155 réponses à ce sujet

[tetracycloide]

I see you never recommend +attack gear, even for Act 1 or against the Ancient Rock Wraith or The Bone Pit Dragon. Why is this? In the videos there were a fair number of glancing blows for about 10% damage. I thought +attack gear, in addition to improving hit rates, also reduced the chances of glancing blows. I don't think I know the internal workings of the mechanics as well as you do though so I was wondering if the decision not to stack attack was because attack doesn't reduce glancing blows at all, because the glancing blow % can only go so low and you already bottomed it out, because stacking +attack reduced the glancing blow % too little to be worth doing, because it was better to gain a measure of survivability from attribute boosting items instead of any amount of damage, or perhaps for another reason I hadn't even thought of?

Huge thanks for doing all this work and sharing it.  It's really nice to see you back here doing the same thing for Dragon Age II that you did for Origins.

Some other wonderings:

In your dual wield video with Marker's Kiss and Shadow's Claw combo vs. orsino, is there more to scoring 900-1000 auto-attacks than just your equipment or is it really as simple as using those two weapons?

Modifié par tetracycloide, 30 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[IN1]

Why is this? In the videos there were a fair number of glancing blows for about 10% damage. I thought +attack gear, in addition to improving hit rates, also reduced the chances of glancing blows

In retrospect, you are absolutely right. As you can see, my starting point was stacking +crit dmg with Arlathan (this idea worked admirably well in DAO), while now I think I should have been pumping Dex/investing into +attack gear/running with the Adder for the whole Act I (well, probably till the very end of it, anyway). If I ever decide to do another archer playthrough, that's what I'm going to do.

In your dual wield video with Marker's Kiss and Shadow's Claw combo vs. orsino, is there more to scoring 900-1000 auto-attacks than just your equipment or is it really as simple as using those two weapons?

He's weak to spirit, and I'm level 26 with loads of +attr and +crit dmg gear, so no... Full spirit DW combo is just obnoxiously powerful vs spirit-weak enemies. As you can see, I had more trouble with 3 Rage Demons than with 15 various Templars with my alt setup.

Modifié par IN1, 30 mars 2011 - 04:34 .

[Psython]

Nice work, a legendary feat to be sure! I'm just not sure that spending 30+min kiting on some of these battles would be fun for me personally. I am wondering if IN1 thinks its possible to solo this game with a mage or warrior. I think nightmare might be impossible but maybe on a lower difficulty it could be doable.

[tetracycloide]

Do you happen to have any hard data on glancing blow rates? All I have is conjecture.

[IN1]

No, I haven't looked into this aspect of game mechanics yet.

[Abhorash]

using +attribute gear how many points you need to invest in magic and willpower? its a good idea use the cambion armor with valiance for that?

[Dead End FRS]

I have a question about the spirit DW videos. I used the same gear (except weapon runes where in different places) and basically the same talents. I just can't get to the numbers shown in these videos. Even with 100/100 dex/cun I barely reach 1k, more like 850-950. I never used Maker's Sigh (to avoid any bugs).

Is there anything I may have missed, do the weapon runes really make such a big difference or is there just something broken with my character?^^

[IN1]

Dead End FRS wrote...

I have a question about the spirit DW videos. I used the same gear (except weapon runes where in different places) and basically the same talents. I just can't get to the numbers shown in these videos. Even with 100/100 dex/cun I barely reach 1k, more like 850-950. I never used Maker's Sigh (to avoid any bugs).

Is there anything I may have missed, do the weapon runes really make such a big difference or is there just something broken with my character?^^

1. Well, first of all, I am surprised  Mind you, 850-950 is absolutely fine, don't know what are you complaining about  That's exactly the mark I typically hit: 800-900 with Maker's, 900-1000 with Shadow's. Granted, it's a bit more vs Orsino, as he's permanently debuffed. But take a look at my Templar video, for example.

2. Did you debuff Orsino with Wounding Arrow, Mark of Death and Hex of Torment? Also, are your enemies Blindsided (not actively engaging you)?

3. What level are you and how many companions do you have? (Yes, it can make a difference vs archbosses)

Anyway, you are performing exactly as you should. Maybe you lack a couple of factors to absolutely maximize your damage output, but you are as close to maximum as it gets, mate  Overall, animation speed is more valuable for a spirit DW rogue than big-ass damage, so prioritize that. I mean, hitting for 750 with +100% attack animation speed is better than hitting for 1000 with +50% attack animation speed, after all.

PS: Double-checked my dmg numbers in the vids, as I was honestly amazed/amused by your question and thought for a moment my memory doesn't serve me well anymore  The highest I hit a Templar was 1057 with Shadow's, the lowest was 670 with Maker's. In short: there is nothing wrong with your build, character, game version, etc. It's just my videos look so intimidating and awe-inspiring you have apparently forgotten what the actual damage numbers were! 

Modifié par IN1, 02 avril 2011 - 05:10 .

[Dead End FRS]

I still can't figure out a reason. I recreated the attributes you had from attack/defense values, rearranged the weapon runes and ajusted my level (was 24 before). Still nothing. My absolut biggest hit was 800, most likely through tex of torment, normally I'm around 400-600. It's just very, very odd, two characters, same stats, same gear, same buffs, but a 50% difference in damage.

Special attacks show the same thing. In your templar hall video you use Vendetta for 11k, mine only deals 5.5k ... ^^

Modifié par Dead End FRS, 02 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[IN1]

Dead End FRS wrote...

I still can't figure out a reason. I recreated the attributes you had from attack/defense values, rearranged the weapon runes and ajusted my level (was 24 before). Still nothing. My absolut biggest hit was 800, most likely through tex of torment, normally I'm around 400-600. It's just very, very odd, two characters, same stats, same gear, same buffs, but a 50% difference in damage.

Special attacks show the same thing. In your templar hall video you use Vendetta for 11k, mine only deals 5.5k ... ^^

Well, I don't use any secret techniques. There is also no way to cheat for additional damage (primary attributes are hard-capped at 100, secondary parameters are derived directly from primary ones + gear). If it's the same weapon setup and the same conditions I mentioned, I'm honestly out of ideas.

Hmmm... Actually, I've seen several people mentioning a weird glitch: their Hawke gradually deals less and less damage. You know, as per Isabella attack speed bug/Sebastian damage resistance bug/shield armor rating bug, only with damage output. Don't know if that might be the cause, and perhaps it's my character that is glitched, not yours (after all, I did a lot of 'illegit' stuff to test things out -- including force-respecializing to a warrior and back -- so maybe I have broken my Hawke somehow?).

Anyway, I have become paranoid, and you have convinced me to create another Hawke for AreleX's DW guide (I was asked to contribute a sub-section about maximizing alpha strike) If my current character is glitched, and he should deal less damage, let the people get the realistic numbers (hell, it's pretty impressive even if he deals 600, not 800, per hit!), not some odd stuff they won't be able to re-create... If yours is glitched, I'd get the same results I get now and laugh at your damage-challenged Hawke, sir! It's an interesting issue, so I'll keep you posted, anyway.

I must add several players that followed my guide reported similar, or, indeed, higher damage output than mine (here, for example). Please understand I'm not saying you are doing something wrong: I'll definitely look into the issue, and, if needed, will record new videos to display adequate damage output. I'll have to record some vids for AreleX anyway, so thanks for a heads up. 

Modifié par IN1, 02 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Dead End FRS]

Tested with a rogue of my first playthrough, he produced comparable numbers. A little lower, because of lack of equipment, but still very similiar.

Not that it really matters, at least with a party. The numbers are still so high, that it really doesn't matter how much damage you really deal. I'm going to compare elemental archer numbers now, maybe it's just something wrong with the spirit damage portion or resistances. Nothing poped up in the savegame editor tho.

[IN1]

Not that it really matters, at least with a party. The numbers are still so high, that it really doesn't matter how much damage you really deal. I'm going to compare elemental archer numbers now, maybe it's just something wrong with the spirit damage portion or resistances. Nothing poped up in the savegame editor tho.

Totally agreed about the 'real' damage numbers: they are impressive either way. Still, I don't want people to get disappointed when they score a 100k Assassinate instead of 120k Assassinate

Given it some more thought: I think runscript chargen force-respecialization back and forth I've done in Act III might have screwed up my Hawke. For example, the game respecialized the warrior Hawke back to rogue, but 'forgot' to toggle Destroyer off (it's officially off, but...). That would account for a significant increase in damage output... Think about it: -50% damage resistance on every arrow/dagger strike!

Well, anyway, I'll record a bunch of videos for AreleX during this week with a fresh character, so I'll swap the glitchy ones in my guide. Thanks for being so pedantic and vigilant   Indeed, the end-game elemental damage output is so tremendous, I would not have paid attention to any irregularities without your comments.

Post the results of your archer testing in this thread ASAP, pls. I suspect I'll probably need to re-record the newer (post force-respecs) elemental archer videos. Yes, yes, it's ultimately immaterial if he deals 1600 or 2000 per arrow as opposed to 500 with the best physical setup, but I don't want my readers to get desperate failing to reach the damage output demostrated.

 

Modifié par IN1, 02 avril 2011 - 03:31 .

[Dead End FRS]

I finished my tests. I used your video of the Last Straw dock fights as a reference and get the same results as with sirit dw. My damage seems to be 40-50% lower. Obviously the problem is at my end, since as you said, others have reported similiar or higher numbers.

Well, got to figure out where the problem lies, but since it doesn't seem to be contained to a single character, it may be best to reinstall the game first. But maybe it's the -50% damage diaologue choice, after all it's a BioWare game, never ending wonders and excitment

[IN1]

Dead End FRS wrote...

I finished my tests. I used your video of the Last Straw dock fights as a reference and get the same results as with sirit dw. My damage seems to be 40-50% lower. Obviously the problem is at my end, since as you said, others have reported similiar or higher numbers.

Well, got to figure out where the problem lies, but since it doesn't seem to be contained to a single character, it may be best to reinstall the game first. But maybe it's the -50% damage diaologue choice, after all it's a BioWare game, never ending wonders and excitment

Don't jump to conclusions As stated, it may be that nasty respec bug (both Maker's Sigh and runscript chargen are catastrophically glitchy). I seriously suspect I may have Destroyer (not necessarily Destroyer, but it sounds logical, math-wise) activated as innate ability after the force-respec :/ It would account for +40-50% damage in most cases. I'm going to check my pre- and post- respec save files for consistency with gff4editor. I'll pm you with the results.

Thanks for your testing, much appreciated. Obviously, I want this guide to be as adequate and glitch-free as possible.

[IN1]

Now it's official: _the problem is at my end_. Never try those runscript chargen commands, at least not on your main character. I cannot say if it is Destroyer or something else (I think it is, but it may as well be upgraded Might: gff4editor did not help to discover where the problem lies), but my rogue's damage _spiked_ by 30-40% after the force-respecs rogue -> warrior -> rogue. I haven't paid attention to the issue, since I was tinkering with the end-game warrior setups in-between and obviously did not remember what my previous damage output typically was (it was very high anyway).

Thus, the 'legit' vids are the early ones: Bloodragers in Kirkwall, Finding Nathaniel, probably some more. By the way, that 217.5k vs Orsino with a full party is also totally legit (pre-respec). I will definitely re-record the later videos (mostly Final Straw) once I get to Act III with a fresh character.

Please note it does not make elemental archer non-viable or not worth it: elemental damage setup still >>> physical damage setup by a huge margin. It's just the difference is not that tremendous.

I'll put a note in my walkthrough about the glitch (to be removed as soon as I replace the relevant videos with the new ones).

All the credit for the wonderful discovery goes to the vigilant Dead End FRS. All the credit for the obnoxious glitch goes to the broken respecialization system in DA2.

[Dead End FRS]

I'm glad that's sorted out

[IN1]

Dead End FRS wrote...

I'm glad that's sorted out

Glad you won't have to re-install the game It's quite time-consuming, hehe.

By the way, the minor damage output troubles aside, I hope you enjoyed playing elemental rogue. Yes, alt weapon setups are a must, and yes, he looks utterly silly in those robes, but the damage output is worth it, I suppose

Modifié par IN1, 02 avril 2011 - 05:13 .

[ripstrawberry]

Once I killed the high dragon I switched off to the jackal and pretty much did what you're doing here but I didn't really use the robes. Nice to have discovered that somebody else is doing this. Difference though is my solo is a level 50 game on nightmare. I did use the requisite companion for their companion quest though.. About the only time I didn't solo. Anyways my question w/ this setup is what do you think provides higher dps bonuses: higher + crit dmg or lower + fire dmg. I'll be trying out the robes in a reload. I'm assuming you're using +attributes gear to equip those. Can you also list which gear I should look for equipping the robes and what my mag and will should be?

I love the fact by the way that all this fire dmg makes my decoy deadly. Hehehe.

[ripstrawberry]

basically i need some help in picking between +crit dmg gear and +fire dmg gear: Specifically:

helm w/ +7% crit dmg vs +6% w/ fire dmg
gloves w/ +8% crit dmg vs gloves w/ +4% fire dmg
armor w/ +17% crit dmg vs robe w/ +24% fire dmg

belt w/ +9% crit dmg vs belt w/ +5% fire dmg

Which 2 rings should I use from this group to generate maximum dps:

ring w/ +9% crit dmg
ring w/ +5% crit dmg
ring w/ +24% fire dmg
ring w/ +5% fire dmg

[IN1]

ripstrawberry wrote...

basically i need some help in picking between +crit dmg gear and +fire dmg gear: Specifically:

helm w/ +7% crit dmg vs +6% w/ fire dmg
gloves w/ +8% crit dmg vs gloves w/ +4% fire dmg
armor w/ +17% crit dmg vs robe w/ +24% fire dmg

belt w/ +9% crit dmg vs belt w/ +5% fire dmg

Which 2 rings should I use from this group to generate maximum dps:

ring w/ +9% crit dmg
ring w/ +5% crit dmg
ring w/ +24% fire dmg
ring w/ +5% fire dmg

I cannot really answer this question until you post your stats (total fire damage bonus vs total critical damage bonus modifiers). As a rule, rogues' crit dmg bonus is already sky-high, so, naturally, it's much more beneficial to equip +X% elemental dmg gear.

E. g.: your el. dmg is 50, your crit range is 250. Let's assume you can opt to equip either +50 el. gear or +50 crit range gear. Obviously, 100*250 is much better than 50*300. That's it, in a simplified form. Remember those are multipliers and do your own math. 

[IN1]

I love the fact by the way that all this fire dmg makes my decoy deadly. Hehehe.

The bad news is Decoy's explosion is considered an independent damage source (like Walking Bomb) and, as such, is unaffected by your + X% fire dmg bonus. It does scale with your level, though, so it should deal adequate damage, anyway.

[ripstrawberry]

I don't have my stats at the moment but i'll get to it soon. Anyways how about the mag and will values I need for the robe. I'm planning to use gear that add bonuses so I won't have to waste too many points. Tell me if I missed anything:

32 mag and 32 will requirement- 64 points total

base mag- 10
base will- 11-->43 points needed left

rune of valiance on gloves of the champion- +7 mag and +7 will-->29 points needed left

vestments of the mystic- +2 will-->27 points needed left

stealth boots- +2 mag and +2 will-->23 points needed left

cap of the antivan king- +1 mag and +1 will-->21 points needed left

enchanted silverite belt- +1 mag and +1 will-->19 points needed left

dull brass amulet- +1 mag and +1 will
urzara's tooth- +1 mag and +1 will
tranquility- +1 mag and +1 will-->any of these 3; 17 points needed left

the fallen star- +1 mag and +1 will
ring of resilience- +1 mag and +1 will
ring of no wishes- +1 mag and +1 will-->any 2 of these 3; 13 points needed left

I spend those 13 (8 and 5 since I have higher will) so my base mag should be 18 while my base will should be 16? Too bad decoy works that way. Seemed like the fire dmg bonus affected it in my experience.

[IN1]

I spend those 13 (8 and 5 since I have higher will) so my base mag should be 18 while my base will should be 16?

Something like that, yes. I think the calculations are correct.

Too bad decoy works that way. Seemed like the fire dmg bonus affected it in my experience.

I've tested it with no fire damage bonus, then with fire damage bonus artificially set to +300%. The damage was identical. 

[ripstrawberry]

So no better +mag/will source than the ones I listed right? Was kinda hoping there was a staff I could equip but the CC staves have no mag or will bonuses. I also tweaked the pre-buff items list a bit because I thought I'd rather waste more points in will than mag for my archer since IMO more stamina us useful than extra magic resistance since killing mages is always my 1st priority. If you disagree, I'd like to hear why. I also did my own calculations and it seems like I should always choose the fire dmg item over the +crit dmg item given my stats even if the crit dmg bonus is higher but I'd let you double-check (did re-spec to be able to equip the robes already):

*only equipped items for base is stealth boots, jackal and an ornate amulet that gives +7% fire dmg + 22 stamina for base since there is no +crit dmg amulet. total in parenthesis is w/ +fire dmg gear.

str: 12 (21)
dex: 91 (100)
mag: 18 (29)
cun: 91 (100)
will: 20 (29)
con: 16 (25)-->spare points went here. had 4 left over. Thought it would be useful for decoy dmg.

fortitude: 2 (11)
critical chance: 91%(100%)
magical resistance: 8% (19%)
critcal dmg: 268%-293% if obscured (286%-311% if obscured)
stamina: 197 (276)--> take 35-40% away for stacked speed and precision/power
health: 155 (200)

damage: 174 (179)
attack: 100/95/80 (100/100/87)
defense: 80/60/40
armor: 0

+fire dmg: +23% (+91%)

pre-buff items: vestments of the mystic, gloves of the champion w/ valiance rune, circlet of the dreamer, urzara's tooth, the fallen star, enchanted silverite chain belt

*note I don't have the facebook items so no dura's blue flame thingy. T_T

So help me pick now which combination nets max dps for the elemental archer:

helmet: +6% fire dmg or +7% crit dmg
armor: +24% fire dmg or +17% crit dmg
gloves: +4% fire dmg or +8% crit dmg

belt: +5% fire dmg or +9% crit dmg
ring: +24% fire dmg or +9% crit dmg
ring: +5% fire dmg or 5% crit dmg

I know that's more info than you'll need but I was bored. XD Anyways if I missed any items except the facebook ones that add more crit/fire dmg do let me know. I'm pretty much obscured all of the time due to a variety of sources: shadow veil + stealth/decoy, impenetrable fog, smoking arrow and chameleon cloud. Thanks for the help and info! I remembered you helped me some on the wikia.

[ripstrawberry]

^
Oops. Forgot to mentioned the robes of unblemished cleanliness had a valiance rune in it so that's why my stats remained the same even if I removed the gloves of the champion w/ the valiance rune.

A related question: So elemental archer>physical archer every time? Since I'm playing on level 50 I've gotten some powerful random bows and armor. My superior mariner's longbow has 145 base dmg, +17% crit dmg and +11% physical dmg. I have 1 leather armor that gives +11% physical dmg and another that gives +17% crit dmg. I have 1 dwarven leather helm that gives +7% crit dmg and 1 that gives +4% physical dmg. Wouldn't a physical archer be able to stack up to an elemental archer w/ gear like that? I assume stacking more of the +physical dmg modifier since that's the lower number right? Are armor values really that higher than elemental resistances?