696 réponses à ce sujet

[Coolsvill]

yea acctully i did the bone pit and every one died except my mage??? and also my mage dose the most damage in my party???? so yea mage is a bad ass my other guys suck comparied to my mage..........even so he can heal himself soo yea hes hard to kill and he can attack giant groups at once not just one at a time like other classes do.....even tryed have all mages in group like Anders as a healer and Merrill and yea where badass dont even need others..........u should give it a try and see what you think!?!?!?!?!?!

[BloodyRaw]

Graunt wrote...



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 BTW what did he do to get those big purple numbers on his mage? He plays on nightmare so I know for a fact that is not walking bomb lol.

[SuicidalBaby]

can you not see the spell on the hot bar?

[BloodyRaw]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

can you not see the spell on the hot bar?

Yeah I saw the "chain lighting" dwarf lol, but there is no way it is doing 12k even off a stagger in purple numbers lol. 

[Jman5]

It can only be walking bomb. Has to be an AOE spirit spell and thats the only one that does big numbers like that.

[BloodyRaw]

Jman5 wrote...

It can only be walking bomb. Has to be an AOE spirit spell and thats the only one that does big numbers like that.

 Blah thanks Jman, I was trying to figure this out lol. Graunt said in one of his posts that walking bomb was bad on nightmare because of FF, meh ohh well. Thanks again

[Graunt]

Stammwuerze wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Are you doing this solo, or in a group?  Because in a group, especially below Nightmare I could see how you could easily get Walking Bomb to work and how to get very large clusters together without any of the Force abilities.

I am trying in a group. I want to test the build on hard before going nightmare. It seems, that I have to disable automatic taunt in the tactics from Aveline. It would be very kind, if you could tell me your tactics to group enemies.

Basically just use line of sight.  Run your tank in to get them to notice them and when they do, just run around a corner and stay close to the wall.  The enemies will run in single file hugging the wall to get to you.  Archers and other enemies that cannot see you will join the fray and run up with the rest of the group.  You can also use doorways after you've had your tank grab a large group and then run back to the door and fight the first one in line and the rest will try to pile up to get to you.

Blah thanks Jman, I was trying to figure this out lol. Graunt said in
one of his posts that walking bomb was bad on nightmare because of FF,
meh ohh well. Thanks again

I still think it's bad on Nightmare and was just using an exaggerated sequence that was super easy to setup.  Most of my first Nightmare attempt as a Mage (restarted at the Rock Wraith) had Anders as Spirit, trying to find any real opportunities to use it and actually found ONE -- the fight vs the whatever Profane leader/abomination that summons the five profane.  It pretty much killed all of the rest, but that was literally the only fight I could ever find it to actually have been worth the points to took to reach Virulent (not worth it at all, but the first upgrade may be). 

The picture was my second Nightmare Mage run, and I literally had Anders sitting on four skill points for a long time simply because I was trying to decide what exactly would be really beneficial for him or the group, and nothing ever really stood out, so I tried the bomb approach...again.

I also don't believe Pull is worth having if you don't grab the upgrade to it.  The range is way too small and you'll only ever grab 2-3 enemies tops if you try to do a naked pull simply because of how enemies are pretty much spread out.  The only real way to make use of pull is by having your tank gather up a bunch of them and pull from the back so that it hits all but your tank.

Modifié par Graunt, 22 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[Amioran]

Graunt wrote...
It pretty much killed all of the rest, but that was literally the only fight I could ever find it to actually have been worth the points to took to reach Virulent (not worth it at all, but the first upgrade may be). 

No, Virulent in vanilla is absolutely not worth it. However it is very easy to change the % of infection from 20 to 50/60 (there's even a mod that does so). In that way it becomes one of the most powerful upgrades (always below Nightmare, naturally, or using a mod that removes FF even on that diff, elsewhere you destroy your party in a second).

[Graunt]

Amioran wrote...

Graunt wrote...
It pretty much killed all of the rest, but that was literally the only fight I could ever find it to actually have been worth the points to took to reach Virulent (not worth it at all, but the first upgrade may be). 

No, Virulent in vanilla is absolutely not worth it. However it is very easy to change the % of infection from 20 to 50/60 (there's even a mod that does so). In that way it becomes one of the most powerful upgrades (always below Nightmare, naturally, or using a mod that removes FF even on that diff, elsewhere you destroy your party in a second).

I know Nightmare is not the only difficulty, but it's the only one I play on.  What's the method anyway without a mod?

Modifié par Graunt, 22 mars 2011 - 10:11 .

[pyre]

Offensively my Mage peaked at level 4 when he got Walking Bomb. Everything else past that was slightly disappointing (for damage) outside of the occasional CCC combo that any class can perform.

In terms of support, Mages are great. Some healing, good CC, Hex, and 20 second Haste is amazing for a melee group.

But in Bioware’s defense, I can easily see how a Mage would be OP if he had the AE damage of 2H Vanguard warrior while still having access to healing/CC/Haste/Debuffs.  Mages really need a sustain mode that restricts a mage from being such strong party support so they can become a more “selfish” but powerful individual character. Basically we need Arcane Warrior back.

Modifié par pyre, 22 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[xMerKuLx]

I couldn't stop laughing at this topic, the challenge doesn't even prove anything and no matter what was said the opener just wouldn't listen, why argue with people that fail at English.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

xMerKuLx wrote...

I couldn't stop laughing at this topic, the challenge doesn't even prove anything and no matter what was said the opener just wouldn't listen, why argue with people that fail at English.

Mages do crap damage. This is the least fun I've ever had playing a mage in any game. Mages in Nightmare just plain suck.

[wowpwnslol]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...


Mages do crap damage. This is the least fun I've ever had playing a mage in any game. Mages in Nightmare just plain suck.

Bow down to your warrior overlords.

[Amioran]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

xMerKuLx wrote...

I couldn't stop laughing at this topic, the challenge doesn't even prove anything and no matter what was said the opener just wouldn't listen, why argue with people that fail at English.

Mages do crap damage. This is the least fun I've ever had playing a mage in any game. Mages in Nightmare just plain suck.

This naturally said from someone that has the worser mage build I ever seen. You neither took the most powerful CCC spell, and instead decided to go with Spirit Healer, and then you complain about "damage".

[wowpwnslol]

On a serious note, I can't imagine playing Grumpy Old Wizard's mage on nightmare. Base con... how much HP do you have, dude? No amount of fort will save you from knockbacks/stuns. I couldn't imagine putting myself through that kind of torture after playing 500+hp warrior.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Amioran wrote...

This naturally said from someone that has the worser mage build I ever seen. You neither took the most powerful CCC spell, and instead decided to go with Spirit Healer, and then you complain about "damage".

Lol!!!!!!  You claim since I did not take blood mage my build sucks? How stupid!!!

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

wowpwnslol wrote...

On a serious note, I can't imagine playing Grumpy Old Wizard's mage on nightmare. Base con... how much HP do you have, dude? No amount of fort will save you from knockbacks/stuns. I couldn't imagine putting myself through that kind of torture after playing 500+hp warrior.

Unshakable in the Force Mage specialization prevents knockbacks/stuns.  The problem is damage, not my mage being knocked on his butt.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 23 mars 2011 - 10:32 .

[Ganen]

a spirit mage can solo easy and normal mode nicely (at least the early bits) with its aura and walking bomb kiting, stone armor and heal, taking up winter's breath and Cone of cold for that added single target and arc dps and CC bonus.

doubt that is so on hard and nightmare tho...
I dont believe the guy that says he soloed the bone pit in nightmare as a mage... end tier npc spells one shot you (like blood aoe and the gravity and electical field ones) not to mention elite rogues one shot you from stealth.
dont think a rogue can either tho, a warrior Ill believe since they arei nsanely overpowered, tank dps and passive CC all together.

Modifié par Ganen, 23 mars 2011 - 01:01 .

[G_Admiral_Thrawn]

A lot of people talk about CCCs, and while I've been able to do it, I've only done it on a group once (and I use group loosely Varric happened to be in the right position, and cone of cold managed to brittle 2 enemies, which Varric used Archer's Lance to kill them). Aveline never uses shield bash on a group of enemies, only on one (despite her tactics to use shield bash when surrounded by atleast 3 enemies, and that should stagger the group, and it's high up there, like 2 or 3), and Varric never uses Pinning Shot. Mages, if they want to be big damagers, rely on CCCs. DA2 takes me all the way to BG (I never could do a mage there, because they were too fragile, and aside from fireball, they didn't get much in the way of offensive spells). Here, they get a plethora of damaging spells, but only if the enemy is hit with a stagger or disorient. Course, I guess I understand the logic. Mages are (supposed) glass cannons, but I never put that durability to the test. I always play a hybrid fighter/caster. (DO:A was a godsend. Battlemaster, plus Arcane Warrior, and you have a soloer) In BG2, NWN, and NWN2, I play a AoE master, with a minor in death (like Finger of Death and Disentigrate). In the NWN series, I added direct damage to my repriotore as well, because of 2 spells: Flame Arrow (4d6 damage per arrow, with no limit on the number of arrows to the level cap- 10 at level 40 in NWN, 7 at 28 in NWN2) and Greater Missile Storm (2d6 damage per missile with a max of 20 missiles at level 20).

On a side note, this reminds me of a debate that raged in the BG2 forums. A couple of people argued a mage was for support. I argued that WARRIORS were the support (and me alone), only in this game, there are no insta-death spells (even insta-death through massive damage). AoEs are likewise nerfed (even with both me AND Merril BOTH stacking Firestorm AND Tempest, we would barely scratch leutenatns, much less bosses).. The only damage done by mages are to my frame rate. That was accecptable to me in DA:O (occasionally crashed the game, but if the game survived, the enemies didn't). Now it's if my computer survives, so do the enemies. I do the same amount of damage with my staff that I do with Winter's Grasp and Horror.

[knownastherat]

Korgan was not support, he was mad, even without Grand Mastery "fix"

Fair enough though, the answer to: Who needs mages? was: Who needs warriors? I am still lead to believe that mages play the way they do because of CCC, whether we like it or not.

[nicodeemus327]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

xMerKuLx wrote...

I couldn't stop laughing at this topic, the challenge doesn't even prove anything and no matter what was said the opener just wouldn't listen, why argue with people that fail at English.

Mages do crap damage. This is the least fun I've ever had playing a mage in any game. Mages in Nightmare just plain suck.

Are you kidding? If you hit elemental weaknesses mages do great damage.

[ezrafetch]

G_Admiral_Thrawn wrote...
Aveline never uses shield bash on a group of enemies, only on one (despite her tactics to use shield bash when surrounded by atleast 3 enemies, and that should stagger the group, and it's high up there, like 2 or 3), and Varric never uses Pinning Shot. Mages, if they want to be big damagers, rely on CCCs.

Well, the problem is with the tactic.  I'd just set it as Enemy: Any then Aveline: Shield Bash.  I'm pretty sure the consideration for group of enemies is interpreted very broadly by the game: you'll never get it when you need it.  Plus, if you have her with Enemy: Target of Aveline then Aveline: Cleave (with + Claymore upgrade), then you'll also end up with tons of staggers going around.  You can pick up some additional staggers in Warmonger but it's not really necessary.

Mages do rely on CCCs a lot more than other classes, but that's what makes it more fun...or something like that.

[godlike13]

Pull of the Abyss + Overpowering Fog + VWB = Awesomeness!

[rumination888]

Nearing the end of Act 2 with my DPS mage, and the only complaint I have is the lack of good staves in Act 2 and 3. A DPS mage needs to exploit elemental weakness to take advantage of their 25/50% mastery bonus. So, there needs to be more staff options than any other weapon, but unfortunately, that isn't the case.

The upgrade to the Staff of Primal Order in Act 2 costs over 100g(which I haven't even accumulated yet and probably wont be able to before I reach act 3), Staff of Parthalan's upgrade requires you to kill a sidequest boss, and I haven't even seen any good electricity or spirit damage staves yet after nearing the end of Act 2.

Sure, doing 150-200 damage per auto-attack with Act 1 staves gets the job done in Act 2, but its nowhere near what it could be if I had the proper staves.

Modifié par rumination888, 24 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

[Artillis22]

G_Admiral_Thrawn wrote...

A lot of people talk about CCCs, and while I've been able to do it, I've only done it on a group once (and I use group loosely Varric happened to be in the right position, and cone of cold managed to brittle 2 enemies, which Varric used Archer's Lance to kill them). Aveline never uses shield bash on a group of enemies, only on one (despite her tactics to use shield bash when surrounded by atleast 3 enemies, and that should stagger the group, and it's high up there, like 2 or 3), and Varric never uses Pinning Shot. Mages, if they want to be big damagers, rely on CCCs. DA2 takes me all the way to BG (I never could do a mage there, because they were too fragile, and aside from fireball, they didn't get much in the way of offensive spells). Here, they get a plethora of damaging spells, but only if the enemy is hit with a stagger or disorient. Course, I guess I understand the logic. Mages are (supposed) glass cannons, but I never put that durability to the test. I always play a hybrid fighter/caster. (DO:A was a godsend. Battlemaster, plus Arcane Warrior, and you have a soloer) In BG2, NWN, and NWN2, I play a AoE master, with a minor in death (like Finger of Death and Disentigrate). In the NWN series, I added direct damage to my repriotore as well, because of 2 spells: Flame Arrow (4d6 damage per arrow, with no limit on the number of arrows to the level cap- 10 at level 40 in NWN, 7 at 28 in NWN2) and Greater Missile Storm (2d6 damage per missile with a max of 20 missiles at level 20).

On a side note, this reminds me of a debate that raged in the BG2 forums. A couple of people argued a mage was for support. I argued that WARRIORS were the support (and me alone), only in this game, there are no insta-death spells (even insta-death through massive damage). AoEs are likewise nerfed (even with both me AND Merril BOTH stacking Firestorm AND Tempest, we would barely scratch leutenatns, much less bosses).. The only damage done by mages are to my frame rate. That was accecptable to me in DA:O (occasionally crashed the game, but if the game survived, the enemies didn't). Now it's if my computer survives, so do the enemies. I do the same amount of damage with my staff that I do with Winter's Grasp and Horror.

My first play through I went and elemental mage build on normal difficulty and was getting CCC's right and left.  I set my companions AI up to use abilities if targets were brittle.  Such as...

If target is rank vet or higher ........ use condition for next.
If target status is brittle ................. use mighty blow.

Or if target status is staggered ..... Use chain lightning (or crushing prison)

Well since I was the mage I was using crushing prison and the force spell if i saw my targets were staggered.  Also it helps to go into the options and turn on the show status effects over enemy heads thing so you can see when they are affected by something so you know when you can cast your spells on them for the bonus.

If you set up your conditions right you can get CCC's happening multiple times every fight.

Modifié par Artillis22, 24 mars 2011 - 06:24 .