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[john-in-france]

Chylise wrote...

Took Rivalmanced Sebastian into Legacy again, but didn't bring Bethany, I brought Varric and Merrill. At the end of the "Malcom's Will" quest, Sebastian did have an extra line asking Hawke about how she felt about what her father did, but no other lines than that. Maybe there's more lines if Hawke is the only surviving member of her family?

john-in-france wrote...

Judy-in-France:
Legacy SPOILER

Friendmanced Sebastian. Templar centric warrior F!Hawke, from endgame save.

Grey Warden Bethany, Fenris also in party.

Bethany: So you're a Prince?
Seb: That and more too, due to the love of a good woman.
Bethany: Sorry I missed the wedding.
Hawke: It was beautiful.
Bethany: And, what came after it... (sarcastic voice)

No smoochies....wahhhhh! Lots of cutscenes with Sebastian though, I counted 5 in my run through.

Now I want that wedding....grrrr.

Ooooo, that dialogue is different than what I got with Friendmanced Sebastian and Bethany! Bethany never mentioned the wedding, just told Hawke "Right, you're 'married', don't screw it up."

Methinks maybe banter changes depending on Hawke's attitude? I usually play Witty Hawke.

I think the banter is linked to some very complex dialogue exchanges, not quite as simplistic as friend vs rival in the main game.

[john-in-france]

Eranelle wrote...

john-in-france wrote...

Judy-in-France:

Yes, Sebastian seems to come into his own in fan fiction, Aquila is fantastic! fanfiction.net and the Dragonage Kinkmeme.

One day someone is going to get that line to work again at the end of the game, and of course word games again, remember Varric is telling the tale to Cassandra. I guess Hawke is safe in Starkhaven myself...

Speaking of Aquila. I have Lywinis' blessing to do comic pages of it. 
http://diwafernandez...quila-ch01-p01/ 



I try to draw one page a week since I've been busy with work and some RL stuff.

LOVE IT! I wish I could draw, you have a beautiful ability to express emotion in black and white

I don't suppose I could interest you in drawing a front page for 'The Prince and the Seeker'?

[Ellyria]

john-in-france wrote...
I think the banter is linked to some very complex dialogue exchanges, not quite as simplistic as friend vs rival in the main game.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think that the nature of the banter is linked to Hawke's dominant attitude (Diplomatic/Witty/Aggressive). I can't really see Aggressive/Diplomatic Hawke saying "With a name like Corypheus, I expect him to go 'mwa ha ha' at some point" like my Witty Hawke does. I think that only the romantic banter is linked to the rival/friend aspect, hence why we're getting references to Hawke and Sebastian's marriage for Friendmance, and Bethany flirting with Sebastian and Carver having no reaction at all for Rivalmance.

[SilentK]

Chylise wrote...

john-in-france wrote...
I think the banter is linked to some very complex dialogue exchanges, not quite as simplistic as friend vs rival in the main game.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think that the nature of the banter is linked to Hawke's dominant attitude (Diplomatic/Witty/Aggressive). I can't really see Aggressive/Diplomatic Hawke saying "With a name like Corypheus, I expect him to go 'mwa ha ha' at some point" like my Witty Hawke does. I think that only the romantic banter is linked to the rival/friend aspect, hence why we're getting references to Hawke and Sebastian's marriage for Friendmance, and Bethany flirting with Sebastian and Carver having no reaction at all for Rivalmance.

Whew.... this will take a little work to figure out what one has to do to get a specific outcome   =)   ohh well. Nothing like a scientific approach    =)     good thing I have a few FemHawkes

[syllogi]

Welp, I finally beat the game with my templar friendly rogue, and started Legacy, bringing along fully rivaled Sebastian and friendly Circle Mage Bethany, and all I gathered from the one banter between them was that they were kind of flirty and Hawke didn't want to hear it. So Legacy acknowledges the chaste marriage, but at this point it seems like the rivalry flirting path still seems to lead nowhere, like Aveline and Varric. SIGH. It's still nice that he got some lines in this.

[Ellyria]

TeenZombie wrote...

Welp, I finally beat the game with my templar friendly rogue, and started Legacy, bringing along fully rivaled Sebastian and friendly Circle Mage Bethany, and all I gathered from the one banter between them was that they were kind of flirty and Hawke didn't want to hear it. So Legacy acknowledges the chaste marriage, but at this point it seems like the rivalry flirting path still seems to lead nowhere, like Aveline and Varric. SIGH. It's still nice that he got some lines in this.

Maybe the Rivalmance banter still leads to nowhere because Sebastian and Hawke's "relationship" isn't really a relationship yet, since Sebastian said he wants to retake Starkhaven first. But that doesn't stop Hawke from being jealous at Bethany's interest, hence why she interrupts her sister's flirting! Hawke was promised a Prince, and a Prince she better have! 

Hopefully other DLCs (especially if there's a Starkhaven DLC!) will acknowledge the Rivalmance better. It never hurts to be optimistic... most of the time! 

Meta Ray Mek wrote...

Wait, Legacy actually acknowledges the Sebastian romance?

And it's kinda fluffy if your Friendmanced him (I can never do Rivalmance)?

... Well, I was tempted to sell DA2, but now I may have to reconsider.

Yeppers, if you Friendmanced Sebastian, he married Hawke at some point before Legacy starts. (I'm not sure if it's only in a post campaign save or not, I've only used post-campaigns so far.)

Did anyone else notice how Bethany doesn't say the marriage is chaste, but Carver does? Heck, Bethany seems to be pretty jealous about it!

Modifié par Chylise, 28 juillet 2011 - 12:42 .

[randomcheeses]

Legacy party banter, including Sebastian.

Modifié par randomcheeses, 28 juillet 2011 - 01:09 .

[Blessed Silence]

Just wanted to add a picture of Sebastian with my female healer Hawke Estella.  I had her friendmance him.

Pretty much, Estella is not a fighter, as she does her best to work out problems peacefully, but don't think she's a pushover.  Seeing how Sebastian can be a Brother in the Chantry as well as fight for his beliefs made her realize she can too.

[Blessed Silence]

Just found this topic through another member (wow been 4+ months since the game came out ...) and looking through.  Hope you all don't mind!

rak72 wrote...

I'm a sucker for a man with a fiery passion burning beneath his calm exterior.

Ohohoho yessss .... one thing that I liked about him, besides his accent, is that when push came to shove, Sebby took those proverbial gauntlets off and bared his true feelings.

lywinis wrote...

Any man with convictions is going to get me. Also the reason why I romanced Anders.

But Sebastian gets so delightfully flustered when you flirt with him. "Um, I think I need to pray. A LOT." I laughed and kind of did an "awww" noise. I was briefly ashamed of myself.

That is so much fun romancing him ... isn't he ADORABLE!

Riona45 wrote...

Still, at least the other romances have more of a plot, come to a conclusion that makes sense, and are acknowledged elsewhere in the game by other characters. From what I understand, whatever relationship you have with Sebastian basically occurs in a vacuum. Again, this isn't me trying to bash the character so much as expressing shock over how poor his romance is (although to be fair, I get the impression that he was never meant to be more than a tease). It asks for quite a lot investment/sacrifice on the part of the player (for example, you can never flirt with anyone else, even three years before he joins your party) and results in basically no payoff.

Your comment here really is a mirror to what I felt like when I got towards the end of Sebby's romance yet never felt I got a ... good enough conclusion to it after killing Anders for him.  Shame really.  I do hope BioWare didn't throw his teasing romance in as an afterthought.

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

Sebastian's story is not finished yet. Don't worry.

Been 4 months since this was stated ... stilll waiting!

namedforthemoon wrote...

Also, I really wish that if my Hawke had accepted Seb's proposal for a chaste marriage, that I could have seen Hawke takes vows next to Seb, like how Seb was talking about. That would have been sweet. And then when Anders blew up the Chantry, we would have been married in the eyes of the Maker and...Maybe Sebastian would stay with Hawke in Varric's narration. 

You cannot fathom how angry I was when I got no narration for my fem!Hawke and Sebby after that playthrough.  I just GLARED at my pc and was really .... really ... ticked off.  All that I went through and got bupkis! 

[will continue with comments from page 8 on later!]

[R2s Muse]

randomcheeses wrote...

Legacy party banter, including Sebastian.

Heh, thanks for posting this. Hilarious. I'm surprised at the kinda snobby Seb comment (07:58), about what would his parents think at him "traipsing around the Deep Roads like a common soldier" who has no concern for his station. He's mostly commenting on his parents, I guess, but the way he says "common" is kinda damning. Guess he has to show his blue blood sometime.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 28 juillet 2011 - 03:11 .

[john-in-france]

Judy-in-France

Chylise wrote...

Did anyone else notice how Bethany doesn't say the marriage is chaste, but Carver does? Heck, Bethany seems to be pretty jealous about it!

Yes, I did notice. It may inspire some entertaining fan fiction

I still think of chaste marriage as just no sex outside of marriage...and I checked the codex (for the bazillionth time), no vow of celibacy in there. Then I checked the short story, and no vow of celibacy in there either. The Codex only says that he will not sleep with Hawke during the game (read main DA2) and his romance is not finished yet. So all my fanfiction is based around that type of Sebastian, not trying to seduce him. Remember that Templar are also Chantry Brothers and Aveline was married to one...

Also has anyone else got that classic two liner during Act 3.
Fenris: So I hear you are engaged?
Sebastian: Yes.
I think that there may have been more lines but I clicked on a door and all went silent, so if you heard the rest of it do let me know!

[Chignon]

R2s Muse wrote...

randomcheeses wrote...

Legacy party banter, including Sebastian.

Heh, thanks for posting this. Hilarious. I'm surprised at the kinda snobby Seb comment (07:58), about what would his parents think at him "traipsing around the Deep Roads like a common soldier" who has no concern for his station. He's mostly commenting on his parents, I guess, but the way he says "common" is kinda damning. Guess he has to show his blue blood sometime.

I actually thought it was bitterness towards his parents and their expectations of him rather than snobbiness.

[Ellyria]

john-in-france wrote...

Judy-in-France
Yes, I did notice. It may inspire some entertaining fan fiction

I still think of chaste marriage as just no sex outside of marriage...and I checked the codex (for the bazillionth time), no vow of celibacy in there. Then I checked the short story, and no vow of celibacy in there either. The Codex only says that he will not sleep with Hawke during the game (read main DA2) and his romance is not finished yet. So all my fanfiction is based around that type of Sebastian, not trying to seduce him. Remember that Templar are also Chantry Brothers and Aveline was married to one...

Also has anyone else got that classic two liner during Act 3.
Fenris: So I hear you are engaged?
Sebastian: Yes.
I think that there may have been more lines but I clicked on a door and all went silent, so if you heard the rest of it do let me know!

The only problem I have with the term "chaste marriage" is that it seems like an oxymoron almost. I would understand if Sebastian asked Hawke to be in a chaste relationship/engagement, meaning they wouldn't have sex until marriage, but he specifically says "chaste marriage", which seems to imply a religious marriage with no sex, ever.

From what I remember about what Gaider said about the Templars, they can get married as long as their spouse can support themselves and not rely on their templar spouse for everything. Also, didn't Leliana say in DAO that there were different types of vows? There's also this line from Sebastian's short story: "My complaint is with my parents, for sending me here as punishment, for forcing me to a vow of celibacy to protect my brothers' children from any rival heirs I might beget." Which seems to imply that Brothers/Sisters of the Chantry take a vow of celibacy.

I've never heard that banter between Fenris and Sebastian. In fact, I've never heard any banter at all that alludes to Sebastian/Hawke's romance, not counting Legacy.

[R2s Muse]

Awesome, here's a video of a lot of the banters (some overlap with the other link above). The one at ~18:01 seems to the one people are referring to for the Bethany-rivalmanced (or no-romance?) Sebastian convo. Can anyone confirm? Where Beth flirts ("so...you're a prince?") and Hawke interrupts ("Bethany...good to have you back!").

@Chignon - yeah, you must be right about that line... it just took me aback when I first heard it.

[Ellyria]

R2s Muse wrote...

Awesome, here's a video of a lot of the banters (some overlap with the other link above). The one at ~18:01 seems to the one people are referring to for the Bethany-rivalmanced (or no-romance?) Sebastian convo. Can anyone confirm? Where Beth flirts ("so...you're a prince?") and Hawke interrupts ("Bethany...good to have you back!").

That would be the same convo I got with Rivalmanced Sebastian and Warden Bethany, although Hawke said "Nothing, just interrupting. Mmm?" instead of "Good to have you back!" (Hawke's response is probably dependent on Hawke's personality, methinks.)

[R2s Muse]

Argh, OK, someone on the Fenris thread posted the talk table. Which has some of the convo branching for the Carver "I'm not your brother" marriage banter. With my best guess, it looks like an aggressive Hawke says something like "Aww. Would you feel better if I slept with him? Because I totally would. Right here." LMAO:lol:

{6257939}
Is something troubling you, brother?

{6257940}


{6257941}


{6257942}
I'm not your brother.

{6257943}


{6257944}


{6257945}
I'm not familiar with Fereldan tradition, but I married your sister. I <emp>believe</emp> that makes us brothers.

{6257946}


{6257947}


{6257948}
I know what you claim. "Chaste" vows. Placeholder at best.

{6257949}
A "chaste marriage." Some invention of yours, no doubt.

{6257950}


{6257951}


{6257952}
I'm happy. Play nice with your new brother.

{6257953}
Carver, please be happy for me.

{6257954}
Aww. Would you feel better if I slept with him? Because I totally would. Right here.

[R2s Muse]

@Chylise - hmm, this table is a bit hard to read, as it seems there's lots of branching for this particular convo. But, it looks like Hawke's three responses are:
{6257801}
Back off.

{6257802}
Good to have you back with <emp>us</emp>.

{6257803}
Nothing, just interrupting. Mm?

heh heh. Guess that at least makes Hawke's intentions clear!

[john-in-france]

Chylise wrote...

john-in-france wrote...

Judy-in-France
Yes, I did notice. It may inspire some entertaining fan fiction

I still think of chaste marriage as just no sex outside of marriage...and I checked the codex (for the bazillionth time), no vow of celibacy in there. Then I checked the short story, and no vow of celibacy in there either. The Codex only says that he will not sleep with Hawke during the game (read main DA2) and his romance is not finished yet. So all my fanfiction is based around that type of Sebastian, not trying to seduce him. Remember that Templar are also Chantry Brothers and Aveline was married to one...

Also has anyone else got that classic two liner during Act 3.
Fenris: So I hear you are engaged?
Sebastian: Yes.
I think that there may have been more lines but I clicked on a door and all went silent, so if you heard the rest of it do let me know!

The only problem I have with the term "chaste marriage" is that it seems like an oxymoron almost. I would understand if Sebastian asked Hawke to be in a chaste relationship/engagement, meaning they wouldn't have sex until marriage, but he specifically says "chaste marriage", which seems to imply a religious marriage with no sex, ever.

From what I remember about what Gaider said about the Templars, they can get married as long as their spouse can support themselves and not rely on their templar spouse for everything. Also, didn't Leliana say in DAO that there were different types of vows? There's also this line from Sebastian's short story: "My complaint is with my parents, for sending me here as punishment, for forcing me to a vow of celibacy to protect my brothers' children from any rival heirs I might beget." Which seems to imply that Brothers/Sisters of the Chantry take a vow of celibacy.

I've never heard that banter between Fenris and Sebastian. In fact, I've never heard any banter at all that alludes to Sebastian/Hawke's romance, not counting Legacy.

Not in the short story I read by Heppler, the current one on the DA2 website. The codex entry for Sebastian in the last 3 years of DA2 reads:


Though he has not renewed his vows or returned to his duties as a brother, Sebastian proved a faithful servant to the grand cleric over the past three years. As Kirkwall grows ever-more turbulent, the grand cleric relies on Sebastian to be her eyes and ears in the often-dangerous secular world. Whether he will again devote himself to the Chantry or return to Starkhaven is still anyone's guess, though Sebastian was heard saying he will not leave Kirkwall as long as both the Champion and the grand cleric need him.

So technically, no vow of chastity!

Modifié par john-in-france, 28 juillet 2011 - 06:28 .

[Spideywulf]

I was about to start a new game and try to romance Sebastian. After reading thru the posts I dont think it would be worth it.

[syllogi]

R2s Muse wrote...

@Chylise - hmm, this table is a bit hard to read, as it seems there's lots of branching for this particular convo. But, it looks like Hawke's three responses are:
{6257801}
Back off.

{6257802}
Good to have you back with <emp>us</emp>.

{6257803}
Nothing, just interrupting. Mm?

heh heh. Guess that at least makes Hawke's intentions clear!

LOL, yeah, my sarcastic Hawke got the middle line.  I wouldn't want to be too mean to Bethany, since she apparently doesn't know that there's anything between Hawke and a rivaled Sebastian (even if it is all in my poor rogue's imagination).

I understand why there wouldn't be more for the rival dialogue.  I guess I was just hoping for confirmation that the game considers the relationship a bit more than just the type of flirting you can engage in with Aveline or Varric.  
I can't see my rogue, who is sarcastic and not a big fan of the Chantry, going the friendship route.  Not that she'd care about his title or position, but, much like Carver, she'd be quite dubious about the idea of a "chaste" marriage.  Phooey.  

[Ellyria]

R2s Muse wrote...

Argh, OK, someone on the Fenris thread posted the talk table. Which has some of the convo branching for the Carver "I'm not your brother" marriage banter. With my best guess, it looks like an aggressive Hawke says something like "Aww. Would you feel better if I slept with him? Because I totally would. Right here." LMAO:lol:

Hah, I love it! I imagine both Sebastian and Carver's face would have that whole ...Awkward expression. 

john-in-france wrote...

Not in the short story I read. The codex entry for Sebastian in the last 3 years of DA2 reads:


Though he has not renewed his vows or returned to his duties as a brother, Sebastian proved a faithful servant to the grand cleric over the past three years. As Kirkwall grows ever-more turbulent, the grand cleric relies on Sebastian to be her eyes and ears in the often-dangerous secular world. Whether he will again devote himself to the Chantry or return to Starkhaven is still anyone's guess, though Sebastian was heard saying he will not leave Kirkwall as long as both the Champion and the grand cleric need him. 

So technically, no vow of chastity!

The line about his parents forcing him into a life of celibacy is in the short story that Jennifer Hepler wrote, which is on the Exiled Prince addon page.

As for the codex entry, technically, yes, Sebastian broke his vows when he sought revenge for his family, but the thing is that HE considers himself still tied to his vows. Remember in Act 2's QB when Hawke flirts with him, he says "If I broke my vows to be with you, I wouldn't be worthy of you", so he believes that his vows are intact. As someone said many many pages back "The only thing holding Sebastian back is Sebastian." So long as he believes that he is still bound to the Chantry and his vows, he won't sleep with Hawke.

Modifié par Chylise, 29 juillet 2011 - 03:15 .

[syllogi]

Meta Ray Mek wrote...

And ffs, people, a chaste marriage isn't invalidated/not a "real" marriage just because some people choose not to do the deed for one reason or another. I, for one, like the idea of a chaste marriage (I'm asexual and thus uninterested in sex, period. My Hawke is by proxy, so she's cool with Sebastian's celibacy. And yes, I know the two aren't the same. Still... Problem solved!) so... yay.

I was so pissed they didn't acknolwedge the romance in the end game. Ugh. That was a real turn-off for me.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like Sebastian at all if I didn't at least see some charm and "romance" in his vows, so I think it's very cool that Legacy acknowledges it.  I also don't know about the whole "loophole" in the wording thing.  If he took a vow of celibacy, and proposes a chaste marriage, I'm guessing those things go hand in hand.

Personally, though, even though I love "Joan of Arc" female martyr type characters in fiction, I can't see Hawke that way.  So it's hard to go the friendship route with Sebastian.  Hawke, to me, is sarcastic and silly and a bit bawdy in her behavior.  She was raised by an apostate and is a "free thinker".  So she respects Sebastian's faith, but she doesn't completely share his views.

And that's *just* my character.  Part of the reason I enjoy reading fan fiction is to see other people's versions of the player character.  If I can read a fic and the writer makes me feel for their Hawke, even if it's a completely different kind of Hawke than my own, then I'm impressed.

[Meyne]

R2s Muse wrote...

@Chylise - hmm, this table is a bit hard to read, as it seems there's lots of branching for this particular convo. But, it looks like Hawke's three responses are:
{6257801}
Back off.

{6257802}
Good to have you back with <emp>us</emp>.

{6257803}
Nothing, just interrupting. Mm?

heh heh. Guess that at least makes Hawke's intentions clear!

I got the interrupting line. Ok, so I was flagged for Seb romance after my last relationship ended rather poorly (did what had to be done, heard that "remarkable woman" from Seb before the final battle which made me wonder, but then Varric said Anders was always with me which made me go, "Great, now I'm being haunted").  One door closes, another opens?  Hmm....

Unless I was interrupting because I was being protective big sis.  Guess I could see that.