696 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

wowpwnslol wrote...

His main complaint is that mage is reliant on team mates to do damage. Warrior can destroy stuff just fine by himself. Mage needs to take advantage of CCC's to do huge damage. I never felt reliant on team mates playing 2H warrior. With mage it's a necessity.

I've played Hawke as both 2H Warrior and as Mage.  Without team effort, their damage output and impact is about the same - not very good.

A well-built 2H Warrior can self-combo with Cleave + Barrage + Berserk + Frenzy + Reaper + Whirlwind + Killing Blow.  That's a hefty amount of damage, but it's small compared to what he could accomplish with the addition of Haste, Arcane Fortress, Elemental Weapon, and Heal.  With Sunder, Merrill's probably putting in Chain Lightning to assist now and then, too.

GOW's Mage doesn't HAVE any self-combos to speak of.  My Elemental Force Mage can Pull, then Fist, then Gravitic, then Firestorm, then Fireball, then CoC, then Winter's, then Fist again.  After all that, if I need more time to cool down my Elemental Powers, I can use Telekinetic Blast to buy time.  I've tested this on Nightmare.  With the right setup, this combo series will obliterate as many Normals as you can catch in the Pull no problem.  This is easily competitive with a 2H Warrior that doesn't combo.

GOW's build can, what?  Gravitic into Tempest?  That's redundant. You don't need to stun enemies once they're in Gravitic, and Tempest doesn't do as much damage as Firestorm.  Then he follows up with Chain?  To stun the enemies that are already slowed and stunned?  Then what?

His build doesn't even have elemental consistency - he's building Lightning damage but only two of his damage powers are actually Lightning in type.  A focused Elemental Build can take advantage of items that boost both Fire and Cold (or just use items that boost Fire damage, since those are the damage-heavy powers).

A 2H Warrior will do at least 100% again as much damage when he combos.  That's kind of the point.  A Mage will do more than that.  Chain Lightning's multiplier is x6.  Fist's is x9.  In all my playthroughs, most of the damage come from the Mages - even when I was playing the Warrior.

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:

You're talking about the 1250 damage from your Crushing Prison and the 527 damage from Stonefist as if they were something. A proper Mage should be doing more than 1400+ damage to multiple targets every 10 seconds.

That's the kind of damage you can get from CCC'ing a Fist of the Maker, by the way. You should really be doing more than that since you should also have Chain LIghtning.

[Talladarr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

His main complaint is that mage is reliant on team mates to do damage. Warrior can destroy stuff just fine by himself. Mage needs to take advantage of CCC's to do huge damage. I never felt reliant on team mates playing 2H warrior. With mage it's a necessity.

Then you're obviously not using your mages to optimize damage. if you look at the difference comparitively, you'll wonder how yo uever got by without them.

Videos please. You can't provide them becasue they can't exist. Mages in DA2 are simply not capable of the killing speed of warriors. It would be easy for you to refute me IF you could produce the videos.

AND ONCE AGAIN! Are yo ua ****ing broken record? You never once in this thread have shown ANY vids yourself! How are you supposed ot back up your OWN statements when you have no proof for YOUR point of view??

[DKJaigen]

The spells selection of a mage is fine, its their basic attack that needs work. at my highest level a mage can shoot 150 damage bolts from a fire staff with elemental mastery. the warrior can do 200 melee damage each swing and their some very powerful passive and activated ability that increase the damage output of a warrior by a huge margin. cleave sacrificial frenzy and unrelenting blows simply destroy most enemies you come across.

[Roxlimn]

Eh? Basic attacks?!? Who does that?

[Talladarr]

Umm.... I do?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

GOW's Mage doesn't HAVE any self-combos to speak of.  My Elemental Force Mage can Pull, then Fist, then Gravitic, then Firestorm, then Fireball, then CoC, then Winter's, then Fist again.  After all that, if I need more time to cool down my Elemental Powers, I can use Telekinetic Blast to buy time.  I've tested this on Nightmare.  With the right setup, this combo series will obliterate as many Normals as you can catch in the Pull no problem.  This is easily competitive with a 2H Warrior that doesn't combo.

GOW's build can, what?  Gravitic into Tempest?  That's redundant. You don't need to stun enemies once they're in Gravitic, and Tempest doesn't do as much damage as Firestorm.  Then he follows up with Chain?  To stun the enemies that are already slowed and stunned?  Then what?

You sir, seem to be quite incapable of comprehending what you read or more probably just jumped in the thrad with fanboism aglow and did not bother to read the thread first.

My build is a Force Mage build too. Anders has Firestorm and fireball. I have COC and WB and Fist and chain lightning along with spells that you obviously don't ahve becasue you took the entire elemental tree.

His build doesn't even have elemental consistency - he's building Lightning damage but only two of his damage powers are actually Lightning in type.  A focused Elemental Build can take advantage of items that boost both Fire and Cold (or just use items that boost Fire damage, since those are the damage-heavy powers).

You are making false statemnts, sir. My build is not a lightning focused build. I use Final Thought, not Eye of the Strom. I specifically stated in this thread that I don't place much value on staffs that focus on a single element while sacrificing dps becasue that makes all other spell damage lower and also because of the long cooldowns.

Oh, and you weem to be ignorant of the fact that there are only two lightning spells in the game.

Oh, fire is the most resisted element in the game and is resisted by the quanari (like lightning is). As I stated Anders has the fire spells. There are not infinite spell pilcks dude.

Produce your videos of mage Hawke killing as quickly as Warrior Hawke please.

[Roxlimn]

Really? Generally, I only have time to do basic attacks when I'm sweeping a wave. Any other time, I want to be expending an ability - and my build is both underleveled (level 22 at post-campaign) and upgrade-focused.

At that point, it's really moot. It's just cleanup.

The bulk of my party damage always comes from multiple sets of CCCs. Even my boss take-downs are CCC-based. Of all the classes, the Mage is the most friendly to these tactics. His setups are the most reliable (100% Brittle on Normals, at range, with okay cooldowns), and his exploits are the most instantaneous and available, dealing lots of damage to lots of targets.

I've been playing on NM some more, and my Fighters are even harder to use than before, since my Hawke is Elemental. Have to avoid killing my own peeps. Might want to outfit Aveline with multiple Fire Wardings.

I've tried the Berserker Vanguard setup AreleX uses. It's a robust setup, but it takes forever to kill stuff, since you're basically doing it one at a time or two at a time.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard:

You're talking about the 1250 damage from your Crushing Prison and the 527 damage from Stonefist as if they were something. A proper Mage should be doing more than 1400+ damage to multiple targets every 10 seconds.

That's the kind of damage you can get from CCC'ing a Fist of the Maker, by the way. You should really be doing more than that since you should also have Chain LIghtning.

Dude, I was responding to a fanboi post that was attacking me. The person claimed Stonefist was useless for damage which is obviously false. And that that Cp us useless, which is obviously false.

I provided the numbers to back myslef up.

Dude, you just stand around and cast a spell once every 10 seconds?!?!?!?!? Wowzer!!!!

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 26 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[godlike13]

Talladarr wrote...

Umm.... I do?

Me too. At the end, averaging about 200+ damage each strike.

Modifié par godlike13, 26 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[Talladarr]

Ugh, for the time being I'm washing my hands of this. I can only put up wit hso much ignorance and self-righteousness at a time.

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:

I've followed the thread from the start. I've been busy so I only just registered my game. Prior to that - no posting privileges.

You sir, seem to be quite incapable of comprehending what you read or more probably just jumped in the thrad with fanboism aglow and did not bother to read the thread first.

My build is a Force Mage build too. Anders has Firestorm and fireball. I have COC and WB and Fist and chain lightning along with spells that you obviously don't ahve becasue you took the entire elemental tree.

I've reloaded and respecced a bunch of times. I know what ALL the spells do and how they perform, generally speaking. I've even tried to use Spirit Bolt + Disorienting Criticals for kills (doesn't work so well - Rogues don't need the damage assist in general).

Anders may have Fireball and Firestorm, but does he have Pyromancer and Elemental Mastery? Does he have +fire damage items?

You are making false statements, sir. My build is not a lightning focused build. I use Final Thought, not Eye of the Strom. I specifically stated in this thread that I don't place much value on staffs that focus on a single element while sacrificing dps becasue that makes all other spell damage lower and also because of the long cooldowns.

Oh, and you weem to be ignorant of the fact that there are only two lightning spells in the game.

Oh, fire is the most resisted element in the game and is resisted by the quanari (like lightning is). As I stated Anders has the fire spells. There are not infinite spell pilcks dude.

The only damage that matters is how much damage you can squeeze into a CCC multiplier. Any percent boost you can get from a staff is dwarfed by a +500% bonus on combo.

There aren't infinite spell picks, but you aren't maximizing damage even with your choices. How damaging is a lone Stone Fist compared to +60% chance to Brittle for the Archer's Lance combo? No sir, you are not maxxing damage. I don't know what you're doing, but damage isn't it.

[Amioran]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dude, I was responding to a fanboi post that was attacking me. The person claimed Stonefist was useless for damage which is obviously false. And that that Cp us useless, which is obviously false.

Yes, because 520 damage on a SINGLE enemy on nightmare is "a lot", how not?

It seems to me that you watched the shiny numbers above the spell, then thought "oh! 500 damage, that is l33t!" and took it, without either comprehending (and doing a bit of math) that other not so shiny damage numbers on other spells are much stronger when used correctly, and either affect a group.

Good work.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I provided the numbers to back myslef up.

Your "numbers" proves exactly that your build sucks because there's not plan behind them. Stonefist damage is just a waste because it is single enemy and in nightmare it is not much anyway.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dude, you just stand around and cast a spell once every 10 seconds?!?!?!?!? Wowzer!!!!

Sorry but you are really an incompetent. You should have Chain Lighting, 15 seconds, you SHOULD have Fist upgraded, 10 seconds, with your "build". 1 spell every 5.56 seconds.

Modifié par Amioran, 26 mars 2011 - 09:38 .

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard:

You're talking about the 1250 damage from your Crushing Prison and the 527 damage from Stonefist as if they were something. A proper Mage should be doing more than 1400+ damage to multiple targets every 10 seconds.

That's the kind of damage you can get from CCC'ing a Fist of the Maker, by the way. You should really be doing more than that since you should also have Chain LIghtning.

Dude, I was responding to a fanboi post that was attacking me. The person claimed Stonefist was useless for damage which is obviously false. And that that Cp us useless, which is obviously false.

I provided the numbers to back myslef up.

Dude, you just stand around and cast a spell once every 10 seconds?!?!?!?!? Wowzer!!!!

1250 and 527 single target damage spells ARE useless for damage.  You're not backing yourself up there.  You're proving him right!

A single extra Stagger provided by Aveline through positioning before you Chain Lightning will match the 1250 damage your Crushing Prison does.  The mass ownage with Reaper by Fenris following your 100% Brittle CoC targets will smash what's achieved by your Stone Fist, even if it reaches a thousand.

Generally speaking, it takers more than 10 seconds for me to use up all my spells.  Then I have to reposition my Mage for CoC or to avoid other AoEs (like Whirlwind).  The casting animation from Firestorm alone takes a good two seconds.

Spells I cast:

Winter's Grasp
CoC
FireBall
FireStorm
Chain Lightning
Fist of the Maker
Telekinetic Blast
Pull of the Abyss
Gravitic Ring

Generally speaking, I'll go two cycles before I exhaust my spell selection, and usually the encounter is over by then.  Moreover, whatever damge ANY character does with his autoattack is puny.  It's not worth sacrificing positioning for such little damage.

[toxicsoldier038]

Mages are exactly that. Squishy. They deal heavy damage, but they will never stand on par with a warrior, especially at earlier levels. They might be able to take care of a rogue if they are careful. and barely be able to stand toe-to-toe with a mage whos higher in skill. Its just not possible. Even compared to a warrior in this 'test' face off a group of mages with some corpses backing them up and the warrior wont win, not unless you heal yourself. And a rogue wont last against more than a few warrior/rogue mixs. They all have theyre strengths and weakness's.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

I've reloaded and respecced a bunch of times. I know what ALL the spells do and how they perform, generally speaking. I've even tried to use Spirit Bolt + Disorienting Criticals for kills (doesn't work so well - Rogues don't need the damage assist in general).

Anders may have Fireball and Firestorm, but does he have Pyromancer and Elemental Mastery? Does he have +fire damage items?

Anders has the Elemental tree maxed, the Creation tree maxed, and the healing side of his specializaion tree. he only has Panacia up when he needs to.

Oh, and my mage freezes things with winters blast and COC without the mastery due to the force mage spec.

There aren't infinite spell picks, but you aren't maximizing damage even with your choices. How damaging is a lone Stone Fist compared to +60% chance to Brittle for the Archer's Lance combo? No sir, you are not maxxing damage. I don't know what you're doing, but damage isn't it.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I don't have access to brittle or archer's lance. As I stated my party consisted of my mage, Anders, Aveline, and Varric.

Archer's lance certainly has to be directly controled because it is not pary friendly.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 26 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Amioran]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Anders has the Elemental tree maxed, the Creation tree maxed, and the healing side of his specializaion tree. he only has Panacia up when he needs to.

Again, builds must have synergies, both with skills and to the party. It doesn't matter anything at all if Anders had the mastery to freeze if you don't exploit your freezes correctly.

More, to have effective synergy with Anders builded that way, you should micromanage extensively both your mages, plus the warrior and rogue.

There's no synergy between your spells and those of Anders. As I said you just looked at the numbers and thought that it is all that matters. It doesn't make much sense giving CoC to Anders with the mastery if you don't exploit the freeze actively (maybe you exploited the brittle, but here we are talking abou mage damage).

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Oh, and my mage freezes things with winters blast and COC without the mastery due to the force mage spec.

LOL. Force mage spec enhances force/power of impacts in spells, not the effects. WG freezes, yes, but mostly normal/critter level opponents only without the elemental mastery. CoC freezes almost nothing on high levels without that mastery.

Then I don't really get why did you take WG + CoC on your mage if you ALREADY had them on Anders. They are even more a waste then they were before.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dude, I was responding to a fanboi post that was attacking me. The person claimed Stonefist was useless for damage which is obviously false. And that that Cp us useless, which is obviously false. [/quote]

Yes, because 520 damage on a SINGLE enemy on nightmare is "a lot", how not?

It seems to me that you watched the shiny numbers above the spell, then thought "oh! 500 damage, that is l33t!" and took it, without either comprehending (and doing a bit of math) that other not so shiny damage numbers on other spells are much stronger when used correctly, and either affect a group.
[/quote]

Dude, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that there are far fewer spells in DA2 than in DA:O. I have to cast something in between the AOEs and I took the primal mastery. Golemn Fist is a good choice. Again, your ignorance is showing, please learn to play. Oh, and I do have Varric in my party.

[quote]
Your "numbers" proves exactly that your build sucks because there's not plan behind them. Stonefist damage is just a waste because it is single enemy and in nightmare it is not much anyway.
[/quote]

Sorry, dude, but most AOEs are not friendly in NM so yes, you will need to cast some single target spells, not to mention the knockback on Golem Fist. And you will certainly need to knock back enemies from time to time. It is a good spell. Sadly you seem to be ignorant of how to use it.

[quote]
[quote]Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dude, you just stand around and cast a spell once every 10 seconds?!?!?!?!? Wowzer!!!!
[/quote]

Sorry but you are really an incompetent. You should have Chain Lighting, 15 seconds, you SHOULD have Fist upgraded, 10 seconds, with your "build". 1 spell every 5.56 seconds.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Sherlock, I do have chain lightning. Learn to read more attentivelly please. And of course Fist of the Maker is not party friendly and can't always be cast because of that. One has to way matters because there are not infinite spell picks.

Again, no videos = you are merely full of hot air and your personal attacks are merely to try to intimidate me (won't work) and cover up the fact that your arguments have not the slightest bit of merit at all.

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:

Anders has the Elemental tree maxed, the Creation tree maxed, and the healing side of his specializaion tree. he only has Panacia up when he needs to.

Oh, and my mage freezes things with winters blast and COC without the mastery due to the force mage spec.

Er, what?

Elemental Mastery does not increase Freeze Chance. As far as I can tell, neither does Force Mage. Force Mage increases Elemental Force, which is a different thing, as far as I can tell. Elemental Mastery increases Brittle Chance, which is not the same as Freeze Chance. A target can be Frozen but not Brittle, and Brittle but not Frozen.

What you want for damage is Brittle, not Frozen.

It's good that your Anders has his Elemental Tree maxxed. Maybe you ought to tweak his tactics or control him manually.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I don't have access to brittle or archer's lance. As I stated my party consisted of my mage, Anders, Aveline, and Varric.

Archer's lance certainly has to be directly controled because it is not party friendly.

It's actually not that bad. You can put it on Tactics as long as none of your team is standing in a direct straight line with a Brittle enemy and the dwarf - that's a bad place to be.

I'm sure you have access to Brittle through Anders, since he's actually got a decent build (and Hawke doesn't?!?!) I'm getting the idea that you're not doing CCC properly because you think Mages are gimped for damage. If you have two Mages in your party, the bulk of your damage should be coming from Mages.

That said, I don't find your combination very coherent. Anders has got Brittle which presumably Varric can take advantage of, but no one else in the party can. Aveline does Staggers, which you have two spells to exploit (when it should have been three!), but no one else in the party can. Anders has maxxed Creation, which boosts autoattack damage, but then your main warrior is tanking, not dealing damage.

I'm not seeing where your party synergies are focused. Anders, in particular, should at least have Chain Reaction + Rock Armor, if only to capitalize on Staggers if your own Hawk is on cooldown from Chain Reaction (because you didn't upgrade Fist of the Maker!!!!).

[Talladarr]

(Notice how he ignores my posts sayign he hasn't posted any video either)

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Amioran wrote...
Again, builds must have synergies, both with skills and to the party. It doesn't matter anything at all if Anders had the mastery to freeze if you don't exploit your freezes correctly.

More, to have effective synergy with Anders builded that way, you should micromanage extensively both your mages, plus the warrior and rogue.

There's no synergy between your spells and those of Anders. As I said you just looked at the numbers and thought that it is all that matters. It doesn't make much sense giving CoC to Anders with the mastery if you don't exploit the freeze actively (maybe you exploited the brittle, but here we are talking abou mage damage).

Huh? I don't have infinite spell picks so Anders has the fire side for me, as well as doubling up on the cold spells. He also is the party healer. I did not take any healing spells.

Oh, Anders also has upgraded Spirit Strike and dispel from  the Spirit tree.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Oh, and my mage freezes things with winters blast and COC without the mastery due to the force mage spec.

LOL. Force mage spec enhances force/power of impacts in spells, not the effects. WG freezes, yes, but mostly normal/critter level opponents only without the elemental mastery. CoC freezes almost nothing on high levels without that mastery.

Your ignorance of the game is showing dude. FM boosts elemental force too hich means at helps COC and WG.

Then I don't really get why did you take WG + CoC on your mage if you ALREADY had them on Anders. They are even more a waste then they were before.

Because they are great for crowd control and damage. COC and WG will be on all my mage builds.

[Bhaal]

First of all for those who insult others by saying:"omg noob you dont know how play lollololol!", i don't play a single player game for challenge let alone a rpg. I play it for fun, so stop it. If my fully upgraded fire storm with almost %70 dmg boost cant kill a rogue while paralyzed, i can't have fun. DA:O had some very creepy diablo 2 mechanics but DA2 is just ridiculous in this regard. CCC feels simply cheap. Casting a Pull of Abyss then a Gravity Ring then a Fire Storm "IS" a tactic(a very very simply one but it is); while CCC's are simply micro management and mage is the only class that "desperately" needs CCC.

As a class mage is funless, it's almost feels like only has weakness'. Casting Pull of Abyss, Gravity ring then a Fire Storm may sound fine but sending "a" Fenris rather then a fire storm much much (much much) more effective. When i look my abilities i can't see anything impressive: blood magic sucks, entropy sucks, creation doesn't sucks because it's usefull for warrior and rogues; arcane sucks aside 2 talents that support warrior and rogues.

Nobody says mages are gimped for damage but are gimped for non-CCC damage while other classes are not.

Modifié par Adakutay, 26 mars 2011 - 11:02 .

[Amioran]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Huh? I don't have infinite spell picks so Anders has the fire side for me, as well as doubling up on the cold spells. He also is the party healer. I did not take any healing spells.

Just because you don't have infinite spells "doubling" is not the best choice.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Oh, Anders also has upgraded Spirit Strike and dispel from  the Spirit tree.

Another "doubled" spell, with either a wasted upgrade, and a complety waste of a spell to begin with, for BOTH your mages. Good work. Oh, but I forgot, you saw the  200 damage on a single enemy (that means nothing in the grand scheme of damage for a mage) and thought "oh! this is powerful, 200 damage, l33t!" so I must have it on both my casters.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Your ignorance of the game is showing dude. FM boosts elemental force too hich means at helps COC and WG.

Where WG and CoC applies FORCE IMPACT? It is not +elemental damage, genius. Elemental FORCE means the force on the IMPACT, the one that "staggers" or knocks back (if enough powerful), as the one behind Fireball or Firestorm or either Chain Lightning or Tempest, or all the force mage spells (either if there it is physical). Did you see perhaps "Elemental Force: 2x"  (or similar) on WG or CoC?

OMG, you have not the even tinest remote idea of what the hell you are talking about, as always. And you have either the arrogance of telling me MY knowledge is lacking.

Because they are great for crowd control and damage. COC and WG will be on all my mage builds.

A shame that those spells if you have not a plan behind are useful only as the cover on an LP. I know how you created your "build". You just picked the spells looking at their descriptions and what seemed "best" at first sight. You didn't care about syncronicity with the party, nor with the other choices you made.

Why do you even quote warrior videos of people that knows what they are doing is completely beyond me. You could not grasp how those builds are really done (and the REAL concepts behind them) neither if your life depended on it.

Modifié par Amioran, 26 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[Amioran]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Dude, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that there are far fewer spells in DA2 than in DA:O. I have to cast something in between the AOEs and I took the primal mastery. Golemn Fist is a good choice. Again, your ignorance is showing, please learn to play. Oh, and I do have Varric in my party.

Golem Fist is fine in general. However it is a waste in your case, given the poor choices you have made and all the points you wasted. For your build either a single point is like heaven. So, in your case, Golem Fist IS a waste. It is also in general when taken into context of many other good choices and little points to invest on them, but still...

Sorry, dude, but most AOEs are not friendly in NM so yes, you will need to cast some single target spells, not to mention the knockback on Golem Fist. And you will certainly need to knock back enemies from time to time. It is a good spell. Sadly you seem to be ignorant of how to use it.

A) Learn to read what I write: I said that Stonefist is useful PRIMARILY for knockback. Now you act as If I said the contrary. You are really smart, isn't it?
AoEs in nightmare works exactly as they did in DAO. I imagine you were not using many spells even there because there was this "problem", isn't it?

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Sherlock, I do have chain lightning. Learn to read more attentivelly please. And of course Fist of the Maker is not party friendly and can't always be cast because of that. One has to way matters because there are not infinite spell picks.

If you don't know how to play correctly is not anybody elses fault but yours. There are many ways to target AoEs fine or either use them without arming the party/tank, even more than in DAO.

Then, ironically, you even tell me I don't know how to read when you continually change all that I write just to be right. I already told you: it doesn't work with me.

I said "you have CL and you SHOULD have Fist upgraded". What part of "you have" didn't you understand?
OMG, you are becoming pathetic in your attempts to mystify the point at hand just to deny even evidence.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Again, no videos

And again no videos of a warrior "destroying" everything without two mages behind. Things must be taken into context, Holmes, or you fail from the start, as you always do.

Modifié par Amioran, 26 mars 2011 - 12:04 .

[Roxlimn]

Amioran:

It is not necessary to personally attack Grumpy Old Wizard, particularly because it makes your case appears weaker, not stronger. If you can provide bare facts, that will be the strongest argument - they stand for themselves. Telling him he doesn't know the game might feel good, but it degrades the power of your argument, because it implies that the put-downs are necessary to make the point, even when they are not.

Adakutay:

All classes require micromanagement at the higher difficulty levels. If you watched AreleX's vids, he's essentially just controlling one dude - the ultimate micro. Apart from that, he uses very specific builds on all his allies to minimize micro requirements, and so that they support his one micro'd dude appropriately. Those tactical settings are VERY important.

I've built an Elemental Mage - supposedly the weakest of the designs. I even went Elemental first, and have one offensive spell outside Elemental and Force. Even on Nightmare, I can kill Rogue Critters with something as cheap as a single Fireball. Carta Assassins can't be killed even with a Firestorm, but that's why they're called Elite enemies. Elites are the specialty of Rogue PCs - they perform the best against such challenges.

Fenris is NOT more effective than a Firestorm. He'll use more abilities and more stamina to deal the same amount of damage, the mobs will be able to attack, and he'll need to go from mob to mob, so it'll take time. For the same result, a Mage Hawke can click and set spells into the same area three times, and then kick back and watch the fireworks. Heck, you don't even need Pull of the Abyss! Pull is for small area effects like Cone of Cold/Deep Freeze, Scatter/Disperse, and Shattering Shot.

All classes need CCCs to deal lots of damage. AreleX makes sure to take advantage of it (you can clearly see the mass HP wipes in his vids). You should, too.