59 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

My first was a mage playthrough. And I was disappointed. Then I did the templar playthrough and it left a bad taste. I think the mage ending is the better one despite the fact that Hawke doesn't become Viscount and leaves. You help the mages fighting a lost case, which is in my opinion more honorable than siding with the predefined winner. The circle mages are the victims in the last battle. At least the ones who are not bloodmages or abominations.

[RubiconI7]

Meredith and Orsino are both at fault. Neither are blameless...I would say both had noble intentions but both of their reactions were results of each others action. There are also objective reasons in this argument also and can be seen from "The Enigma of Krikwall" of how the whole city is built on top of a sea of blood.

Orsino has always been pretty liberal with the mages under him as the White Lily Killer seems to be a friend of Orsino. In this sense Meredith has the right to be worried and in this worrying sought out the Idol which turned her more zealous and crazy than before...

One needs to admit Meredith is a hardliner from the beginning and pressed Orsino harder than others. Counterintuitively, Orsino reacted by being more open or caring to his mages. These mages, faced with the hardliner and sometimes corrupt templars, naturally turns to vegeance. In most cases, blood magic. This then triggers Meredith to react and become even harder on the mages...

You really cannot pin the blame on anyone here...These tension had been built up for who knows how long. Then Anders swoops along and blow up Chantry...now Meredith can pin the whole thing on the mages and Orsino naturally think it would be unfair to punish all of them...

And there goes the domino effect..

Modifié par RubiconI7, 19 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[Obsydian]

I kinda wish there was an 'in between' option. I actually just had this arguement with my roommate. I believe fully that people with enough power to call elements at their will and to play wiht people's lives should be controlled. I believe that when handled correctly, the Circle is a rather wonderful and NECESSARY thing. I think that the quote "with great power comes great responsibility" is necessary here. And not everyone can handle that responsibility. At least not without guidance.

However, I also don't think that the Templars necessarily do things the right way. I think they are heavy handed and kill needlessly.
After the things that are done via blood magic in this game (my mother's death, Merrill's mirror obsession, demons, etc) I just couldn't side with the mages. I wish I could. But they took things too far. There's just too many "evil" ones and too much blood magic.

I'll play through multiple times, admittedly. And I will side with them when I romance Anders... but... neither is really a good option.
Blood magic, in my opinion, is NEVER an option. Ever. That's like saying that turning to the Dark side, just a little bit, is ok. Once you've gone blood mage you really can't go back.

I played a chaotic good rogue... who really did try to do the best for everyone. I mean, I've even got a 100% friendship with both Anders AND Fenris. And I've had both in my party the entire time. I've done what I would do in each situation, and have not been at all disappointed. The only character who dislikes me is Merrill... cause I yelled at her for being a blood mage.

*sighs* oh BioWare. you do such wonderful things with your storylines. This is so so so true to REAL LIFE. this is exactly what would happen were this a RL situation. And thats why I think its wonderful.

also, bad typing is bad and i apologize for that.

[SkittlesKat96]

It was bad that a bunch of mages had to resort to blood magic including Orsino but Orsino was a shady person anyway and knew a lot about blood magic plus the templars had almost forced it, in the end while the mages in Kirkwall didn't get it lucky at least all the other circles in Thedas are being effected and mages everywhere are getting freedom.

[Legbiter]

I only sided with the mages because I thought that otherwise I'd be condeming Bethany to death. Mages should be organized into Circles with templar oversight. To serve as Universities for Thedas as well as an ace-in-the-hole for the odd Blight/Qunari invasion.

[Zing Freelancer]

I would blame Bioware and their sponsor for ruining a perfectly fine game...
But then again, through entire story DA tries to force the idea of "MAGIC IS BAD, MAGES ARE BAD!" on you.
But my "clean" (non blood magic) mage kinda missed the point. Fireballs, ice walls and a lot of lyrium.

[cglasgow]

Bethany was the major deciding factor for my Hawke last time as well.   Outside of that; he'd been fairly pro-mage in acts 1 and 2, but when act 3 turned into bloodmage-o-rama, and the very same mages he'd helped escape came back as crazy abominations and kidnapped his sister, he was getting fed up with their crap.  Still, Bethany was in the Gallows, so he had to go.

But this time around I've got Grey Warden Carver, and I told Anders 'GTFO I never want to see you again after you killed that poor mage girl' in act 2, so, we'll see how I roll. Maybe templars.

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 01:45 .

[lx_theo]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Orsino doesn't represent every mage; if you changed your mind, then you really didn't believe in mage freedom in the first place. Some mages are genuinely interested in blood magic, but 3/4 of the time we see blood magic being practiced, it is in direct response to templar pressure.

Heh, your character should be acknowledging that not every mage is bad anyways if you've sided with Mages.

[Obsydian]

Legbiter wrote...

I only sided with the mages because I thought that otherwise I'd be condeming Bethany to death. Mages should be organized into Circles with templar oversight. To serve as Universities for Thedas as well as an ace-in-the-hole for the odd Blight/Qunari invasion.

Yeah, I worry for Bethany too... but at the same time...  i agree with the rest of what you say. 

[Northern Sun]

I would have preferred an ending where Hawke builds a second Anders-bomb, destroys the gallows killing everyone, and then leaves with the LI.

Modifié par Northern Sun, 20 mars 2011 - 01:57 .

[Sideshow Jed]

Annulling the Circle for the acts of an apostate abomination is stupid, unreasonable, and wrong; no matter how badly said Circle might need it. So, no.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Northern Sun wrote...

I would have preferred an ending where Hawke builds a second Anders-bomb, destroys the gallows killing everyone, and then leaves with the LI.

Sounds fun.  Count me in!

[Cohesion]

Personally, I can understand Orsino ultimately embracing blood magic, feeling, as he did, that he was backed into a corner; the promise of more power would be a powerful lure to any mage, especially when fighting for one's life, and the quest is called "The Last Straw", after all. In all honesty, I took greater umbrage over the fact that he transformed into a Harvester. I was hoping they'd introduce it into DAII in a manner fitting with the Golems of Amgarrak.

At least, that was until I read a theory that the Harvester is a type of Abomination, which fit with the Nexus Golem's comment that "Amgarrak tapped the blood, which was spilt within the Stone." Coupled with the comments that the Veil is thin in Kirkwall due to its bloody past - thereby allowing for the presence of powerful demons, such as Hybris and Xebenkeck, to corrupt the already-oppressed magi - and the discovery by the Band of Three that the very city streets were designed by the Magisters to approximate an arcane glyph, it's no wonder that so many of the Kirkwall magi turn maleficar; they're pretty much doomed by proximity. In my mind, Orsino is simply the most notable figurehead of that plight.

Modifié par Cohesion, 20 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[Beaynid]

honestly orsino going psychotic blood mage abomination on me was kinda expected.  i thought he was a douche to begin with so when he went schizo it didnt phase me much.  I played mage friendly the whole game for only 1 reason and orsino going nutso didnt fit into that.  Bethany was my favorite companion and i was constantly trying to protect her, so i am good to mages and will be damned if ill let meredith slaughter them, which would include bethany.
There are many things bioware screwed up in da2, but the one big thing they got right was bethany.  she just pulls my big brother heartstrings and got me to still want to help and save mages, even after every mage i met is or becomes a psychotic blood mage bent on killing me and others.  so good job with that bioware

[Obsydian]

Northern Sun wrote...

I would have preferred an ending where Hawke builds a second Anders-bomb, destroys the gallows killing everyone, and then leaves with the LI.

Yes please.    (+15 friendship)

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Raltar wrote...

Considering 99% of the mages in Kirkwall resort to Blood Magic when I decide to help them, I can't see myself siding with the mages again.

This. You spend the whole game with people trying to convince you not all mages are bad but in the end they still stab you in the back even if you help them. They want to prove they can be trusted and aren't monsters to be whispered about in taverns. They go about doing exactly what was expected of them.

[Silveryne]

cglasgow wrote...

Bethany was the major deciding factor for my Hawke last time as well.   Outside of that; he'd been fairly pro-mage in acts 1 and 2, but when act 3 turned into bloodmage-o-rama, and the very same mages he'd helped escape came back as crazy abominations and kidnapped his sister, he was getting fed up with their crap.  Still, Bethany was in the Gallows, so he had to go.

But this time around I've got Grey Warden Carver, and I told Anders 'GTFO I never want to see you again after you killed that poor mage girl' in act 2, so, we'll see how I roll. Maybe templars.

Whoa, hey, you can kick Anders out? I'm really curious to know how that turns out. I automatically did the nice-guy thing both my playthroughs so far (a sarcastic but nice rogue, and an uber-nice blood mage O.o) and went "ANDERS DON'T BE A DICK AND KILL THIS GIRL" and then was nice to him about it.

My first playthrough, I sided largely with the mages throughout with some exceptions (I told people to go back to the circle because my character, while supportive of mages, was absolutely terrified when they started doing blood magicks). However as soon as Anders blew up the damn chantry I went: "Right. It doesn't matter if they're blood mages or not. It's time for some damage control." For me, the ending where you try to protect the mages from Meredith even when you're helping her is the most optimal ending... Even if you don't actually become viscount apparently. <_<. I guess a job well done is its own reward.

[SpEcIaLRyAn21]

If only they kept the persuade skill we could have used it to resolve an 'impossible situation'. What I mean is I wish there was a way to peacefully or somewhat peacefully resolve the situation. Like maybe Meredith gives in towards the end and when Orsino says he'll do anything to stop the templars from killing them all. (Helping them search the tower for blood mages, letting the templars lock them up, etc.)

Lets face it though there is good and bad in everyone. Whether they are a mage or even a Grey Warden. For every blood mage there is there is another mage out there who is innocent. To condemn them all isn't right. I stand by my decision to support the mages. However I am going through the game again as a mage and I plan to side with the templars. Imagine the irony in that.

[Kattack]

I feel bad for the mages. Besides, my sister was a mage in my first play through. I was saving her and getting her out of there NO MATTER WHAT.
I liked the mage bit in the sense that I got to beat up the blood mages and the templars, and by the time Orsino turned into a monster I was kind of in the mindset of, "whatever." I think Anders' actions made me hit such a bad low that after that, I couldn't feel any more betrayed.
So, Orsino turns to blood magic? Whatever, *kills him.*
I kind of dislike Meredith, it'll be hard to side with her (and I'm playing a character that will, I just won't like it).

[Big I]

I did not change my mind about mages because of Orsino. One man's bad decisions do not condemn all others.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 20 mars 2011 - 03:53 .

[Soapbubbles]

I like that at least Bioware didn't give us the 'happy magical third skip off into the sunset with everyone' choice. As much as I wanted it. For the most part, I sided with the Templars because I felt Anders had tied my hands and mages were screwed anyway. I was also tired of constantly defending mages, being one myself, and then they all use blood magic and just prove Fenris/the Templars' point.

[TexasToast712]

LobselVith8 wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

Specifically when Orsino turns to blood magic.

So the actions of one man should condemn every man, woman, and child in Kirkwall who has magical ability?

I didn't waiver as an apostate Hawke in siding with the mages, because my decision had nothing to do with Orsino at all. I've wanted the emancipation of mages since the Hero of Ferelden (the Surana Warden) asked for the Circle of Ferelden to be given it's independence in my canon run, and Queen Anora agreed (and I'm assuming her husband did, too, from what he says to Knight-Commander Meredith).

Ugh......here we go again........

[Tempest]

Orsino. A very tragic look at mages either being pressured into "slavery" or death. Yeah, like this subject was never on and off. What happened to Orsino was very expected. I was actually more surprised by what the demon looked like than the fact he was pressured into blood magic. Couldn't he look a little "cooler" considering he is a very high ranking mage? He was just a gelatinous mess of walking flesh.

[Talogrungi]

Yup.

I was Pro-Mage from the start; partly because of Bethany (who ended up in the Circle) and partly because they seemed to be the repressed underdogs with which any right-thinking hero would ally himself against the evil totalitarian regime. The Mages were presented as the good guys, with the Templars being the bad guys led by the insane, power-mad despot.

I changed my mind.

While I don't support "The Tranquil Solution", it's clear that Mages can't be left to govern themselves when so many are willing to fall prey to demons at the slightest provocation. The practice of Blood Magic can not be permitted, and if ensuring that requires cloistering all Mages away in a Circle tower under Templar scrutiny, then so be it. It's protecting them as much as it's protecting everyone else.

That said; Templars should never be permitted cruelty. They are supposed to be protectors.

I can see DA3 being Tevinter (Mage) vs Orlais (Templar) .. if so, I'll be allying with the Templars and pushing for mediation and peaceful resolution (probably with a large sword).

[The Big Nothing]

The bottom line is that the Right of Annulment is genocide, and genocide is not cool.

Also, that is my slogan when running for viscount: "genocide is not cool".

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 20 mars 2011 - 09:03 .