embellishment. Do you not honestly understand that?

[DieHigh2012]

TJSolo wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

My first post was a response to Deylar's question, "Has everyone forgotten this?"
The "this" being "battleshouts and interjections" and that those are not used when making up whines about the Warden being mute. What is focused on is the text options for the Warden and the lack of the player hearing the Warden.

As that is the majority of the characters interaction with the DA universe, can you honestly not see why that would be the focus?

Well since that was part of my statement, I do see why. However, I also see that calling the Warden a mute is an embellishment. Do you not honestly understand that?

Wow, I almost didn't see this. Thanks to the above poster that pointed this out.

Strawman is strawman

[AngelicMachinery]

Is this a serious topic?

[Wompoo]

Yes, DA:O had Neverwinter style sounds sets, yawn. I'll take a fully voiced PC over being muted any day. The story in DA2 was also imo much much better then DA:O as well. DA:O felt like ME2s method, lets go companion collecting and do a series a of pointless companion quests that felt like they had zero impact on the "your" story and the greater game world. I play these games so my avatar is the centre of the world... not as side kick for a crying idiotic Alister type npc.

[DieHigh2012]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Is this a serious topic?

Not really, I only got invoved to because that forsaken guy tryed to be the cool kid in school.

[TJSolo]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Well since that was part of my statement, I do see why. However, I also see that calling the Warden a mute is an embellishment. Do you not honestly understand that?

Wow, I almost didn't see this. Thanks to the above poster that pointed this out.

Strawman is strawman

My answer was nothing of the sort. If you want to go about pretending this is a debate then stop deflecting the question I asked and give an answer.

Modifié par TJSolo, 20 mars 2011 - 04:21 .

[cainx10a]

Personally, I just look at it this way. There are different type of RPG games, one where you play as a set character, like in the Witcher, Dragon Age 2, or JRPGs. And one where the character you play as, is most certainly you, Fallout, Dragon Age Origins etc ...

Having a voice would definitely get in the way of my immersion in Fallout or Dragon Age Origins, but for DA2 ... it works fine, since Hawke is his/her own person. The choices you make for him/her, are his/her, not yours. > . >

[DieHigh2012]

TJSolo wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Well since that was part of my statement, I do see why. However, I also see that calling the Warden a mute is an embellishment. Do you not honestly understand that?

Wow, I almost didn't see this. Thanks to the above poster that pointed this out.

Strawman is strawman

My answer was nothing of the sort. If you want to go about pretending this is a debate then stop deflecting the question I asked and give an answer.

Nice try

[AtreiyaN7]

TJSolo wrote...


I believe I commented on the first page that the combat reactions are ignored by the folks hellbent on making the claim "The Warden was mute."  Your posts and my current responses to you support my first comment in this thread. 

This is a thread, not a living creature. The starting topic can always be referred to no matter what the current flow of a thread is.

And the people who claim combat reactions qualify as proof that the Warden isn't mute are ignoring the fact that the Warden stands there like a bump on the log not actually saying a single bloody thing during real conversations with companions and other NPCs. I can't believe this silliness is still going on.

Repeatedly saying "Can I get you a ladder so you'll get off my back!" when you click on a chest or a battle shout doesn't exactly qualify as a meaningful verbal exchange with your companions. Nor does it create any emotion other than, perhaps, annoyance after hearing it for the ten millionth time.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 mars 2011 - 05:36 .

[UltimaFullmetal]

I'm glad Bioware doesn't make Bethesda type games. I like Bethesdas games. but I've never played a more soul-less and lonely game than Oblivion.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

simfamSP wrote...

Can I give you a ladder so you can get of my back?

Do you have any idea how many threads were created on this when origins was released?

[NRO TYN]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Bethesda's RPGs have outsold Bioware RPGs since Oblivion and they have no voice-over for the main character. I don't see why Bioware feels it is needed to be successful.

^ This is SO true.

[Meltemph]

II That Burn In Ya Ass II wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

Bethesda's RPGs have outsold Bioware RPGs since Oblivion and they have no voice-over for the main character. I don't see why Bioware feels it is needed to be successful.

^ This is SO true.

They don't need voice overs because the overall story/plot takes a back seat to everything else.  The plots in Bethesda games(coming from someone who loves bethesda games, but sure as hell not for the story) are awful. I had to force myself to go through morrowind and oblivions plot, it was just obnoxiously boring.  The difference is everything else those games do and why people buy those games is because they are epically made and that it really feels like a world that exists.

Bethesda doesnt make the games that Bioware does, so unless you want Elder Scrolls clones then I don't think the comparisons fit.  

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 mars 2011 - 06:39 .

[Iwasdrunkbro]

II That Burn In Ya Ass II wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

Bethesda's RPGs have outsold Bioware RPGs since Oblivion and they have no voice-over for the main character. I don't see why Bioware feels it is needed to be successful.

^ This is SO true.

Its because Bethesda has open world games and it gives the player alot more freedom to go out and do whatever they want. Bioware makes up for this by having deep emotional connections with characters and an overall better (and longer) storyline. The truth is, if Bioware took the time to make a game like Oblivion the RIGHT way, it would be the top selling RPG of all time. Hands down no questions asked.

I simply dont understand why Bioware is so against open world "sandbox" gaming.

[Clonedzero]

oh the combat voices? i could NEVER play an elf for longer than their origin story simply because all the elf voices were SUPER annoying lol.