696 réponses à ce sujet

[Stammwuerze]

Amioran wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Only if you suck as a player.






Again, show a mage on Nightmare tearing it up like this.

Oh, the person who said I want mages in plate wielding swords and using no mana is lying. I'm not a fan of gish builds.

The first video is not a 2hander.

The second video is just a guy that takes a lot to kill groups of critters while going around.

Listen guy, you tell others to learn how to play but it seems to me the only one that doesn't know how to play a mage is you.

All the encounters in the second video would have been ended in just a second with a good specced mage.

First wave. Pull + Disorient by a rogue + VWB. Goodbye.
Next wave (the stronger) Gravitic + Stagger + Paralyzing Hemorrage. Goodbye.
Third group, Pull + Stagger + Chain Lightning. Goodbye.

All the encounters in that (second, because the first is neither a 2h warrior) video CAN be done by a Mage much faster. If you want to quote examples at last quote the right ones.

Would you be so nice to upload that in a video?
Also, what ability from a warrior can 100% stagger a whole group?

[Gage123]

Stammwuerze wrote...

Amioran wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Only if you suck as a player.






Again, show a mage on Nightmare tearing it up like this.

Oh, the person who said I want mages in plate wielding swords and using no mana is lying. I'm not a fan of gish builds.

The first video is not a 2hander.

The second video is just a guy that takes a lot to kill groups of critters while going around.

Listen guy, you tell others to learn how to play but it seems to me the only one that doesn't know how to play a mage is you.

All the encounters in the second video would have been ended in just a second with a good specced mage.

First wave. Pull + Disorient by a rogue + VWB. Goodbye.
Next wave (the stronger) Gravitic + Stagger + Paralyzing Hemorrage. Goodbye.
Third group, Pull + Stagger + Chain Lightning. Goodbye.

All the encounters in that (second, because the first is neither a 2h warrior) video CAN be done by a Mage much faster. If you want to quote examples at last quote the right ones.

Would you be so nice to upload that in a video?
Also, what ability from a warrior can 100% stagger a whole group?

Mighty blow I believe staggers...if the warrior hasn't already killed the whole group while the mage was setting it up.

[Tomark]

shield bash staggers multiple enemies.

[Amioran]

Stammwuerze wrote...
Would you be so nice to upload that in a video?
Also, what ability from a warrior can 100% stagger a whole group?

Why I should do a video for a thing so basilar?

Shield Pummel can stagger a whole group if they are bunch togheter. Naturally it doesn't work always, but the video showed really basic encounters and in that case it always works.

[Graunt]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Why are you lying about me?

Oh, so now giving an opinion about something is a lie?  I said it seems like you don't even play the class, because all you've been doing is whining in literally every thread you post in.  And I looked at your profile earlier and it didn't show anything for DA2.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Graunt wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Magnius wrote...

Look
lets just give them what he wants! Mages can now wear plate, use
swords, cast while moving and no longer have to use mana!

This class is already in the game: 2handed warrior.

This class also enjoys instagibbing teammates.

Only if you suck as a player.






Again, show a mage on Nightmare tearing it up like this.

Oh, the person who said I want mages in plate wielding swords and using no mana is lying. I'm not a fan of gish builds.

I like how these same videos keep getting reposted as if they are "proof" of anything at all, other than the fact that an SnS Warrior can do pretty decent damage.  This has exactly what to do with Warriors killing teammates? Where in these videos do we see areas with lots and lots of CLUSTERED ENEMIES in narrow areas that your teammates love to hover around?  Oh yeah, we don't, because these are taking place in wide open areas.

shield bash staggers multiple enemies.

So does Assault with Claymore active, as well as the Claymore auto attacks.  This is especially easy when haste is up. 

Modifié par Graunt, 20 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Zan Mura]

 As people have said, whether or not the mages are fine, the OP's "test" proves nothing anyway so it's pointless. There are games like City of Heroes for instance with its controller / dominator class, where a class is completely gimped on its own, but will *always* be the most useful one to have around provided they had ANY backup at all.

It can be argued that as a support class, mages surpass warriors and rogues easily. Aside from the chests and traps, it's not that hard to make do without a rogue in your party. Already proven that you can use 2h instead of a tank, or tank and no 2h by making up for the AoE with controlled spells instead. But without a mage with CC and heals, now that would get tough.

What I can agree on, is that mages *should* be more independent than they are. As I said before, with the typical RPG's 15 minutes of fame philosophy, the problem is that the other classes get their 15 minutes all the time. Mages don't. Mages really never shine as the heroes of the fight, as their only role is to help the warriors and rogues to shine even more. On the other hand, even without help a tank will still be a tank, a 2h will still wipe the floor clear of 90% of the mobs you'll encounter completely on his own. A rogue will still be the only one capable of singlehandedly soloing down lieutenants, other rogues, mages and do 90% of the entire party's damage against the bosses. The only possible way to make mages stand on that same center stage as those two, is by putting in way more trouble than it's worth.

You can artificially craft the circumstances by choosing the right spells, the right fight with the right conditions, and using the entire rest of the party dedicated to the task to produce a scene where the mage will use 10 seconds and 15 spells with combos from other classes to create mighty AoE's that will obliterate the enemy. That will look cool, and some will argue that it's what makes mages even. Until that 2h comes in and solos those same mobs with 2 abilities, no help, no special conditions required, and in less than 5 seconds worth of time.

I believe the mages are balanced gameplay -wise. But I believe they're not at all in accordance with the lore. These mages that we play belong into another kind of world, where magic is a vital and subtle force influencing the background, but where physical might of muscle and power will always be superior. In a world like DAO & DA2 where mages are feared and locked away in towers for being the proverbial nukes that could go off at any minute and cause extreme damage to their surroundings.... in such a world, the mages we get to play are sad, weak, and not at all intimidating. The enemy mages, now they are another matter entirely. But that doesn't really help the cause, does it?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Graunt wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Why are you lying about me?

Oh, so now giving an opinion about something is a lie?  I said it seems like you don't even play the class, because all you've been doing is whining in literally every thread you post in.  And I looked at your profile earlier and it didn't show anything for DA2.

Throwing in "it seems like" doesn't get you off the hook. I could say "It seems like you are a child rapist" and "it seems like" would not make it any less of lie assuming you don't in fact rape children.

Oh, there is DA2 stuff in my profile. Thre is my level 20 mage.

Click

Oh, and I haven't whined in all my posts so you told another lie. I have expressed my opinions and fanbois of course show up to lie about and insult everyone who does not say the game is perfect as is. I have merely pointed out an imbalance in the game.

I could list quite a few of my posts where I have made no complaints about the game, but here is one for instance, and that is enough to prove your statement to be a lie. Now, stop lying about me.

Click

[Zan Mura]

Hmm, people actually check each other's profiles for pointless things like that? God, and I always thought such features were useless. It must be the same people who think post counts or votes count for more than what someone is actually saying in their message. Glad not to please myself. In fact, I'm off right now to make doubly sure that there's absolutely nothing of any substance in my profile.

[templar706]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Why are you lying about me?

Oh, so now giving an opinion about something is a lie?  I said it seems like you don't even play the class, because all you've been doing is whining in literally every thread you post in.  And I looked at your profile earlier and it didn't show anything for DA2.

Throwing in "it seems like" doesn't get you off the hook. I could say "It seems like you are a child rapist" and "it seems like" would not make it any less of lie assuming you don't in fact rape children.

Oh, there is DA2 stuff in my profile. Thre is my level 20 mage.

Click

Oh, and I haven't whined in all my posts so you told another lie. I have expressed my opinions and fanbois of course show up to lie about and insult everyone who does not say the game is perfect as is. I have merely pointed out an imbalance in the game.

I could list quite a few of my posts where I have made no complaints about the game, but here is one for instance, and that is enough to prove your statement to be a lie. Now, stop lying about me.

Click

Thats a...strange way of putting it.
I have seen you whine plenty by the way. Just because you dont think something is true doesnt make it a lie.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

templar706 wrote...

Thats a...strange way of putting it.
I have seen you whine plenty by the way. Just because you dont think something is true doesnt make it a lie.

I would not say someone was lying for a difference of opinion on a game. But when they make false statements about me personally, yes they are a liar.

No, it is not whining to point out imbalances in a game. But I've seen whining fanbois whine about anyone suggesting some feature needs to be rebalanced.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 20 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

[SuicidalBaby]

as if your dismissals are some how more warranted. you cry dude, its cool. let off that steam, god knows I would be frustrated too if I couldnt figure out how not too suck. btw, you should spend more time on your lvl whatever makes you feel you have enough experience to talk about mage and actually finish the game than waste your worthless opinion here on "fanbois." But please, continue dismissing those that have actually finished the game at least once.

[Baiolit]

My apologies for how many times this has been stated.

OP I think you have clearly misunderstood how mages are supposed to work in this game. You are thinking of mages as an individual class, and in that respect you are correct, they do not match the warrior or rogue in terms of engaging enemies alone. What I don't think you are allowing yourself to understand is that they were never meant to be as such.

Mages can synergize with other classes, more than a rogue or warrior can with each other. While warriors and rogues cooperate via debilitation methods and aggro transfer, in the meanwhile a mage can debilitate, weaken, nuke, and debuff the enemy while healing, buffing and protecting their own group. The other two classes might be able to do that to a certain extent, but they can't do as fluently or as effectively. Mages are only as good as the person playing them is intuitive.

[Graunt]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I would not say someone was lying for a difference of opinion on a game. But when they make false statements about me personally, yes they are a liar.

Me: Boy, Grumpy Old Wizard sure seems like he's not ever happy and he couldn't have picked a better name to live up to.

Grumpy Old Wizard: Stop lying and spreading false accusations!

Oh, there is DA2 stuff in my profile. Thre is my level 20 mage.

Click

Jesus, no wonder you're crying so much, you're missing one of the best spells in the game and pretty much everything you grabbed from Arcane is bad, and Horror isn't worth it except on Assassins, but you can just Petrify them, or better yet...use the spell you didn't even take.  It also looks like you took Spirit Healer just for more mana...

I can imagine how bad it must have been for you on the High Dragon fight, and I wonder how many times your Mage died.

Hmm, people actually check each other's profiles for pointless things like that?

It seems to update achievements and skills good enough, but it's terribly slow updating gear.  Pretty much 3/4 of what's in my current profile was sent to the vendor.

Modifié par Graunt, 20 mars 2011 - 03:19 .

[Jman5]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Video, not a snapshot, please.

Give me 40 bucks and I'll be happy to show you how to play mage.

[Gloxgasm]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Kite and freeze. Very easy fight.

[Graunt]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I literally have 2987 mana (technically I can't ever run out unless I make a really stupid mistake).  My heal costs me 4.2 health to cast and gives back 150...until I decide to upgrade it.

Modifié par Graunt, 20 mars 2011 - 04:01 .

[Rieverre]

Kiting does not a valid point make. Especially since 'Easy' still means 'pew pew pewing at the boss for 15 minutes straight'. That is not 'fun' by any stretch of the imagination.

[Graunt]

Rieverre wrote...

Kiting does not a valid point make. Especially since 'Easy' still means 'pew pew pewing at the boss for 15 minutes straight'. That is not 'fun' by any stretch of the imagination.

A Rogue does it similar with Stealth run away until they get Assassinate, and even then they aren't killing everything around them with a single hit.  Soloing is tedious regardless of the class, and despite what the people with lucky charms in their eyes would have you believe, a Warrior has to kite often too.  Good thing the game isn't based around one character -- but oh no, that must mean the center of the group is just really terrible since he can't get : www.youtube.com/watch

[Gloxgasm]

I do wish mage had a better burst damage option. I'd kill for assassinate when there are 2+ archers in an encounter. From Origins Id request spell might and miasma to be sure. Also less mobs beed to be frost immune. Its just annoying.

[Officer Nice]

Mages are supposed to be a support class any way.

[Chunkor]

OP has absurd logic, when it comes to mages. Mages have always been fragile support characters that fall when alone and destroy when used with other characters. DAO changed this with the Arcane Warrior, but when you play other party based RPGs, you can't tank through games with just a mage.

Also, when warriors stagger enemies left and right, the 900% damage that mages do is far from useless. You can destroy groups of mobs with a simple CCC with Fist of the Maker and take off tons of damage from bosses. No, they're not going to be able to solo quests like Warriors and Rogues, but they're going to dish out the same amount of damage over a much larger area of enemies, when you play them right. The devs didn't "gimp" the mages. They simply force players to play them how they were supposed to played in the first place: support roles. You people are acting like this is new to mages.

Modifié par Chunkor, 20 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[Chunkor]

Double post. Whoops!

Modifié par Chunkor, 20 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[Gloxgasm]

Just finished the winters encounter on nightmare solo. 10 archers, 2 assassin, ton of melee and 2 captains. Was a pain but its done.

[themaxzero]

Graunt wrote...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I literally have 2987 mana (technically I can't ever run out unless I make a really stupid mistake).  My heal costs me 4.2 health to cast and gives back 150...until I decide to upgrade it.

Not that I'm arguing the math but if your in Blood mode aren't you immune to regular healing?

[Graunt]

themaxzero wrote...
Not that I'm arguing the math but if your in Blood mode aren't you immune to regular healing?

Yes, but that's what Aveline is for.  You just eat 95 health from her and give it back for literally free every single time you drop below 75% health and she's above 50%.  You'll gain back a lot of your health and give her back 40% (so she gains 20% over what she had -- or more if you upgrade it).  

You can also just get down to 50% health, cast the heal on yourself so that it uses health for the cast and pop out of Blood Magic to heal yourself back up if you didn't want to spend any mana.  Then while you're waiting for the BM 20s cooldown to be back up, spend your 120 or whatever mana that you have left.

Fenris is especially good for this if you end up using him instead of Aveline.

Modifié par Graunt, 20 mars 2011 - 04:58 .